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Message started by xxkid123 on Aug 15th, 2009 at 11:07am

Title: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 15th, 2009 at 11:07am
while slinging is my favorite primitive thing, i also like a bunch of other things. before of course, i used a bent stick bow, but i want to try making a carved bow. after searching about on youtube and paleoplanet i think i can make one. i have a wood ting that is basically a thick rectangular stick. the kind you get from home depot or lowes. i'm thinking that i can make a bow from it, because it's oak, and I've seen a good deal of people with stave's like that before carving, but i don;t know if it will work because it might be to old for it (as in too brittle, while drying a bow out before using is good, super heating it and letting it turn dry-dry might not)

I'll post a picture soon

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Woonilsra on Aug 15th, 2009 at 11:14am
you mean like a board bow?

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Bikewer on Aug 15th, 2009 at 11:24am
It's certainly possible; I have a red-oak "board bow" sitting downstairs right now.   Shoots fine.   Just a piece of red-oak 1 X 2 lumber tillered properly.

However....It's important that the grain structure on your board be right, or you're just cruzin' for a bruisin'.....

I suggest getting a copy of The Primitive Bowyer's Bible (volume 1) which goes into some detail as to what to look for.    Or go to some of the primitive archery websites.

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 15th, 2009 at 4:34pm
right, grain is good, i can sand down the final product, and i only will shave and tiller it to the extent that i can pull it back, it is even, and and the splintery part is gone

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by slingbadger on Aug 16th, 2009 at 11:03am
Right, you want the straightest grain possible, with no knots. Having a bow break on you can be painful, maybe debilitating. The tighter the grain, the better, also.

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 16th, 2009 at 11:49am
it has a straight grain, but it curves around knots. and yeah, the knots aren't good. but i do have the leather you sent me... i can back it with it as soon as i get rubber/contact cement or hot glue for my glue gun ( the type where it gets really hot) to attach it with. and yeah, i did have a bent stick bow snap in my face... and right before a doctor's check up. no damage, because it was a low poundage bow, and bent stick one at that, and at 1/4 draw

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Kjev on Aug 16th, 2009 at 11:54am
I have several ash limbs, but they have knots in them. Would that cause a problem?

And the board bow is a great idea. Off to Lowe's I go!

K'Jev
8-)

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Woonilsra on Aug 16th, 2009 at 12:56pm
http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/oak.htmfor you guys interested in the board bow idea, this guy has great info

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Bikewer on Aug 16th, 2009 at 2:49pm
Right away you're scaring me.  Knots?  In red oak?    Are you sure this is red oak?   I've never seen even one knot in hardware-store boards.

Here is a good link to a "board bow" site; he has nice clear pics of the sort of grain structure you're looking for.
http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/oak.htm

It will be a good idea to apply a backing.  Silk or linen will prevent a marginal piece of lumber from splintering.    Silk neckties can be had for a buck or so at your average Goodwill store.  
I would strongly suggest reading through one of these build-alongs or getting a decent book.

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 16th, 2009 at 4:18pm
i still don't get it, which side do you back the bow with? i think of the back of the bow the belly, and the front of the bow...

also, my bow has knots, but i think it will be a good idea of using up some of my baking soda, following kjev's (i think it was kjev, not too sure) idea

funnily enough, i saw that red oak build along this morning on paleoplanet. the knots i have been drilled out and replaced with a dowel segment. the dowel segment comes out easily enough, and there's only one major one that can't be taken care of.

also, can i use thin deer hide to back a bow? i have a whooping length of it, and although it isn't long enough for my wanted dimensions (54 inch bow) i can also stitch it together, and apply extra backing glue at the area

one last question in my long line of them, i have my dominant eye, now just which way do i hold it? i have held a sling shot comfortable with both hands, and the 2 aren't too different in terms of use

my left eye is dominant, so should my right hand grip the bow, and my left hand pull os that the arrow is directly beneath the dominant eye?

i'm right handed if your wondering

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Bikewer on Aug 16th, 2009 at 6:02pm
The "back" of a bow is the part that faces away from you as you hold it.  The part that's nearest to you is the belly.     No wood removal from the back, other than a slight sanding of the edges.
The backing in this case is to stop splinters from raising, (which cause breakage) and also to hold the thing together if it should fail.   Silk and linen are traditional, but leather can be used as well.
The main thing is to go slowly and carefully; you can't put wood back on.   Usually, the shape of the bow is roughed out, and then all further work is done with hand tools like rasps, scrapers, and sandpaper.
There are plenty of web-pages to show you how the bow should be bending, and how to gradually even things out.    

I use a "tillering tree" which allows the bow to be bent by a rope and pulley arrangement; you can look at it from a few feet away to see how it's going.
Lots of people use a simple notched "tillering board" which holds the bent bow static.
Normally, a right-handed person holds the bow in the left hand, and draws with the right.    Dominant eye is perhaps not as important as when shooting a firearm,, since most archery is done with both eyes using an "instinct" method.

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 17th, 2009 at 10:34am
oh... thanks, now just to start. i'm not going to use a tillering tree though, if it bends right then it's fine for me

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by Bikewer on Aug 17th, 2009 at 11:21am
Tillering IS getting the bow to "bend right".      The reason we use a tillering "tree" or "board" is so you can see how the bow is bending as you work on it.  
If you don't do this in some way, you will end up invariably with either "hinges" (weak spots) or flat spots which are not bending as much as they should.
Either will cause problems; hinges will cause breakage if they are not evened out.   Flat spots will simply make the bow less efficient.

The advantage of a tree is that you can "exercise" the bow as you work it.   The technique is to get your stave to "floor tiller", that is to start an initial smooth bend when braced against the floor and pushed by hand.  That's the "roughed-in shape" stage.
Then we remove a little wood and put it on the tree.  Apply an extra-long string and the pulley and rope, and bend it a little.
Take note of how it's bending, and mark the spots that are too stiff with a pencil; then remove a little wood from those spots.

Eventually, working this way, you arrive at a bow that's starting to bend properly.   Then, it's a matter of gradually removing more and more wood till you arrive at your target weight.   That is, how much poundage it takes to draw the bow to your specific draw length.   (Average is about 28 inches)

Title: Re: can i use this? bow making question
Post by xxkid123 on Aug 17th, 2009 at 3:44pm
sorry about that, i meant the see if it bends, and stuff right was with my leg as a basic tiller, or another simple affair, rather then a special board with nocks cut so that the bow would gradually bend correctly, and you would know exactly when you reach your pull length. just a simple affair like a nail on a strong stick is good for me

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