some of you may remember that savages's book mentions razor balls
well the idea of putting a hunting broad head together with a gland has intrique me for a while. Today I was tooling up for archery season. I ran into some old broad heads with broken screws
well here is my first attempt wieghs three ounces is three inches long http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/razorball11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/razorball.jpg

I couldn't wait flys like a dream. Used my one peice leather sling
Only problem  I had was it went though my styraphoan
deer target
the 2nd verson ways six ounces and the heads screw in and out either to be feild points or broad heads
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/slingglands.jpg

Cool! How does it fly? I mean like a football or like a ninja star?

well now with about a hundred throws later. I can tell you now it flys like a football. In fact putting my old styafoam target in front of the one I usaly use. it looks like a little imbedded football in the foam.
I like it so well Rummage though my old broad heads (I have a couple of coffe cans full after twenty years of bowhunting)and made two more
I have another idea I think I can modify a old egg sinker
mold to accept a couple of inserts that way I can screw and unscrew the broad heads to replace and repair
next question will these really work on big game?

I pitch "footballs", too, & know how far & fast they go.  There's no doubt that your double broadhead, leaded to a total weight of (say) 3-4oz could bring down big game, .....IF you could hit it in the right spot.  

That's a nasty looking piece of ammo, and should be very effective at normal Wisconsin bowhunting ranges.

Nope, no doubt at all that it would work fine.  

mgreenfield

Do the broadheads damage your sling at all?  Amazing, greenfield, amazing. :o

well the only sling I have used my"razor balls " in have been one solid strap of leather. but no damage to report to the sling. the one thing this ammo has really done is push me harder to increase my acuracy.
If I ever get where I can consistantly put three in the pie plate at fifty yards. hmm lets just say things might get interesting then

So, you just juse a leather strap and the bullet is grabbed in the waist?  Then it spins, like a rifle?

I LOVE IT!

I never thought of doing anything like this.

I did it with snow.  Just using my hands, I would make
it fly, but not like a football, it was broad side to the wind.  My finger would spin it in the narrow waist as I threw it.  It would climb, like a rising fast ball, only more due to low density of snow.

I must try this sometime... is this bettor than sling?

oops mis- communication, sorry  knollslinger
my sling is one peice leather about 48 inches long
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/Untitled-TrueColor-07sling.jpg

Three in a pieplate at fifty yards: things would get VERY interesting. ;D  I wonder how hard it would be to get the sling into a legal hunting weapon.   ::)

Thats a pretty cool creation.  That thing looks pretty lethal to me.  Go right into a big deer.

If you can get that good with on I say go for it, but if you can't it may not be worth a bad shot on the animal and it suffering. Also, achers have practice tip so they don't have to dull their broadheads. Do you think you could come up with a "practice tip" for your sling that would be about the same weight and be able to fly about the same as your broadhead?

well gun once i modifie theegg sinker mold i would say yes too the practice tip
but i my self keep some beat up braodheads to practice with i think i would do the same here

I can just see myself trying to figure one of these things out and sending it deep into the trunk of a tree... or my neighbor's front door. :o ;)

O. k I am back. I was out the loop for a couple day because of major computer repairs
Any way back onto the subject.
The reason these razor balls have interested me so.
is because I have always thought that the sling can be just as effective as the bow (Learning curve not withstanding)
As for actually Hunting with this ammo I don't think there is a state with in the U. S that you could actually hunt deer legally
Some other countries maybe.
Here one would have to settle for pest animals
there is only one large pest animal I know of in Oregon
at least by the hunting reg.
That would be feral pigs. I have never hunted them with a bow but understand the difficulty of the bony plate across the ribs i hunted them heavily in Georgia with a shot gun when i was in the military they were considered a pest there then too.
but my talent and  self confidence would have to raise heavily before i took on a feral pig with a sling.
but I would never hunt an animal with any weapon
if I didn't have proven ability to hit the kill zone effectively

In keeping with well proven concepts which exploit the efficiencies prevalent in modern ballistics......I would forgo 'razor balls' or other such problematic concept in favor of more traditional darts with broadheads attatched.  I favor the mechanical....'open on contact' broadheads produced by NAP archery.   Where accuracy and penetration are a must.......it would be hard to improve upon these time tested principles.

You know I agree you TechStuf I truly forgot about the mech. broad heads as they are illegal here
the reason I have a fondness for "razor gland" is the same reason I have a fondness for the sling is it's compactness the cestui is nice but won't fit in your coat pocket easily the sling and a small case of razor glands will.
Besides, lol I know this guy who use's arrow release's on slings and star pockets so who is to talk.
Also there is the matter of when your doing something for your self sometimes it is worth the time and effort to develop the skill.
by the way tech stuff I enjoy your retention ring around the strings and use it all the time. even with the razor glands.
heres a small aside i was hurling for distance with my three "practice glands" (now painted bright purple) was averaging about 175 yards

The razor glands are very cool, but for now, rocks are my best bet.  At least until I get accurate enough to recover my ammo.  Wouldn't do for some little kid to step on a lost broadhead out in the field.
175 yds.... pretty good.  Now you've just got like 250 more to go and you can be up there with Yurek!

Solbo your right about razors and bare feet.
I worry about that sort of thing too. here's what i do on my practice ones take my belt sander and dull the razors
(o. k lol I really did that for my own safety)
lately i have been practicing at an old abandoned airfield
lots of asphalt easy to find stuff.
if you can find one i recommend it highly

Well, I live right next to an airfield, as a matter of fact!  Only thing is, it's not abandoned.  I doubt they'd believe me when I said that I wasn't a terrorist and is was an accident that I put a hole in their multi million dollar commercial jets.   ;D

Especially with all the pics in the news of arab kids with slings. ;D

;D lol yep. key word abandoned.
ha ha good slinging

the newest big game hunting ammo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/leadglands.jpg

That is three ammos, right?  Do these ones also fly like a football?  

with a wide grip i get a pretty consistant spiral out of all these type of glands

Do the heads screw out or are they fixed into the ammo?

looks like they screw in.    Nice... VERY nice, lobohunter.  I'm jealous.  Maybe you should patent those things.

they screw in and out. I took my dremel and altered the mold so I could put the arrow inserts in took a couple of trie's but the mold is now working well

I'm very impressed. :D

How did you make them?

I took my dremel and altered the mold(6 ounce egg sinker mold) so I could put the arrow inserts in.It took a couple of trie's but the mold is now working well
thenI poured lead into the molds then screwed in the various heads
here is a funny one i wonder what juju ponits would do or for that matter any of the the small game shock heads lol! considering the gland its self is a shock monster. oh I also cut the screws because they were to long and then re cut the threads

Question, wouldn't it be possable to not use the arrow inserts? If you used the pactice heads in the mold wouldn't they screw out later if you did it right?

you know gun I suppose you could mold the field tips in.
and I know you could screw them out.but lead is so soft
I am not sure you would be able to screw in broad heads afterwards

As long as you don't strip out the threads form the field tip taking it out it should work just so long as all the head you use are the same thread size (8-32? i think of most arrow inserts).

that may be true Gun but I have already altered my mold to take inserts
besides using the inserts make me feel more comfortable lol

This is great!  I have never even tried lead yet, but I did buy some 3 ounce lead fishing "bullets".

How far can you throw these hunting glands with the big sling and full spinning motion?

Must be very lethal!

honestly I havent tried them in the big sling yet just my 43 inch sling
I will need to build up more cofidence with the six footer
before I try even the feild tips

The question is:  where can you possibly use these glandes?  Not because of safety - a sling is deadly enough as it is - but because these are carefully made objects.  They may or may not have taken a lot of money to make, but they look snazzy - don't want to lose that lead and steel.

well the mold is made so new glands cost just lead, field tips and inserts my lead is free and I get a lot of archery equipment at close outs for cheap
and the answer to where is in my back yard shooting range since with these guys I stay under fifty yards  i have old carpet as knock downs all around my Styrofoam block target
but the real answer to your question is once I get the skill level high enough. the glands may get used for their obvious purpose

I don't know if i or some one else ask this but how did you make them you know step by step instructions? I am interested in makeing some but i haven't the slights idea where to start?

1. get a egg sinker mold
2. take a die grinder or dremle or somthing similar and enlarge the core slot to fit inserts
3.put in inserts
4. warm mold
5. melt lead
6. pour lead into mold
7.wait for mold to cool
8.open mold shake out lead glands
9. clean up glands trim off extra lead
10. scew in feild points or broad heads
11. hurl new ammo carefuly
12 do any or all of this at your own risk
i accept no reponsiblity for any body being as stupid as i am

I have what I refer to as a hunting rig now . It is A sling  
43 inches long with a retention toggle a modified knoll slinger pouch to keep the ammo in. (four holes on each side of the pouch with the leather laces looping though) the string is quater in leather strap.(mine came from a old jump rope) to prevent tangling and last but not least my 6 ounce feild tip or broad head arrows.
Also of interest to some I preformed a test with the broad head on a large doe I harvested this year. with my bow. now i was only ten yards away and the carcus was proped up on my back yard target. but the broad head gland went clean thought the deer.
so now i have confidence if you hit properly you could kill a deer with a sling

Went clean though, humm!  :o :o Now all we need is a sling hunting season.  ;D

The requirement for a legal bow is to shoot an arrow like 100 or 200 yards, right?  I wonder what the requirement for a legal sling would be... ;D

Solobo the requirement in most states is based on poundage of pull usually 45 pounds
Yeah just like most arrows when they hit a deer the gland went completely though. Except the exit hole was much larger about the size of a juice can lid. I was tempted to do more experiments with my other glands but  I did not want to mess up any more meat
I don't for see a sling deer hunting season in Oregon near future besides I am not sure i want A bunch of idiots out in the woods hurling razor balls around
the idiot's with guns out there are quite bad enough
but it is really good to know or feel that I know that I could take a deer down with a sling
and to further that feeling target practice will continue
These days I am like some kind of deranged golfer
out in my back yard hurling a bucket of stones 5 or six times a week

wrote on Sep 15^th, 2004 at 8:17pm:

Three in a pieplate at fifty yards: things would get VERY interesting. ;D  I wonder how hard it would be to get the sling into a legal hunting weapon.   ::)

Not a problem.. just tell the ranger the animal was hit by a meteorite!  While it was laying on its side resting..

Quote:

Also of interest to some I preformed a test with the broad head on a large doe I harvested this year. with my bow. now i was only ten yards away and the carcus was proped up on my back yard target. but the broad head gland went clean thought the deer.

I have to say, I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of shooting projectiles at a deer when it's dead.  It is quite disrespectful.  Also, with a whole in the hide, it then becomes much less useful.  It is probably a good test though.

well english as stated it was just a test mostly because in my mind I have had this thing for year's about proving that a sling in the proper hands can be just as effective as a bow. as for the deer she is in my freezer as a couple of roast and a lot of summer sausage.
the hide is drying as we speak. most holes cut out in the skinning process the other one sewed up. I seen worse but then I have skinned a few road kills

i have found that with smaller game such as nutria
that large stones about six ounce dispatch them rather neatly with out puting a hole in the animal

So now my ripping a rabbit in half (with some parts missing) is not so hard to accept I hope.

no not with a smaller stone at close range
in fact thats why i go after nutria withnlarger lighter stones to save the pelts

might sound stupid but whats nutria

I don't think it sounds stupid at all, Brit!

I've been wondering the same thing.......an animal that eat nut?  

Like a big water rat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/nutria.jpg
and weighs up to twenty pounds
if you don't live in oregon or the south i am not surspised you don't know what they are

Hey lobo what do you do with them if you kill 'em? Use the pelts, if so are they nice? Do you eat them? I used to hunt muskrats and wouldn't eat those, just use the pelts.

wrote on Dec 1^st, 2004 at 2:53am:

no not with a smaller stone at close range in fact thats why i go after nutria withnlarger lighter stones to save the pelts

I never thougt of this, but it would be cool to make a sling pocket from a pelt you took with a sling!

mostly just for the pelts they have a good fur value
and oregon has the best nutria pelts

Wow.  That does look like a cool animal.  Nice pelt.  But I would surely eat it, so as not to waste anything.  I've heard that muskrat can be nice, so I don't see why this nut-thingy shouldn't be.

Heart Healthy "Crock-Pot" Nutria

2 hind saddle portions of nutria meat
1 tomato, cut in big wedges
2 carrots, sliced thin
1/2 cup white wine
2 teaspoons chopped garlic
1 cup demi glace (optional)
1 small onion, sliced thin
2 potatoes, sliced thin
Brussel sprouts
1 cup water
salt and pepper to taste


Layer onion, tomato, potatoes, carrots and Brussel sprouts in crock pot. Season nutria with salt, pepper and garlic to taste and place nutria over vegetables. Add wine and water, set crock pot on low and let cook until meat is tender. Cook for approximately 4 to 6 hours. Garnish with vegetables and demi glace (4 servings).

It is winter my busness slows way down this time of year. SO I get to do my projects YEA ;D  ;D  ;D .
One of the first ones will be hand forged hunting glands
the thought is something like to arrow heads back to back with a thick center for weight any thoughts folks.
I defentily desire imput if somebody comes up with a idea I really like and use I will send you a prototype
well thanks for reading this guys
the lobo hunter out
                                           p.s
                                    drawings helpful i never think on the same line as any one else

Nutria.....Hmmm.....Gonna have to give that a turn or two in the ole' noggin!   I will have to come up with a larger pocket design......I can already imagine the sounds they would make upon release......


Oops,  this probably belongs in the screaming ammo thread.

Sorry

:D

the nutria flying though the air. bad Techstuff lol

At this point,  I can picture a Gary Larson (Far Side) cartoon....depicting a band of Swedish Slingers going to war, armed with their 'Screamin Projectiles'.......Then an enemy combatant watching the advancing troops implores his captain for retreat.....

The caption reads something like:

"Sir,  but I thought you said they were 'neutral'!


AAAARRRGGGHHH!

8)

Lobohunter, did I understand you correctly? You have actually successfully hunted Nutri with a sling? We have them in south east Texas, but they can get to be well over 30 pounds. It's not just because they're in Texas. Next door in Louisanna they get just as big. I think its their diet. They were imported into our part of the country in the early 1900's to help control vegitation in bayous and canels. I think they came from somewhere in South America and their normal diet was vegitation similar to the vegitation we wanted them to control. However they liked the cane in the marsh areas better and became a problem for duck habitat.

They're considered a pest and are hunted for control and for pelts. I have taken one for the pelt with a .22 rifle. It weighed well over 20 pounds. What you didn't mention was their teeth. The one I shoot had front teeth over 1" long. they also get very mean when hurt or cornered.

The meat is very clean since they're vegitarians. I don't know any one personally who has eaten one, but I have heard that some people do.

How large a stone did you you use and where did you hit them.  I have seen them swist off of a broadhead tipped arrow that went through the chest area and keep going. It was in  water and kept swimming after it broke off the arrow. It was impossible to track after it submerged. I always thought them to tough for a sling.

I've also heard the the pelt from the nutria in your area and those in South America are better than the ones in our area. The pelt here have a somewhat course fur once the animal is adult sized. Again it may be the diet.
 Gene

Those broad head hunting glands wouldent happen to be selling those would you? hmm might be a little illegal to ship?

Wouldn't be illegal to ship in this country
if any legality occurred I would just ship the gland with the inserts and let the customer chose there own broad heads.
I was considering if i go to winter count to make up a few sets for sale and trade probably coming in there own little wooden gift box.
but i haven't actually decided if they are going to be a true product yet
I have had some other thoughts such as the fact i have seen small broad heads made for pistol crossbows I was thinking about getting some of these and going with two ounce glands instead of the six I am currently using.
the six are definitely for bigger game though they fly right though small animals leaving a large hole

I think you'll find in further testing that such a projectile would prove to be highly problematic in regards to consistently accurate trajectory.   Also,  the use of two broadheads is overkill in that only one should be necessary, as proven over thousands of years via spear, arrows, crossbow bolts etc.   The only utilitarian purpose for two broadheads that I can see, would involve the projectile spinning end over end which introduces further probems....

I would expect your hypothetical arrangement to actually prefer an in flight spin orientation rather like that of a golf ball.....preferring to spin at a right angle to direction of travel, thus causing a rapid rise or nose dive of the ammo.


I would be very interested to see pictures of your results and the sling used. Though it is interesting as a 'fantasy' exercise,  I highly doubt that it would prove useful as an accurate and effective means of downing game. I do however, expect you have quite a little Buzz'bomb' there!


:)

wrote on Jan 24^th, 2005 at 4:42pm:

...I think they came from somewhere in South America and their normal diet was vegitation similar to the vegitation we wanted them to control. However they liked the cane in the marsh areas better and became a problem for duck habitat.

They are probably controlled in South America by anacondas and such...
::)

Decades of experimentation has lead me to the simple dart shape as generally the most efficient and accurate sling projectile.  

http://img142.exs.cx/img142/1414/slingdart38yb.jpg

http://img142.exs.cx/img142/4567/slingdart11mf.jpg

http://img142.exs.cx/img142/2526/slingdart28pw.jpg

I only recommend use of the kind of dart shown for target sport, although as shown,  with the open on impact broadhead, can be quite effective on various game, provided it is legal to do so in your area.  These broadheads only open on impact and alleviate the planing issues prevalent with fixed broadheads.

Dart as shown weighs in at 3.2oz and is highly accurate with an over hand cast using a compound dart thrower.

These and a variety of other unique products will be demonstrated in what we hope, will be a spectacular DVD, packed with information!

where do you get the inserts for the broadheads?

I was looking for a ammo that could be fired out of the normal rock thrower sling. the first few pictures that where shown looked like they would be perfect. I did not see that other picture of the big game hunting ammo. wont come up on my computer for some reason.  i may be interested in buying a few of your razor glands if youll sell them.  I have some money saved up i was going to use to buy some more lead to make into glands. but your razor glands look much cooler. and more effective.

I have purchased from Saunders & Golden Key Futura in bulk, although one can purchase them from any number of archery retailers online.  One would want to make sure that the inserts purchased match the specific arrow shaft used.

:)

Oh TechStuf, your such a fun person lol!
First of all let me say, I love your small arrows. Would Also love to see the compound dart thrower.
well the two broadheads may be over kill, but this is for ease  of the slinger. In this case me. I like grab and go ammo. Acuracty at least with in fifty yards has not changed,from that of a gland with out broad heads. The only that has changed is penitration. These at six ounce go though my compressed stryfoam target. that same target stops broadheads from my 65 compound bow. Any way the whole point of this expermention, wich for me has been going on for decades is to prove the common sling can be as effective as the bow. I used to make razor balls from any thing you can imagine.the sling that I now use these guy's in. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/Untitled-TrueColor-03.jpg
On another point, I also like the better penitration that , feild points also give. I refering to better than lead glands.
thank you very much for your imput  TechStuf I always enjoy it. It is great to have somebody to discuss things, I have been mulling over for years alone.

I have a new big game hunting gland just about done
it is solid steel. Forged from sping steel  oval in shape with two sharp ends.  the Ideal is a pointy sharp foot ball shape ball bearing

that sounds cool. i have been wanting to show you my new lead mold lobo. i made it out of clay, the shape that is made is a small foot ball of lead. I think that i can make a mold to make your razor glands out of lead, and maybe even some other shapes that would be cool to throw. clay is easer to mold then metal :)

Hmmm razor glands completely out of lead. Now there is a poisonous concept lol

i wonder how hard it would be to hollow out the gland and dump poison in? :) maybe you could drill a hole :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/DouglasTheBlack/others/leadgland.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/DouglasTheBlack/others/glandsandmold.jpg



my mold and the ammo it makes the writing is dtb in rune.  weight i dont know yet but i can say this is a huge lead gland.

:o Holy smokes DtB those things are MASSIVE! I think we need a contest - guess the weight of the giant glans!

20 oz?

Matthias

I'm going to guess 40 ounces (2-1/2 pounds or 1.13 kilos).

I meaured the length and width from the picture, that monster is 3-1/2 inches long and 2-1/2 inches wide.  I have to guess the thickness, but the proportions would be about right if it is 2-1/2 inches thick.

I have a lead egg sinker that weighs 1-1/2 ounces and measures 1 x 5/8 x 5/8, so DTB's glans is roughly three times as big (which is really a WAG since the sinker is radially symmetric and the glans is not).  Volume goes up as the cube of size, so that makes the glans about 27 times as heavy as my sinker.  Q.E.D.  :P

Am I close?  

i havent measured it yet and they are massive you should see the tree i hit :)

ok i just got it weighed, the weight is a little inaccurate becase it was too heavy for the small scale i have, so i had to use a scale made for people.

any one still want to guess the weight before i say it?  8)

;D_{YOU CANT WEIGH THAT MONSTER ON A "People" SCALE!!!} ;D

I'm a bit dissapointed too. Doesn't seem like anyone every wants to play the guess the XXX game around here. Tech never did tell us how many darts were in Buck Rogers.

Matthias

Get a measuring cup, fill it half full and then tell us how much water that baby displaces (what the level comes to - the starting amount). Lead is in the 13g/ml range, 250ml to a cup.

Get a B-I-G measuring cup, that thing won't fit in a one-cup measure!

BTW, I goofed in my measurements, I mistyped my guess about the thickness.  I should have typed 2 inches, not 2-1/2.  That makes the glans 3 x 2-1/2 x 2.

DTB, am I close to the real size?

Hit a nutria with that thing, there'd be less left than there was of Knollslinger's rabbit...

it is 1 and 1/2 inches thick 2 3/4 inches long and 2 inches wide, all are from the widest part (the middle :P) and it displaces 1/4 a cup of water.

and yes the nutria would look like a meteor hit it :)

Ooo! I must be close 8)

Ooo, I over-estimated the size by about a quarter.  Still, not too bad working from a picture... but I overestimated the weight by double...

A quarter cup is about 60 milliliters (same-same cubic centimeters) and lead is about 11 grams/cc which makes it just shy of 23 ounces (with various conversion factors and hand-waving tossed in).

Matthias, congratulations!  You pegged it!

nice glands look a lot like eggs sinkers. lol ;D
wich you can buy molds for all the way up to two pounds
from cabelas

got my molds for free 8) just alot of work involved :)

look at the size of the crater this gland makes!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/DouglasTheBlack/sling%20related/megaglandcrater.jpg



its way way too heavy for the sling but great for the staff sling, i will start on a smaller mold soon.

about three inches and about three ounces of solid high carbon steel http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/steelglands1.jpg
The first shots show good penetration buried completely in arrow stop compressed broad head target.
I originally thought i was going to have to round the square body. but these spiraled nicely and penetrated as well as lead twice as heavy

have a look at the impact these heavy glands make.

http://www.slinging.org/movies/flagg/megagland.mov
http://www.slinging.org/movies/flagg/megagland.mpg

A small upgrade advisory to the razor glands the use of hundred gram tittanium coated broad heads the smaller broadheads make for better pentration also makes the whole gland a tighter neater package. here a link to the broadheads of wich I speak http://www.eastmanoutfitters.com/broadheads.shtml I will soon post a jpeg of the newer more compact razor glands.
 lobohunter out

DAMN, what are you guys going to try next? Modified caltrops? I want some of those glandes DTB, how much you charge?

what some of my monster glands? im me your address and i will send you a few. You cant sling them with a sling but make nice staff sling shots.

o.k I have had a bit more hunting Experince now. I may have to go back to the apachie hunting. By this I mean I am now not afraid Of taking on most medium game with a nice foot ball shaped six ounce river stone. including small deer. Acuracy power and close range. I think make that six ounce river stone deadly.
just a opinon of a man who is starting to become familiar with the ways of the sling. So I had To include the six ounce river stone as big game ammo!

Funny, that is what I use.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/Miguel_R/sling011.jpg

I can find hundreds and hundreds of them, about 300 yards from where I live. I'm not sure why, but 6oz is my ideal size. Any smaller and they lack punch, any bigger and they lack speed. I can fire them end first with a spin and they have killed everything I've hit so far.

I'm not an expert on rocks, but granite or quartz seem to river polish nicely and are very hard and dense.

Nice rocks! I wish I had an abundant supply of those smooth suckers. I'm stuck with rough, sharp concrete. :(

I used such stones for a while but they seemed to zigzag too much or were behaving a bit like boomerangs with curved trajectories to the side.

I like shooting elongated stones but they seem to have the same problem. I like it when the point hits first and then there's a big dent in the half inch thick plywood board I am shooting at. And two days ago I shot a 14 oz stone at it and it actually went through all the way and made a big hole!
I wanted to try more types of rocks so I saw the razor glande Lobo made. I tried to duplicate it but in a primitive form, with a short stick, two stone points, and glue and twine.
http://tinypic.com/do6gw6.jpg
It actually flew well - point first and hit a tree and made a sharp dent but then the point fell out, I have to make a new better one with the stones better connected. It's sort of cool though because regular stones do blunt wounds but this does sharp.

Alsatian,
It sounds like you are using a "narrow" grip (release knot and retained cord both pass between thumb and forefinger of the throwing hand).  If you use a "wide" grip instead, with the release knot gripped between thumb and forefinger and the finger loop on your ring finger, and if you orient your hand correctly, you can make your stones spin like footballs and they will fly very straight.

Mike Greenfield wrote about the virtues of the wide grip in a number of places; here are three of them: one two three

Mike mostly slings underhand.  However, I have found that the same technique (keeping your hand perpendicular to the line from you to the target) works perfectly for overhand casts also.  Just yesterday I took some nice, football shaped rocks and watched them fly off, perfect spirals, using both an underhand and a figure-8 slinging style.

On the other hand, if I use a narrow grip, I never know which way the stone is going to spin.  It's even worse with tennis balls.  I have seen a tennis ball fly fifty feet in a straight line, a foot off the ground, when I had a really good backspin on it.  I have had a tennis ball drop to the ground twenty feet from me, when I had a topspin on it.  I've seen them curve 'way off to the right or left.  With a narrow grip, I never know what's going to happen.

Crater_Caster great primative razorgand. maybe ill try that with a couple napped obsidion arrowheads or perhaps spear heads
Mike i agree  with the stones thanks for the nice show of rocks
O.k folks out napping i go

Cool! Can't wait to see any pics or hear a story   :)

I just came up with a quick easy way to make razor glands. You need two broad heads a box of sand a few ounces of lead a two inch length of 1/2 inch metal pipe
a small cast iron skillet and a dremmle or hack saw
take one broad head press it all the way into the sand
until the blades are completely buried just the threaded screw sticking out. Next place the pipe ove the screw press it a little bit into the sand. enough so it will stand.
pack a little around the out side. The lead should be melting in the old skillet. (a small one 4inch dia) now pour the lead into the pipe wait a few secoonds tillthe lead starts setting up then press in the other broad (use a pair of pliers to do this)head try to keep it alined with the broad head in the sand.
still using the pliers hold the broad head till the lead sits
if you do this all properly you now have a nice little razor gland Good hunting lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/ammooarts.jpg
the two haves of my latest big game ammo these will soon be one and lead filled
they are high carbon tool steel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/bullet.jpg
here is the completed lead core high carbon steel gland weighing in at five oz

cool 8) does it goes far when you sling it?ever tried?

I have tried it at fifty yards. it smashes the heck out of cedar fence boards. And yes it does have a back and front and you can throw it in one direction like a bullet.This is some thing I and Techstuff have discussed before sugesting that the razor glands only need one broad head instead of two Iam inclined to agree as long as the balance was correct. I may work on this next

this is an intresting thread so i thought i ought to revive it :-/ ;D

heres what I am thinking about I tried something similar to this and it flew geat. It just didnt survive testing


                              http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/slingdart.jpg

some other one directional ammo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/slingbullett.jpg

Yes this thread is back! Geez! Be careful or you'll kill some big game with those   8).

I wonder, Lobohunter, if adding fletching to your glande would improve its stability, even if it would be more of a dart then than a glande.

see you just solved a problem because till this point i was thinking metal fins but they get in the way. But soft flecting might do the trick Thank you A.C

I just hope that soft fletching will be able to stabilize something like that. It looks much heavier than your average arrow. Let us know how testing goes with that.

Maybe not a fletching but a sabot as in modern ordinance, something  to cause just enough drag and land on target.
give it a go.  ;D

I have to take pics next. time but these glands/darts buried them selves deeply in a tree. every once in a while i mess up.
ans send the dart tumbling though the air but most of the time this 4 ounce dart/gland (I have three ) flys like a missle
Note on fletching tried plastic flecting it ripped of coming out of the pouch wowit just hit me the name for this ammo sling missles ;D

Man, that's incredible. Why not write up a quick article to making those for the article section? I mean, those look like the ultimate hunting ammo for all kinds of targets. Better accuracy, good mass...density, and penetration ability. I'm sure our ancient comrades would have been even more appreciated on the battlefield if they had slings whose glandes could penetrate armor and flesh and could fly with incredible stability.

wow ty for the great compliments  well I might write up the articles. I hot turn mine but they could be done one a metal lathe or mill the thread is there for my holding tool
here are  a couple draw backs 1 they do not work well under hand.  they work great over hand as long as they are well centered the pouch drawn tight and a good spiral thrown
but i must admit  they hit hard like a penitrating version of my pin ball ammo

I think they should make this a sticky topic

why?

If we make all the posts sticky that deserve to be sticky, there would be a few pages of sticky posts.
It works better if you get the better posts to the top every now and again.

You can, easy enough, get a post to the top each day and we will just love that.

Willeke

Hello folks. just finishing up a new version of big game ammo. It is basicaly a 5 ounce dart one can throw with a large pouched sling.
Ill have the proto type done in a few days then a picture up a few days after that

can't wait :). is it supposed to be thrown with spiral spin (rifle bullet, american football) to keep it stable and point first?

that how I hurl almost every thing so yes! lol ;D

here a newer simple big game hunting gland
1 broad head + 1 3ounce lead fishing sinker and a nut to fit the end of the broadheads screw shaft
enlarge the hole in the egg sinker with drill so the broad head screw shaft fit though snug. then screw nut on other end wala simple but effective big game ammo be sure to put the point in the dirretion you throw

big game sling hunters check this one out http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1165036438/0

this thread is becoming my own personal ammo blog lol
But here another idea for big game ammo sabots actuly I was thinking clay glandes with steel dart inside
So this would be unfire clay so it would shatter on impact I was Also thinking the sabot could actuly be a lead weighted hunting broad head. this is still in developmental stages so I would defenitly enjoy some impact. I am thinking that this after noon deserve a trip to my local marsh for natural clay.
the reason for this thought is to possibly deliver the big game glandes to the target with less posible danger to the slinger. also clay incased broad heads would possibly allow rapid fire techniqes to be employed
the first test of this "new" system will be tested in the next couple of weeks Ill see what i can do to get some photos possibly vid. the vid is guestionble Any way thoughts any one :D

I am find great power for twenty to fifty yard shots using foot ball shaped stones that six inch's in length and aprox for in dia. these monster stones come roaring out of the sling and just smash things to bits I would not be surprised to here a hunting stone like this bringing down a elk size animal
umm north american elk size relizing that in eroupe what are called elk is a differnt animal.

lobohunter wrote on Dec 6^th, 2006 at 2:28pm:

big game sling hunters check this one out http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1165036438/0

        I do not think that a Foster style slug would do as well as the egg sinker. The Foster type slug was ment to fly true by having it propelled from the rear by a powder charge to a certain FPS. When the Foster started running out of steam it would tumble. Your egg sinker ammo is thrown almost like a spear or football and would be the better choice from a sling IMHO. Have fun and be safe.

BTW -  I wonder if anyone has chronographed a standard sized and weighted slung projectile?

so your saying we couldnt put enough power behind a doulble slug to make it preform properly
hmm i wonder if there is a way to test that

have discovered these do a nice job on white tail jack rabbits as well lol

lobohunter wrote on Sep 21^st, 2004 at 12:06pm:

O. k I am back. I was out the loop ...feral pig.  I have never hunted them with a bow but understand the difficulty of the bony plate across the ribs i hunted them heavily in Georgia with a shot gun when i was in the military they were considered a pest there then too. but my talent and  self confidence would have to raise heavily before i took on a feral pig with a sling....

besides the chest plate, people usealy dont know that they have deceptively sharp teeth that could easly rip you apart.

well if they chose too.
but mostly I am worried about the ability to make a clean kill

o.k folks I am now ready for true big game hunting with ammo tiny ammo weighing say 48 grams granted this ammo takes special care a slinging protective suit
http://www.unitednuclear.com/uraniumstock.htm

that's freakin' hystarical!

Anti-tank slinging?

http://www.palestineaid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/boyvstankbig.jpg

:o

that by far is the most evil looking thing i've ever seen!!!...lol

now i've got to try and make one....lol

The ammo looks pretty well balanced. Your tests did the rest on proving the efectivness. Ever think about really going hunting with them?

Dr.Q wrote on Oct 6^th, 2008 at 9:26am:

The ammo looks pretty well balanced. Your tests did the rest on proving the efectivness. Ever think about really going hunting with them?

Not for deer. Wich is not a legal target here in oregon. but non game animals are. last winter I lost the one of the latest generation of the big game hunting glands. As it went thru a large nutria (aprox. 20#)
The nutria actuly had a kinda suprised look on its face right before it expired.

right now I am researching newZealand As I understand deer are considered pest there if so I may off to great down under to try these baby out for real and legaly

So we each make an identical uranium bullet for our slings and stand fifty yards apart, facing each other.  We launch our expertly aimed projectiles at each other at full power so that when they collide, exactly half way between us,  they reach critical mass and we create a small atomic explosion, instantly roasting our prey.  There's just one small bug... we roast also.  I guess it's back to the drawing board.
  Btw, your ammo looks great... I'm sure it'd kill a deer with a good shot.  

Rat Man, that would never work because....AHHHHHHH!!!  (got swallowed by a black hole)

hunting big game with a sling seems 2 be much like hunting deer with a .22 cal rifel it can be done but really is needed is a larger weapon like staff sling perhaps what are your thoughts

I believe hunting slings are good for large game - not small. A head shot with a four to six ounce stone on man or beast and it's definately "goodnight Irene".  Small targets can get torn up beyond usefullness (or so I've read here).

Walter

Time for my 2 cents.
Been thinking about how to make some nasty shot for heavier hunting and though I like my design (d'uuh) it will take a lot of effort even after the first are made and one has the hang of it. and it may damage the sling pretty bad too.
It will most likely never be even remotely cost effective.

I don't see any problems with welding the three blades together but I do not quite know how one would attach the lead.
Either heat up the steel and add three premade lead pieces or have the blades in a mold and pour lead on it..
Most likely easier molding.. Oh well, will take ages before I even attempt it.

---

solobo wrote on Sep 15^th, 2004 at 8:17pm:

Three in a pieplate at fifty yards: things would get VERY interesting. ;D  I wonder how hard it would be to get the sling into a legal hunting weapon.   ::)

I actually wrote the fish and game department of my state, New Jersey, to see what it would take to get the sling made into a legal hunting weapon here.  Just about an act of God is the answer.  It just aint gonna happen.  
  Btw, that projectile is about as cool and deadly as it gets.  I'm sure a proper shot would bring down any game we have around here, the biggest being dear or possibly a very rare black bear.  Very cool!

How much does the "Jersey Devil" weigh?

How much does the "Jersey Devil" weigh?

Depends on how heavy you are.

Walter

hmm seems like lot of work for a gland when a 3ounce lead egg sinker and a broad head work very well with like ten minutes work

lobohunter wrote on Jul 14^th, 2009 at 12:54pm:

hmm seems like lot of work for a gland when a 3ounce lead egg sinker and a broad head work very well with like ten minutes work

Yeah I know, thought of it before I saw this thread though.
But then again making a glans is waaaay more work than picking up a stone.. not suggesting that there would be similar differenses in efficiency as between glands and stones.

oh.....i love this thread!  :D

lately have been using "big game " ammo the one side type with 3ft of yellow ribbon out the back side i been able to retreave them quite easly  bails of straws have died nice clean deaths often with complete penitration

Though I've seen signs of them my whole life, I've only ever gotten a good eyeball on a Jersey Devil once.  My younger sister saw it also. The one I saw couldn't have been much over a hundred pounds, but I have no idea if it was an adult or not.  They're probably on the endangered species list, so I wouldn't try hunting one.  

is there a season on jersery devils i am ready to hunt

two handed sling anybody know any thing. seems like it would increase power and projectal size

lobohunter wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 12:27pm:

two handed sling anybody know any thing. seems like it would increase power and projectal size

i think their was some section in Project Goliath by David morningstar about a two handed pacific sling.

hello folks got something new i have been working on will post pics soon

a two handed sling would have to work much like an olympic hammer throw.

In other words it's speed and final release velocity would be governed by how fast you could spin in place. Which would have an extreme effect on accuracy.

But yep, it should allow the slinging of much larger rocks - just so long as you didn't really care where they end up  :)

lobohunter wrote on Sep 16^th, 2011 at 11:24am:

hello folks got something new i have been working on will post pics soon

Awesome, looking forward to it.  :)

My latest. Try at big game ammo has taken a slightly different. Turn. Any one who has used shaker mill balls. (Steel ball bearings about the same size and shape as a pin ball)As ammo is probally aware. That when used on living penitrate.the same can be said of lead glands love a good three to six ounce lead sinker.well. the other day I was search the local scap yard and stumbled. On to a batch of what I thought were one inch ball bearing. Thinking they were 5160 spring. Steel I started. To forge one out. Well to my surprise it was hollow.  I anealed half a dozen drilled. Them out. Filled them full of lead and tappeda plug.   Into the hole. The test firing was done at twenty yards into a 4x12peice of indoor outdoor carpet hanging double over my clothes line  all six went though both sides and a couple. Broke peices outa my cedar. Fence behind it I tried a couple broad head glands and was never able to get though more than one side of he carpet. While I am sure. The broad head glands do more vascular damage. For pure penetration thesee hollow. Lead. Filled cherries. Are totally. Awesome. Anyway folks thank-you all for allowing me to share and a happy new year to all

Welcome back lobohunter, we've missed you.

Feanor Have you made any of these

I must add a warning to the "lead filled cheries" when striking hard items such as boulders they some times explode. So wear safety glasses. Another add in I havent tried yet is hollow 3x1 inch pipe end with caps one drilled add black powder and slow fuse Notice the preamble of havent tried yet. FOR informational porposes only. awe i love these fun ideas

i am now thinking the staff sling and big game hunting ammo might work better for larger game such as deer. if there was a legal way to manage this

there we are my favorite big game hunting glands

---

Awesome. So how much do they cost?

i have given a few away have never sold them lol fairly simple to make granted the broad heads can be rather spendy

thought so.

Something like this,with 1mm steel sheet,and heavier,like 120g ~4oz lead glans could do the job.

---

sweet jlasud  about the same weight I would prefer tempered steel but still sweet. pics of the first deer
much like my first try.

---

That's cool too. The only thing is that it has it's weight towards the end,which could fool the flight into a bolo rotation at the slightest wobble at release,me thinks. The good ol' rugby shaped is the most stable for rifled point first flights,mostly because it has most of it's mass in the middle.

that is why i went to the egg sinkers also very simple to make cast the egg sinkers screw in the broadheads I trust the broadheads fror decades of bow expernce. the thought of the other one rotating though the air is kinda cool actuly but to be truthful the dozen or so of those i made they always sunk point first into the targets never had one land sideways

so... what about making a blade, about 1/16 thick, mild or high carbon steel, approx 3" long and 1/2" wide. make it like a 2 sided arrowhead. Or better yet barb it on both sides. then cast a gland over and around it after drilling a hole or two in the steel.
I believe this was tested sometime long ago... but I don't care about long ago. I am talking about NOW.
doable?
Obviously this is extremely dangerous to sling... and would probably ruin slings.

Its doable, but why would you want to do it?

I don't think it would fly very good.(because you will have flats) If you are looking to enhance penetrative capabilities for hunting or throwing through stuff, I would recommend just casting a lead gland around a piece of re-bar(round stock) and sharpening both ends to points. No need to drill holes through the re-bar, it will grip the lead sufficiently.(due to its textured nature) Make sure that the re-bar is free of rust and debris prior to casting as this will prevent a clean bond. you will also want to use a flux on the bar. I think you are pretty young, so I would recommend adult supervision, and guidance when doing anything like this. Hot lead, Poisonous flux, sharp steel = very dangerous.       

Squirrel, I think you should pm Timpa about this idea. I also think its a lot of time and effort into something you're literally throwing away. Be careful and have fun :)

It's reinventing the wheel. Lobohunter, who used to be a regular here, came up wih what he called "hunting ammo." A biconical lead projectile cast around broadhead arrow inserts. Ultimately he found them to be kinda hard to sling.

Edit: Found and spliced.

The one my little sister and I saw wasn't as big as most of the drawings you see.  We only got a quick glance at it gliding from treetop to treetop.  I'd guesstimate that it  was about a hundred pounds.  Of course we had no idea if it was a female, youngster, or whatever. 

solobo wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2004 at 12:52pm:

Well, I live right next to an airfield, as a matter of fact!  Only thing is, it's not abandoned.  I doubt they'd believe me when I said that I wasn't a terrorist and is was an accident that I put a hole in their multi million dollar commercial jets.   ;D

lol!

English_Marauder wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2013 at 4:23pm:

Its doable, but why would you want to do it? I don't think it would fly very good.(because you will have flats) If you are looking to enhance penetrative capabilities for hunting or throwing through stuff, I would recommend just casting a lead gland around a piece of re-bar(round stock) and sharpening both ends to points. No need to drill holes through the re-bar, it will grip the lead sufficiently.(due to its textured nature) Make sure that the re-bar is free of rust and debris prior to casting as this will prevent a clean bond. you will also want to use a flux on the bar. I think you are pretty young, so I would recommend adult supervision, and guidance when doing anything like this. Hot lead, Poisonous flux, sharp steel = very dangerous.

Well, I did it.
It didn't work super well.
Don't try to cast around another metal- it is very hard to get a good seal.
I use NO flux.
They spin fast enough that flats don't matter.

SSlinger. How about a picture of your work?

Yes. Please

Would you need a special throw for broadhead ammo?  Also I wonder if they would be improved with some fletching.

the latest development on these is even simpler to make I take JB weld, mix it with iron filings till it is the consistency of clay. then insert two arrow inserts so the broad heads or field points will screw in. then smooth out the shape till egg like then let dry. this mixture is pretty sweet for almost any shape of glan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/acscottthefirst/slingbullets.jpg just adding a pic back hopefuly

Here we go

---

Wicked.

I actually became quite happy with just one broad head.
Facing the broad head to rear of the pouch when throwing Apache style. Pretty effective but also pretty much I one use projectile. Though often the blades can be replaced. Probably be awesome in ancient warfare lol

I just made up a new batch of these going take them out in few days to do a few tests
1. Against hanging carpet and maybe a few other things

Could you make a video?
Want to see one in action