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I tried out the idea of carrying the netting twine through the body of the sling and came up with the following prototype:

I like the elegance/simplicity of design in the pocket vs the method where the net is worked back and forth, though carrying 6 strands instead of 1 certainly adds bulk. I started out round braiding the 12 strands but gave up pretty quickly (proof of concept and all)

The sling is high ten. PE 6 strands flat braided in the middle for the finger loop, ending up with 12 strands braided for the cord (4 in 3). The pocket is as per the Balearic / "20 steps" slings - 3 strands braided each side. The remaining 6 strands are netted...

This one goes together really quickly. I think the next iteration I'll weave/splice the net strands in (keeping all 6 entering and exiting the pouch) to reduce the diameter of the main cords. Maybe Dyneema as well...

- Matthias

Matthias,
Again good work and a good idea. I've been fooling with the idea of unstranding the 3 ply Mason line keep the air restance down on the lines and adding some to the finger loop and pocket... It would seem that some of the fishing net that is left over from my guillie suit could be worked into the sling...Prehaps tomorrow I'll find some "round-tu-its" and get around to working on it ;). I've got some a few irons in the fire but at least 'am at home with the dreaded "colander-phones" and my P.O.S. digital cam.

I might try a couple of test shots with the thing to see if I can send shots to someone just to see how this all works. Granted it might not all be sling related as my "test box radio" is still picking up some good long range reception.

Very cool sling! It's neat how you can make that netted pouch out of the same lines for the cords.

Chris

That looks great!

I have been playing with a single strand net pouch sling for my sons to throw whiffle balls. If it works I will find someone with a digital camera.

Scott

OMG lol i was gonna do something like this... but i was way too lazy :- :) :D ;Dhahahaha im a lazy bum.
Sean

oh man that rules..... how did you make that netting part????? i want one.... mommy! buy one for me plz.... i will be good! lol :o :o :o :o :o !!!!!! man you should give braiding instructions on how to make that....

I've started... It isn't tough at all (esp. compared to some of the artwork in the gallery) I think I could knock one of these up in about 10-15 min.

I'm putting an article together that will cover the net pouch. I like the second design better from an economy of design point of view, and it is adaptable to diffferent materials. The first one is probably a "better" sling (lower aerodynamic drag). The next one will further refine the idea.

Anyone want to try to make one / ask any questions about the process? It'll make my job easier and result in a better article! 8)

- Matthias

(note that the braided type doesn't need the first row of net to be tied in like the pics below; just loop it through the edge of the braid)

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2004 at 10:03pm:

Ok, here goes... (knots are pretty hard to describe unless you are working with a common vocabulary... I'll try pics) I'm guessing at the embedded pic tags, If Chris changes them I'll edit the post - they won't show up at first.

The Sling:

This was a first experiment. The twine used was 3.5mm polyethylene/polyester braid (8 strands of each) with a filament polyethylene core. We use a range of fibres in trawl nets, up to and including dyneema/kevlar. The modern PE twines match up pretty well with the super-high-tech stuff, at much lower cost.

The challenge here was to make a sling with ONE piece of twine. The sling was eye-spliced in the middle for the retention loop and "sleeved" until the split. The core was withdrawn from 3/4 of the length and braided. The two halves (both sans core) then rejoin coax style again until the retention knot.

In the photo below, end 2 is spliced for the loop, and drawn through the hollow core until the pouch split. End 1 (with core) is spliced into the hollow end 2. You can use "real" splicing tools, or you can tape a point onto the end that you are threading. Taping the end to a piece of wire or similar can make it easier too.

The top image to the left shows the path that I netted the pouch with. A further refinement would be to carry the number of cords needed through the sling cords, or split a larger core into several. Even numbers are probably better - 6 seems to be about right. A planned refinement is to try another sling using a twelve strand round braid for the cords, split into 2 three strarnd braids for the pocket edges and 6 for the netting. All 12 strands rejoin in the release cord... The lower pic might help explain. I think this will be a pretty elegant braided sling - a little different.

The Netting:

And here is the crux... Netting is easy once you get the hang of it. Watch Greek fishermen mending their nets for a knot speed tying clinic.

Traditional diamond mesh nets used to be made by hand using a netting needle to hold twine and a mesh stick to gauge the size of the meshes. The mesh in the sling is too tight for a needle, so I had to thread the knots by drawing the entire length through each mesh. The mesh stick assures consistency, but isn't neccesary - I used a pencil for some of the meshes and the corner of my pinky for others.

The first row of meshes is cast on the sling cords using Clove Hitches. Lark's Heads could be used to, but 98% of fish nets use clove hitches - there must be a reason that I don't know; I'll ask my friendly neighbourhood Icelander next time I see him!

The knots used to make the net are Sheet Bends. When tied in a net they are known by various names, including Netting Knot, Weaver's Knot, Mesh Knot... They can be tied a few different ways, depending mostly on what village or island you grew up on.

The pics describe it better than I can. Using the technique shown is quite a lot faster and more accurate than methodically tying individual sheetbends the way most people are taught. The mesh stick (shown with the hanging meshes looped around) gives you nice even meshes. Care must be taken when drawing the knot tight to avoid "capsizing" the knot - at this scale it is a little bit easier to misform the knots.

Try practicing with larger meshes and twine before tackling a sling pocket - it will go much smoother. The pouch on the green sling tapers at the ends in a mostly freeform way. I think the second design with all six strands carried through to the ends might be a little tidier.

Hope that helps a bit! Questions welcome...

Matthias

that is amazing man.... i am curently designing my next sling and that would work awesomely for the pouch.... i will let you know how it goes...

how could there be too much drag? it looks to me that there would be a lot less drag.... hmm.... i dont understand........

Well I got to thinking (stop running for cover, my brain probably won't explode) about the idea and come up with what might be a good idea. It would cut down on time and the air drag from the lines. I'll try and discribe it the best I can.
The idea is to use parachutte cord for the lines and net frame in two lines over laping the two strands to form the frame. Of corse not pulling the gut all the way out, but about 1/2- 1" out to make the two pouch ends line up and the pouch more even when stiching then whiping where the edges of the frame meet... Pretty much one line above the other and using the now flatenable ends to join to make both sides of the frame. The finger (or wrist loop) can be done after this by pulling the sheath of the cord back a bit and doing the same "stich whipery" using p-cord gut...
Again this is still in the R&D phase (locked away in my strange mind) but it would seem to make since. I'll fool with the idea tonight (or atleast this weekend) using ready made net stiched to the pouch frame. I'm in the process of moving and am pretty much out of steam.

GOBLIN,it requires at least 9 cords to make a pouch,9 braided cords=thick string=high drag,if I use a leather pouch I only braid 3 cords,3 braided cords=thin sting=low drag. ;D

Nathan

Nathan, look at the first one (green + white)... only one strand for the cords (4.5mm cord diameter) and only one for the net (part of the core for this one...)

The 2nd braided design was a prototype to see how construction changes would influence the simplicity / ease of construction of the design. There is no reason to have thick cords (and the ones here are not as heavy as they look) and the netted pocket does present less area than my leather pouch designs. The pouch also conforms very nicely to different ammo, and I liked the elegance of a single material design. I think it's neat to be able to sit down with a ball of string and whip up such a refined sling in a few minutes...

I'll post V.3 sometime next week (much thinner, and using 3 strand seine twine, which might be easier for people to find) and V.4 once I track down some Dyneema (crazy thin - I'll have to sleeve the grips)...

Matthias

Sorry,I did not look at the pic's vary well.My sling was made a diferent way, With this new infomation I might try again,thanks ;D

Nathan

it wont be much drag at all i got a design on lock down. i will post pics when i got it done.... it should look totally amazing. i got all of my ideas to the awesome post about "Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket" . i feel that it wasn't a very creative idea since none of them were my idea's. but none the less, it should look cool and i think you guys would be surprised to see what i have come up with. let you guys know when i am done.

Pretty darn cool. You have my admiration here. I saw pictures of Peruvian slings made with netted cradles. The netting is composed of interlocking flatbraids the detach and attach again to two main larger flat braids on the outside of the cradle. That might be worth some development itself. I believe Hondero has a picture in his sling museum, if I'm not mistaken? Otherwise, see "Sling Braiding Of The Andes."

Ben

I've seen a few... The sheer number of threads that you need is a little daunting though!

All the examples I've seen use the same 6 row netting for the pocket, so that seems to add historical validation to the choice! 8 is really too many unless you have crazy thin strands.

I was also considering using a "raschel knit" which is the construction used for modern knotless net. I really like the twelve strand pocket design though. I'm still looking for a good way to handle the taper needed to reduce the number of strands in the cords.

Matthias

(and I want to see what Goblin comes up with!)

wow that looks amazingly hard to do. i wanna try! lol!

Braided net... It's not actually as hard as it looks... I started tying a sample using 1/4" twine (easier to work things out at large scale) and it would be pretty slick! I changed the join pattern for a smoother/stronger weave. The knots in knotted web do serve a purpose though. Much more resistant to damage than knotless mesh. The global fishing industry gave up on knotless after a short experimental period.

Here are my final two prototypes. The article will be forthcoming...

The first is tapered from three strands of 3 strand twisted twine braided to 6 strands flat braid then into the same 3/6/3 arrangement as before. The grip and release are doubled up as well, and I figured out why all those peruvian slings have fancy release ends. They ran out of main threads during the braiding.... The tassel gives a nice snap for herding the local ___...

The second one is 1mm Dyneema, at 47"... going to sling me some long ones this weekend ;D I'd wear it around my waist like a belt (since it's my longest sling) but 1mm kevlar/spectra cuts too much...

Matthias

Excellent knotwork! I'm so envious. I'm particularly impressed that you used the proper netting knot.

I'm not getting the last two pictures. Wanna see!

yah i am missing those pics to. to bad, they sound cool.

The images are now online:

wrote on Apr 30^th, 2004 at 3:35pm:

those pics are amazing! lol! they rule. i wish i could make a sling that awesome. my current one looks like a p.o.s. lol! good job man i can't believe how amazing those are!

Matthias wrote on Apr 18^th, 2004 at 8:33pm:

This is just fabulous, respect!

ooh nice asemery. Is that knotted with one continuous strand or many strands?

That is one strand of braided nylon twine made into a rectangle of netting. When the ends of the netting are drawn together it forms a natural pouch. Tony

It's an interesting design, and looks usable. I'll need to try it at some point.

I've got a netted sling that a us naval bomb disposal expert made in iraq and sent to me along with some 'unused' shrapnel balls from a defused roadside bomb.

They are actually a very practical sling design.

excellent for spherical ammo.

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https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Netted sling v.2 https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1082334802 Message started by Matthias on Apr 18^th, 2004 at 8:33pm