Some of you folks need to work on your English grammar and spelling. I'm having a hard time understanding your question or point of view. I know I'm no authority on the English language and didn't make straight A's in high school and college, but I try to keep a dictionary at hand and make my sentences comprehensible. I've noticed that our slinging friends from Sweden, Poland, Spain and others are doing a better job(including myself!) with their English grammar. This website is wonderful and I like reading everyone's message, so lets work on our grammar and spelling for the benefit of others!!

thank you Johnny for bringing it up.

I know I´m not so good in english, altough you was nice and mentioned sweden up there..  but I try the best I can to make my message clear. Often I don´t have a dictionary around.
I also have difficulties to understand some messages here in the forum sometimes, and I often wonder if the writer really have english as motherlanguage.

So please stop write slang. Thanks!

... and by the way, I just look the word grammar up...

it ´s grammar  not grammer ;-)

Sorry....  :-[

Ulrica
Well, I get the idiot award!
I read and re-read my article to check for misspelled words but didn't see the obvious! Your English grammar is great! Good work! It is mostly the slang that is hard to understand. I think everyone needs to keep this in mind for those in other countries(where English is a second language).
Thanks Ulrica!!!!!!

I'll leave spelling alone due to the fact I can't spell in several languages. My grammar isn't the best either and agree that our neighbors on this spinning rock have a better grasp of english in many cases... I agree even stronger on slang. Idioms don't translate well. Modern American english (as much as I hate to call it that) slang is just getting to the point that it should probably be classified as it's own language ie. ebonics. The sad part is proper english is not understood in the U.S. by many who grew up in it's borders, graduated High School...
etc.... I'll stop before I launch into a full rant...

You are welcome, Johnny!

I bet I make a lot more mistakes then you, but I thought  the headline should be right spelled ;-)
I hope you can forgive me, playing bully for this time.

/Ulrica

Ulrica
We know that Viking women are very tough!!
My wife has Scandinavian origins!!
Johnny

I apologize for any use of slang.  I was raised redneck (sorry -- I was brought up in the rural traditions of mid-western America) and I tend to regress into the use of my boyhood dialect when I'm in a good mood or relaxed.  Strangely enough, I'm in a good mood more often when slinging, braiding slings, or discussing slinging related topics.

F.Y.I.  (For your information)

Yup=yes
Nope=no
shucks=(mild expletive)
git=get
ya=you
doncha, woncha, cancha=don't you, won't you, can't you

I've also noticed an increase in the use of 'e-mailisms,' or phrases and abbreviations peculiar to American (and English?) internet usage

lol=laugh out loud
rofl=rolling on the floor laughing
btw=by the way

I'll try harder to be true to my English teachers' curriculum in the future.  Please, don't be afraid to ask if you don't understand something.  Nobody will think less of you, especially the pathetic mono-linguists like myself.  I can't even master Spanish, and Colorado has a huge Mexican/Latino community!

Hobb
I thought "lol" was,"lots of laughs!". Well, I learned something new! I'm from Tennessee, and I can be bad about using "southern slang" on occasion!
I hope y'all understand!
Johnny

wrote on May 5^th, 2004 at 2:05pm:

Modern American english (as much as I hate to call it that) ...

??? You hate to call it modern, American, or English?

I get the feeling that you don't like calling your language after the name of a foreign country ... don't be so proud ... we English are forced to call it that, from the Angles, Scandanavian raiders who settled here centuries ago. So you see, it ain't our language either!

Nothing to get ranty about, honest!  8)

If Johnny had meant to distinguish terms....He could easily have done so....or haven't you heard of the concept:  "The sum is greater than the parts"?    Oh, and Johnny.....you are going to have to change your 'ranty' ways lest you be taught a lesson from across the pond!  Now go to your room and I mean it....honest!

It's just sgrs9's post I'm counter-ranting. Can a person counter-rant ... on a grammar thread?  :o

Most certainly......and I was just subconsciouly counter-ranting Johnny's initial rant by my inadvertent transposition of his name for Srgs9's.....all in good fun.....afterall,  I'm as ranty as the next person.... :-[  In all honesty,  I hadn't considered the potential onus that some of my 'linguistic gymnastics' might put upon those of the slinging forum family whose grasp of english may be marginal, at best.  Johnny's post has made me more aware of my own intermittent lack of consideration for those whose problems with our language are far from mitigated by our choice of speech, coupled with the so called 'universal translator' web applications in use today.   And from now on,  I've decided there shall be no further counter-rantyness to be displayed henceforth.   Unless of course,  it has been submitted for approval to my dizzying intellect, which shineth forth like a bright beacon on a cold, dark night.  

P.S.  If I offend,  it is only because I work too hard for very little pay in my dark and dusty corner of the world and alas,  this fine haven is become my only outlet of pseudo-creative expression.   No good rant truly makes perfect sense, else it lose it's wild, boisterous edge......and yes Mithras,  I know where I fall in that category.  :-/

yah i too suck at spelling and grammer. but i don't think it matters because most of my stuff ppl can understand. but in the future, i will try harder to be understood.

Does everyone know that German almost became our official language? In the early 1800's, because of the huge German population, Congress voted to make either English or German the official language. German lost by one vote!!!!! That could have changed the whole course of history! WWI.....WWII......

That is one urban legend that just won't die.....It is however, based upon very real concerns of the period.  Here's a link:

http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

When I first started to read your comment,  I thought you might be referencing the German Juggernaut war machine of WW2......it is 'rumored' that had just a few critical decisions been changed by one or both sides, that we ALL may be speaking German today!  She certainly was far in advance of the rest of the world in many areas of technology.....many western scientists refuting the 'impossiblity' of her rocket technology right up until they started landing on Britain!   Johnny, do a google on New Schwabenland......foo fighters and Viktor Schauberger......now if that ain't the makins of an urban legend....... ;)

I love spelling/grammar threads... (and subtle humo_ur) 'rumo_ur' has it that you're not a real discussion group until you've had at least one!

As far as "American English" goes the few brits I know have used that term regularly... If anything I was making a comment on the degradation of the language here in the states.

Tech
I stand corrected!
I've heard that "urban legend" for years from many people. That's incredible.
Thanks for setting me straight!
Johnny

Can I rant?  Can I?

On one side, you've got the English professors, who want the language written and spoken the same way it's "always" been written and spoken, and if you can revive the use of some arcane word or phrase, good for you.  If they had their way all the time, language would stagnate and die, or at least become quite dull.

On the other side, you've got teenagers, country bumpkins, and the rest of the pre- or un-educated masses, individuals who want to use language that makes sense on a personal level, not to mention the overly educated specialists invested in the use of jargon.  If they had their ways, the language would deteriorate into nonsensical babel.

Since the goal is communication, and since this forum has such a large international contingent, it makes sense to use accepted rules of grammar, capitalization, spelling, etc., and to avoid abbreviations, excepting situations where slinging jargon is appropriate (e.g., The release node on my lovelock keeps hitting the retention, so the glandes hangs in the cradle and all I get with my underhand are hummers!)

Somebody please tell me what the blazes he just said?!   (lol)  good point, Hobb. :)

It makes me think of the tower of Babel.......Just as today's engineers can launch an orbital telescope with a near fatal flaw based upon 'language' differences....perhaps that shows how easily languages split and evolve.  If one can accept the Babel account....then perhaps it went down something like this:   Over time, as work became more efficient, the respective trades divided into highly compartmentalized groups, each evolving according it's style and allowed slang to creep in slowly and unnoticed.  As each group stuck to it's own......over time, only the taskmasters themselves maintained the necessary retention of the former language and interpreted each for their respective group.   At this point, after much time elapsed.....all one need have done is remove the key personnel and voila'......complete discord.......(just a thought)  Certainly the bards of old, were they to be resurrected here in our day, would be hard pressed to converse with a fair portion of modern america!

What do I know? But I believe that language is simply the accepted mode of communication amongst a certain population. If it makes sense to those who use it (LA gangs, Australian Aboriginines, New England lawyers, Philipino sailors on container ships ... then its an accepted language.

It doesn't belong in books at all. Language is real and fluid and ever changing, it will never be 'correct'.

But what do I know?

I note that you dually mention the phrase,  "what do I know?"  That is a question worth asking twice in the least.  Just what do you know 'Mithras'?    :-/    

A language is dynamic; change all the time! So in the past and it´s going on as we talk!

In swedish we got more and more english words that after a while become so common, so we "make" them swedish. It´s mostly computer-terms or other technical words... Does it make the swedish more rich or poor? It just the way it is.
Earlier, some hundreds years ago ( I suppose) we got a lot of german words because of all germanpeople that lived here back then.. Now we hardly think of that, but the two languages are very similar if one compare them.

But the gramma-rules stays longer. You just adjust new words to the old rules.

Sometimes it goes little bit to fast with new words though, and if you are not communicating so often with people from england or the USA you can not understand the new words. And often they aren´t to be found in a dictionary..

But keep on talking an keep the language alive!

Ulrica

Language is simply a means of expressing one's feelings, and if you feel that "shucks" accurately tells someone else what you are feeling, then so be it.  Grammar rules are fairly silly; I much prefer Chinese, where basically, anything goes, so long as the words are there.  No noun declensions, no verb conjugations, no cases, no awkward and obscure pronouns... it is lovely.  The only difficult thing is pronunciation.
 The Tower of Babel, where everyone speaks the same language, is a real possibility.  Some linguists think that all languages descended from one original language; archaeologists know that all humans came from Africa, pretty much all in the same place.  The problem is:  did humans acquire language capabilities before or after they spread out and left the continent?  Obviously, if before, then they spoke one language, and if after, they spoke many.  If all languages come from one, then language groups are irrelevant, whether they are indo-european, ural-altaic, sino-tibetan, malayo-polynesian or iroquoian.  Hence, as all language has been fluid and changing as the evidence of language splits suggests then surely it should be fluid and changing now, and as such, grammar rules should be essenitally made redundant and language should be easily understandable (sounds like a bit of a "duh" statement, but really, most languages are startlingly complex.)  
 I have studied a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of languages, and I know how complex grammar rules can get, and to be honest, I wish they would disappear sometimes.  I hate the cases in Russian most of all; why do you need seven?  Why not just use a simpler idea, of word position?
So basically, we should all speak so that others can understand, rather than according to rules.

Sorry if I make any mistakes, but I'm from Dominican Republic.

I can talk the Ghetto English very well, and I can translate it. Here's the dictionary.

Ghetto's Dicctionary:

2: to.
' at end: e (4 exampl': I lik'-like it) or g (4 exampl': runnin'-running).
4: for.
' in da beguinin': a (4 exampl': 'bout-about).
Iight: ok.
Da: the.
Ma: my.
a at end: er (4 exampl': playa-player).
k: ch (4 example: skool-school).
k: ok.
Cuz: cause-because.
Gon': gonna-goin to.
Wan': wanna-want to.
Wut: what.
Wuz: what's.
Ya-U: you.
o': of.
N: and.
Dat: that.
Dis: this.
r: are.

If you have some dudes about a any post, you can ask me to transfer it.

wrote on May 6^th, 2004 at 4:57pm:

Most certainly......and I was just subconsciouly counter-ranting Johnny's initial rant by my inadvertent transposition of his name for Srgs9's.....all in good fun.....afterall,  I'm as ranty as the next person.... :-[  In all honesty,  I hadn't considered the potential onus that some of my 'linguistic gymnastics' might put upon those of the slinging forum family whose grasp of english may be marginal, at best.  Johnny's post has made me more aware of my own intermittent lack of consideration for those whose problems with our language are far from mitigated by our choice of speech, coupled with the so called 'universal translator' web applications in use today.   And from now on,  I've decided there shall be no further counter-rantyness to be displayed henceforth.   Unless of course,  it has been submitted for approval to my dizzying intellect, which shineth forth like a bright beacon on a cold, dark night.   P.S.  If I offend,  it is only because I work too hard for very little pay in my dark and dusty corner of the world and alas,  this fine haven is become my only outlet of pseudo-creative expression.   No good rant truly makes perfect sense, else it lose it's wild, boisterous edge......and yes Mithras,  I know where I fall in that category.  :-/

What ???

:) I have an Oxford dictionary right beside me. :)

Google me, BK.


It gets worse.


Much worse.


But then, of course,  


I am always willing to be forgiven.


:D


TS

Google you? I don't even Know you!!!!!! :o

Yer jus lucky dat wea all don talk alike we do in B'ffalah NY, dem dere hey?
 Nah one wud unnerstan wat da hell wuz goin on!!


    ( I am SOOO glad I wasn't brought up in the City)

hmmm I am crossing forums now.
Does the book need a Glossary?