Odd experience!   I was slinging tennis balls across our church gym last eve, ....great indoor practice ammo & place, when my favorite sling started to "go mushy" in my hand again.    Launch velocity felt slow, & accuracy was lousey.    This morning, I shortened it from 35" to 32", ....a big jump!  But it feels "snappy" again.    I slammed a few tennis balls into the garage door to see.

What's going on here??   I was "raised" to think longer is always better.    Jurek & others are swinging near 50" slings.  This sling started out about 41", and "went mushy" 1-2 times before to get down to 35".    Will I ultimately be swinging a 12" mini-sling???

My inquiring mind wants to know.    mgreenfield

   

Give us a few more details here.  What do you mean by "mushy"?

Shorter is certainly better for accuracy.  The more experience you have, the better you can use a long sling, but shorter will still achieve better accuracy.

Are your cords stretchy?   As some earlier discussions have shown, the less stretch you have, the better.

jeff <><

Mgreenfield
      It may have something to do with the ligth weight of the tennis balls. If you normally use the sling with rocks the tennis balls may not provide sufficent resistance to allow really putting some whip into the cast at the last second. Don't know, but I hope this helps.


WalkingBird

I know what you mean!
My sling from finger loop to pocket is about 22 inches. My goal is accuracy  between 25-75 yards, not distance. Yurek and others seem to be interested in distance, so you need a slightly  longer sling.
Johnny

And I thought, it has to do with how long your arm is.
My sling is about 28" ( 70 cm)
I have tested longer and shorter, but didn´t come to any conclusion. I feel, when you want to sling long but with no great accuracy, a longer sling is better.
When you want to control the throw and gain more accuracy, a shorter is better. Therefore I have tested a several slings. But as I can not practice as much as I want to, I haven´t come to any greater conclusions.
Then, with a longer sling, you also can handle bigger stones. - I think.

/Ulrica..... who don´t know so much yet.

MGreenfield
I also use tennis balls and egg shaped rubber balls. I use these when I'm around the house, bouncing them off the walls(outside of course!). It has improved my accuracy when I use stones. So keep hurling those balls!
Johnny

mgreenfield, remember the law for accuracy: the sling from the elbow to the finger  ;)

Hondero
What do you mean,"the sling from the elbow to the finger"?
Johnny

wrote on Feb 26^th, 2004 at 10:56am:

Hondero What do you mean,"the sling from the elbow to the finger"? Johnny

Johnny,

It has two meanings for me. Both make sense.

1. Lenght
2. The elbow throws first and next forearm and at the end the fingers

Jurek

Jurek
Do you mostly sling for distance?
Johnny

The saying is about the length of the sling, though it may have a meaning how you say in point 2, Yurek.

In spanish the saying is in verse. I´ll try to put it in english for not to forget it ;D :

From the elbow to the finger
is the accuracy weapon of slinger

Ha ha

I use the "Palestinian kid" setup, with an approx 630deg-of-rotation vertical underhand spin before release.  

By "mushy" (I think) I mean it feels like the pocket is behind where it is supposed to be in the spin circle when I'm doing a throw.   Like I have to work to drag it around.

By "snappy" I mean it feels like the pocket is almost propelling itself around the spin circle, ...like I'm just holding the cords, and the sling itself is doing all the work.   This is very "Zen" I suppose  :D.

A snappy shorter sling even gives me more distance than a mushy longer one.    Certainly tons! better accuracy.   The vertical spin means I've got my problems of lateral accuracy all but solved, and just have to work on vertical accuracy, ....which is coming along OK, ....as long as I use a snappy sling.

Any others have similar "feels" & experiences??    mgreenfield

mgreenfield,

As soon as you described it feeling like the "pocket was behind where it is supposed to be" it connected with what I have felt when throwing light weight objects.  My guess is that's the main issue in why it felt different.  Try throwing ping-pong balls and you will see what I mean.  If there is not enought weight in the pocket, it doesn't swing around like it should.  The longer the sling, the more mass you need in the pouch for it's inertia to pull the strings taught and spin like it should.

I have always been much more consistent, both in accuracy and distance with shorter slings.  Distance wise I mean I can throw, say, 400 yards every time with a 35 in. sling.  With a 50 in. sling there are some "buzzers" and poor throws but also some real zingers that take off like rockets.

Larry

Larry is correct.  You need enough weight to make the sling work right.  Try some stones in the 4 and 5 oz. range.  I think you will like them all around.


jeff <><

Johnny,

Latety I mainly throw the snaw-balls for my dog and for accuracy. For these games I use the 37" sling. But I really like throwing for distance very much and when I have got an occasion I do it willingly. I like a power of a sling.

mgreenfield,

It was easier for me to make the draft than explain it. That one is a big simplification, doesn't consider a lot factors (inertial forces related with a mass and acceleration, for example). Anyway, I hope that one shows esence of the matter.

http://www.kajakowe.com.pl/sling/Short_long.gif

Generally, a shorter sling, easier doing "snappy" throw. I don't use a vertical underhand spin before release, but I suppose that for that technique a limit of sling lenght is smaller than for a horizontal or diagonal release. The socond ways let us to do more spacious throw. To get a good snap (whip) with a long sling it's neccessary to use a bit different way. You must use your etire body for efficient pulling a stone. Of course, a mass of stone and our rapidity are the factors too.

Larry,


Quote:

...400 yards every time with a 35 in. sling...

Wow! It is adorable very very much! I'm curious what projectiles you use, for these shots. Really impressive! Congratulations.

Jurek

I totally agree with Larry and Jeff.

I also noticed something strange. I hurt my arm throwing real hard close range with my short sling a while back. I could not resist slinging though-- so I tried my long sling with light throws. I was surprised that I could throw much larger stone farther and use less effort without hurting. Leverage!!

Jurek,

Maybe I exagerated.   :)  

I just wanted to make the point that a shorter sling seems to lend itself to more consistent throws and is less finicky regarding projectile shape than a longer sling.  

How about 300 yards nearly every time?

Larry

Jurek, ....that is a great drawing & should go into the Picture Gallery or similar place permanently.    What I think you actually said was this.  To make up for the smaller long-sling F2, you effectively increase your arm length by adding much upper-body movement in the spin up.  You simply increase the size of the whole "slinging system" while holding rock weight constant.  

On the other hand, I'm (much?) older.  So, the amount of shoulder and upper-body movement I put into a launch is probably quite small compared to what you're doing.

Ahh, where are the videos when we need them??   Many tnx!    mgreenfield

Quote:

How about 300 yards nearly every time?

Uffff... Now much better. Thanks Larry, you so nice that you are sparing me and let me avoid frustration, but...

but... I'm still very impresed :D

You are right, a shoter sling is really more pernament in useing. Controlling a proper release with a longer one is more difficult, more shots are poor. But if all goes well that one gives better ranges.

Jurek ;)

I have learned through trial and error that, indeed one will find a length that is the "sweet spot" for them as a hunter sling.  And conversely,  a longer length ratio at which the optimum distance can be achieved.  I always used a different style and much longer sling when going for distance.  I have seen many and suprisingly diverse slinging styles!   I was never very good at the multi swing method except for distance.  I found my best power to accuracy ratio in a single arc method.  Just a quick single whip around in a near vertical plane in an underhand motion.  I have settled in quite comfortably with this style for years and it has brought me good results.  I am reminded, by this topic, of an older gentleman who travelled the U.S., a Doctor Kupler I believe,  and demonstrated various primitive weapons skills.  He really lent credence to "the shorter the more accurate" theory!   His sling was about 15" long I'd say!  He really only plinked around with it, but was quite accurate at short range and would routinely hit small pine boards thrown into the air.  His style was textbook (if there is such a thing in our sport)  He would rapidly whirl the sling over his head faster and faster until release.....I was amazed at his accuracy with such a method!   It was so very short yet it still impressed me that his lead ammo could sometimes snap those little 1/2" pine boards at 30 feet or so.  I am going to try and get some video documentation online in the near future.

Techstuf
I would LOVE to see that! Ultra COOL!!!!!
Johnny

Man I was WAY off.   I checked my videos and found his name to be Dr. Stacy Groscup.  I mutilated his name....my memory with names wreaks!   I will try and dig out my old CWS SuperSling Demo video as well.  Some may be surprised at the accuracy one may obtain and still sling at high velocities!

Peace

Tech
My goal is to pop coffee cans one after another at 25 yards, I have hit 5 gallon buckets @ 75 yards. Don't get me wrong, I can't hit every time! i can usually come within 10 yards of the bucket most of the time.
Johnny

I'm using a 30" sling, and a vertical underhand delivery, with 630deg of spin from start to launch.   In launching a rock, I see that my sling hand makes a circle certainly less than 15" in diameter, and that my elbow is almost stationary.   I do some follow-thru upon launch, but think that's probably after the rock is already on it's way.   Follow-thru and other "body english" adds nothing to range, and messes up accuracy a lot.

For an older/smaller guy, I seem to be getting OK range, ....about 100yards.   Regarding accuracy, I'm about where I was with a bow & arrow after the same small amount of practice.    I ended up being pretty good with a bow, so have hope for the sling.

Finally, this throwing technique is certainly easy on the shoulder, and I dont need a lot of room to get a shot off, BUT moving my sling hand in a small circle, less than 15" in diameter, seems odd when I read about other slingsters' techniques???

All comments/recommendations from my fellow slingsters are welcome.    Many tnx!   mgreenfield

I sling with a vertical, underhand hurl. You are right that it is easy on the shoulder. The horizontal hurl(like a helicopter over the head) kills my shoulder(I'm an old guy also, 41!). I can get good accurate shots with this hurl(vertical).
Johnny

MG,

MG,

I am going to guess that you don't sling large stones--like the size of your fist or a bit smaller? I need a lot more than 15" to throw heavy stones but I also use the same motion for smaller stones and it is very much like a baseball pitchers motion.

Chris thinks he will have the pictures and videos I sent ready to post by next week. Hope some of you other guys --and gals can video some of your slinging!

RE STONE SIZE, .....yeah, I find my "best" sized rock is just 2-3oz.   1.6oz golf balls are too light.  I can get bigger stones launched, but w no velocity or accuracy.   Best practice sessions are for accuracy w tennis balls (2oz) at about 20ft.    Very satisfying loud "whap" into the garage door at that distance.   They're "fluffy" enough to lose velocity fast, so seem pretty safe to use.    mgreenfield

I too, much prefer the underhand delivery for target slinging.  After much experimentation I settled on a single revolution of the sling as it provided me the best ratio of repeatable accuracy and power.  I found the autonomic imprint of a single, very fast sling revolution was very similar to throwing the shuriken overhanded.

TechStuff, ....I start w the "Palestinian Kid" setup; sling held horizontal about shoulder height.   The vertical spin starts pretty gently w a little lift from the knees as the  pocket is released into the spin with a tiny vertical toss.   Total spin is 1-3/4 turns, assuming the release is when the sling cords are pointing about straight down.  

I still get pretty good accuracy w the 1-3/4 turn spin, and I figure as I gain strength, skill & confidence, I'll have the spins available to absorb more and more energy before release.

Even now, I'm occasionally getting a "real bullet" off, ....about 100yards in a fairly flat trajectory.   Those feel great!        mgreenfield

Hondero, .....I think you have something with that elbow-to-finger sling length business!    I started slinging last fall with a 38 inch sling.    Now I know that a "mushy" feel to a sling means it is too long.   A "snappy" feel means the right length.  

The last couple of weeks, I've been shortening my slings every time they begin to feel even a little bit "mushy".   Today I'm down to 25 inches from the pocket-center to the knot.  

Whenever I shorten a sling, I immediately improve accuracy, but lose a little range.   In a few days, the range comes back.     Works good!   mgreenfield

wrote on Mar 6^th, 2004 at 5:31pm:

Today I'm down to 25 inches from the pocket-center to the knot.   Whenever I shorten a sling, I immediately improve accuracy, but lose a little range.   In a few days, the range comes back.     Works good!   mgreenfield

Yes, a 25 inches is a good sling for accuraccy, and even a little less, and the range is good too. Really there is not much difference in range in regard to a longer one except in great distances. You have just to put a little more energy in the throw, but  we the olders of the group are strong enough, aren´t we? ;)