I waz doin sum research into archery when i discovered a law stating that every englishman had 2 practise for 2 hours a week with a longbow. I think this was because of the war with the french. I also found out that the
"F-off" finger gesteur came from when the french cut off the index and for finger of english men to stopp them usiing a bow. I was really just wonderin if that law was still in effect if not enforced and if anyone knew if that was the true origin of the gesteur.

I also heard that at one point if more than two men were talking there had to be a bow present.

Yes, that is the origin of said gesture.  The English archers would wave their two fingers at the French, in defiance, essentially to say, ha, we can still kill you.
   That law is not still in effect, of course, and it is in fact no longer legal even to hunt with the bow in England (although it is legal in Scotland, and Northern Ireland, countries part of the Union but not exactly renowned for their archery.)  There are still some famous archery clubs and societies in England, including the Toxophilite Society, and the army has one regiment (solely ceremonial I believe) that is armed with bows, although they are Scottish.
The Hundred Years War was a very interesting conflict, in that it was basically the first act in a series of English wars with France and her allies that ended in 1815, really.

You folks in England use the first two fingers, knuckles outward, correct? In America, people use just the middle finger. Also, the English archers would boast to the French,"we're still plucking the yew!". "Plucking the yew" went to "Pluck Yew" and then to, well, I think you know where this is going! Giving them the bird comes from the arrows with the feather fletching. "Giving the bird" meant giving them an arrow.

No way!   Now that IS interesting!   I really hadn't thought of the origin of that phrase and the middle finger...... 8)

Tech
I've read in the past that this may be an urban legend. But others have proof that it is a FACT!!! I'm sure there are many websites (snopes.com) that would have the answer!

Quote:

You folks in England use the first two fingers, knuckles outward, correct? In America, people use just the middle finger.

That is indeed correct.  The American middle finger came about in Boston just before the revolution, as a symbol of defiance; those who supported the revolution would show simply the middle finger, those who didn't would use the normal English gesture.
That is most interesting.  Seems we have a lot to thank the Hundred Years War for, culture wise.

So what does the Biting of the thumb signify? ???

wrote on May 10^th, 2004 at 1:35pm:

You folks in England use the first two fingers, knuckles outward, correct? In America, people use just the middle finger. Also, the English archers would boast to the French,"we're still plucking the yew!". "Plucking the yew" went to "Pluck Yew" and then to, well, I think you know where this is going! Giving them the bird comes from the arrows with the feather fletching. "Giving the bird" meant giving them an arrow.

Pluck yew? C'mon, that sounds really far fetched... Especially considering that the word in question comes from the old German word "to hit" and not a mispronouciation of the modern English "pluck."

Ahhh the Internet... our descendants are going to believe things like "flaming pigs were commonly used against was elephants" thanks to this marvelous technology.

If you are wondering about word origins, a great site is http://www.etymonline.com/
- you can enter the relevant words yourselves...

Matthias

I was always told that the f word stood for "For unlawful carnal knowlge"  and F.U.C.K was refered to the peeping toms.

People like to make up acronyms. I even made one up for my name :P. Have you ever heard that the word golf is supposed to have come from "Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden"? [it really comes from an alteration of club or mace]

None of these origins are 'proven' and pluck yew is daft IMHO. As a general rule, there are no acronyms more than about a hundred years old.

But flaming pigs - those are bloody real!

Pat

And Leeds United - are they still playing football? I thought they had stopped. Not seen them in the premiership table recently.


Man walks up to the Elland Road turnstyle, gives the guy £20.00 and says 'two please'. Guy says 'Sure, do you want midfielders or defenders?'


Pat

Good story anyhow! Procopius said that Aelian said that Pliny said that Dionysius said that pigs were used in a great battle more than 200 years before he was born. So it must be true. ::)

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm

It's an urban legend.

Just came across this topic, whilst searching for something else entirely.  Even though it is six months old, I'll dredge it back up because I am curious.

I thought that "f***" was Anglo-Saxon, perhaps originally Old German.  The story about "pluck yew" is pretty clearly contrived to support a bad pun.  And I read at snopes.com that the gesture with the middle finger extended, dates back to the Romans.

The British gesture is very confusing to me, as an American.  Of course, I am familiar with Tricky Dick (Richard Nixon, if you insist) who I thought was using the gesture as a victory sign -- but then again, maybe he was more subtle than I give him credit for.  I am familiar with Winston Churchill's use of the gesture, but I was not familiar with the history of it.  My curiosity being roused at least to the point of typing "google", I have found several sources asserting that the "V" sign is a very insulting gesture, though there seems to be some subtle distinction in the degree of insult depending on whether the knuckles face the gesturer or the gesturee.

On the other hand, one British acquaintance was fond of hold up his hand with the first two fingers folded and hidden, ring and pinky fingers extended, when he was expressing his opinion of some asinine software requirement.  He explained to me that the Normans had once cut off the bow fingers of Saxon poachers, when they caught them, and this gesture essentially meant, "We can beat you even without them!"

English, Leeds_lobber, does this gesture sound familiar to you?  Maybe it is different gestures in different parts of England?

I have not tried any of the words you are looking for, but someone recently send me a link to: http://www.etymonline.com/ an etymologic dictionary online.

It might be helpfull in a case like this.
Our Dutch traditions are different from the English and the American and are not help.

Willeke

    Willeke,                                                                              
         "Your Dutch traditions are different......." Do you mean a different method of deriving word-origins ( etymology ) or do you mean different traditions concerning.......ahem.......obcene gestures?!    Either way, please tell us more!!  ;D                 .......Dan

I heard not f*** came not from a malapropism of pluck you, but from the signs peasants used to have to post on their doors when fornicating, reading "Fornication Under Consent of King" as in some parts of Europe, fornication was forbidden unless consented to by the ruling authority as a means of popluation control. I don't know if it's true, but it's what I heard and I've heard it more than once and from several sources, which to some people, is the same thing as true.

Most used here, nearly the only I think, is the middle finger pointing upwards, the fingers next on both sides up to the first knuckle, the other fingers not showing.

I meant to say that we do not often use any of the V signs.

Words do develope here as in most languages.

Willeke

wrote on Aug 27^th, 2006 at 12:19pm:

I heard not f*** came not from a malapropism of pluck you, but from the signs peasants used to have to post on their doors when fornicating, reading "Fornication Under Consent of King" as in some parts of Europe, fornication was forbidden unless consented to by the ruling authority as a means of popluation control. I don't know if it's true, but it's what I heard and I've heard it more than once and from several sources, which to some people, is the same thing as true.

I've heard that, too. But I've also heard that acronyms were an invention of the Victorian age.