"All that is required for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."



There was a man from L.A. California who went on a short trip, but forgot and left the front door wide open.  He also laid off his housekeeper.



He returned in a short time to find that the status quo in his household had changed considerably.  



Chris, no offense but you've allowed your forum to become largely a hooligan playground. Where no serious topic goes unhijacked by those whose rage and irresponsibilty clearly run counter to your core membership.....Responsible slingers.   Our forum is a pale shadow of it's former self.  The reasons for this are clear and several fold.  



My thanks to you and the great core group of forum members whose positive participation made this forum one to remember.




God bless you all,




TS

wrote on Apr 12^th, 2006 at 3:14pm:

Chris, no offense but you've allowed your forum to become largely a hooligan playground.

We've allowed our forum.

The forum has survived quite nicely without heavy top-down control of posters and topics. Instead of relying on the mods to reign in discussions that have gone awry, all that is required is for everyone to ask themselves what they would do if they were mods. I don't like the attitude that we'll see how far we can push things before a thread gets locked, while relying on someone else to make that decision. Bolstering one's own feeling of self-worth isn't a good enough reason to bring down a community, or maybe that's just me.

Restraint.

We've had a few discussions about the roll of the moderators in the past, and I'm open to suggestions from members. We mods are appointed by Chris, with the trust that we will do our best to manage slinging.org. The tradition here has been one of a very light guiding hand, but maybe with the growth in membership we've experienced we need more? I don't think we're there yet, but I'd like to hear some opinions.

Particularily annoying is that, in recent discussions, some of our most useful and long-time contibutors seem to have trouble holding back. Honestly, I don't (and don't wish to) mod the more established members of our group to the same extent that I do newcomers. It sure would be nice if everyone could just step up and respond to the trust that Chris, the mods and the membership place in them, and reward the hard work that goes into providing this forum and keeping it running with behaviour that builds on rather than tears at the foundation created.

Matthias

Could it be that you are referring to me?  A hooligan?  Middle-class, English, me?
 Alright, I'll hold back.  Maybe others should do the same.  I, myself, am a responsible slinger.  My slings are actually well-used.  I rarely have anything to say on the issue of slings, because I am not knowledgable about them in the way that others are, but I sling regularly into a lake to relieve stress, amongst other things.
 I believe it is, perhaps, the height of hypocrisy to call others in for blame on the issue of hijacking the forums.  I admit, I have been somewhat aggressive in the discussions, and that will be stopped.  But to simply state that the forums are a mess is a little silly.  Don't bring up controversial topics, and controversial topics won't come to you.  If you wish to discuss forum conduct at any time, just pm, and I'll be there.
 I also resent the implication that I am evil.  However, if you can demonstrate my evilness, I would appreciate it, preferably by pm.
Happy days. :)

Quote:

Chris, no offense but you've allowed your forum to become largely a hooligan playground. Where no serious topic goes unhijacked by those whose rage and irresponsibilty clearly run counter to your core membership.....Responsible slingers.   Our forum is a pale shadow of it's former self.  The reasons for this are clear and several fold.   My thanks to you and the great core group of forum members whose positive participation made this forum one to remember.

The topics are the same topics that we have had hear since it started. Slings, Bomb, other weapons, and of coarse just plain old talk. We do have a lot of members now but not a lot of posting members. Most of the topic that i see is were a new person creates a topic then someone post the old topic  were it was discussed before and then there is nothing to talk about after that. It kinda kills the new topic. Then all there is to do after that is talk about anything.


Quote:

The reasons for this are clear and several fold.

explain please


I have been trying to not post as much latey, just sit back a listen to conversation. I post when someone needs help or a topic really interests me. I have been hear every day like always since this forum started. It might be easy for someone who leaves for a while and when they come back kinda complain. The forum goes thur a cycle like it always has. People coming and going; interesting times and boring; people causing trouble and people being polite.

My best advise is to start interesting topics. A good informative topic will draw more good people into the websight and in turn spark more intellegent conversation.

Hear, hear!

Yes, there is a LOT of information squirrelled away deep in the forum threads.  Many questions might never be asked if people would just search the forum before posting a question --- but so what?  New conversations about old topics can shed new light!  It's happened several times that I remember.  Besides, it is fun seeing the current crop of newbies enthuse (as I hope it was fun for others, reading about my discoveries of what they already knew, a year ago)!   Except when somebody talks about doing something dumb (as in, "Don't do that!  My head hurt for DAYS after I did that!"  ;D )

I remember posting this thread already.... Then it got      hi-jacked.

See, now I like these forums because of the variety and intelligence of the argument/discussion.

It looks to me like techstuff is allowing his own - increasingly polarised - views to colour the way he sees the forum.
When subjects are discussed that he disagrees with he sulks.
The rest of us think:'great let's have a rational discussion and see who throws their toys out of the pram first :-)

I occasionally have a comment on the slinging forums and occasionally on others.
But 'hijacked by hooligans' I mean apart from ben-banned (lol) does he have anyone specific in mind or just the majority of the human race who believe in evolution ?

Still even this discussion illustrates my point - it's all grist to the philosophical mill innit :-)

Life ends too quickly, those with tunnel vision seem to miss all the great things along the edges.
It's their choice, but sad all the same :-)

Broaden your horizons techstuff old mate, we all live in greenhouses and we all own slings - reach your own conclusion :-)

I think the large and compact majority of us here are very responsible slingers and that reflects in our posts. I know for a fact that I have, several times, at least, posted my own rules for slinging responsibly. i.e. no-one around for 100 yards in any direct, never throw in the direction of housing or vehicles, never throw over streets, etc...and I know others have done the same. I know many of us, but not all, by any means, and you know to whom I refer, have tried to keep the threads on topic as much as is possible, but sometimes they get sidetracked, and amusingly so (here I reference the "What you look like" thread slowly metamorphosing into the "Bjarn tells lovely Norse legends" thread. I for one, loved that.) But some of us post very off topic threads, which in turns incites responses that are equally off the topic of slinging and crosses the realm of what should be dealt with in PM's and on other boards. For the record, though, some of these topics are very thought provoking, and could, should they be dealt with more maturely and temperately, be very interesting. Some, I have seen, are intentionally vehement and inflammatory and seem to be created with the hope of causing strife and striking out. I don't name names, and I will not, because they know who they are. Some, have nothing to do with slinging whatsoever. but, I think a certain amount of personal restraint in the replies is called for. If you don;t like what the other person says, and can't seem to reply in a civil way, or you think that no matter what you say the other person is going to take it personally, then don't reply. Obviously, we cannot be held responsible for the actions of others as a monolithic whole, only our own contributions can be judged accordingly.

Some of my best friends are ....hooligans ;D

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 9:37am:

Some of my best friends are ....hooligans ;D

Hmmm...  o.k. have to hi-jack this thread  ;D

For English:

"No one likes us, No one likes us and we don't care. We are Millwall, Super Millwall from the Den!" ;D

(I have a few hooligan (football,or soccer) friends myself  ;D)

Sorry had to be done, you can have this thread back.

I often find myself being a hooligan but Im gonna have to agree with tech.

I think that it's all going pretty well.

Threads wander, but it's only naturual as the nature of the forum is conversational. That's just how conversations work. They usually only begin to wander only when they've been fairly exhausted; this does not however stop people from continuing to contribute to the stated purpose. What's wrong with evolution? As long as what's being posted is almost always making people happy, mostly informative, and usually along the lines of primitive tech, I think that it's fine.

Good things:
~Self regulating community- we get along fairly well, and tell each other when it's time to stop.
~Highly intelligent members still exist and contribute, while nearly all members and guests are knowledgeable and helpful.
~Witty commentary is appreciated and generally approved of- off topic perhaps at times but all in good humor.
~Topics that are 'scholarly' and serious tend to stay on track, such as the cestros. Project Goliath threads stay pretty clean (although this may be gradually deteriorating)
~People are pretty good about using the administrative and other topics rather than clogging general and other weapons.
~These threads are visited by guests, showing that what we do here IS still helping other people with informal (and in some cases formal) research as well as projects. THAT is the purpose of these forums right? To be informative, promote slinging (and primitive tech in general), and bring in new voices.

Improvement needed:
~Certain people need to remember that Google exists and not be lazy.
~While it is good to refresh old topics... it should be exactly that, bringing up old threads- NOT starting new topics about things that already exist.
~Try to cut down a little bit on political and religous topics.
~Keep our debates as debates, not letting them grow into arguments.
~Perhaps cut down a bit on the chitchat outside of the other topics forum.
~Stay objective and try to not let opinions from one thread seep publicly into other threads.
~Keep new threads interesting and important: While we need new threads to keep things interesting and to accomodate growth, frivolous threads or a surplus of them detract from more important areas where focus should be given.

I am aware that I am guilty of several of these things, and am not trying to pass them off on someone else, I'll work to improve my faults, hopefully you'll do the same.

Thank you to the administrators who help keep the forum in good order without overly using powers. The fact that you guys are slingers like everyone else here, and that you contribute your ideas (showing that you're actually intelligent, good people) really means a lot to me.

I had a couple of ideas for additions while writing this but forget them all  :o.

All in all, it's going fairly well. Although I haven't been here for long, it appears as though everything happens in cycles. Newcomers who none of us like but don't want to comment on, tend to burn out quickly and don't pose a long term threat to the forum. This appears to have been going on for a very long time.... look in the back threads if you don't believe me.

Alright I keep trying to wrap this up but keep failing, so I apologize for the ungraceful and abrubt end.

Yea but you have to remember you joined after tech left. It was much better then.  No retarded topics, and people werent starting a new topic everyday.

Who was tech...? Sorry, I did attempt a search but 20 topics down only got me 18 hours into the past...

Perhaps a VFD (vote for deletion) like Wikipedia. you just cast your vote, the more experienced a member the more power their vote has. I think that would be nice except that it would end up with a ton of controversey and arguing.... being more counterproductive than helpful in the end.

For fairly extreme cases though, how about a VFD where you simply cast your vote... no verbose or long paragraphs explaining why- The hope being that the flaw in any thread being voted for deletion would be so obvious that it need not any explanation. A page, perhaps only visible to mods and/or godly members dislpays the tally (including who voted what) and mods can then make a majority-based desicion.


I don't think we're quite that bad yet though, and such a process isn't really required, since I have faith in the current admins. Well just my thought.

Techstuff

wrote on Apr 13^th, 2006 at 9:30pm:

Yea but you have to remember you joined after tech left. It was much better then.  No retarded topics, and people werent starting a new topic everyday.

But... he's still here. I don't know whether i'm reading this wrong, or just not getting some sarcasm or if you made a mistake writing it.

TS is still very active.... started this thread..?.??

to fill you in, Techstuff is one of our long time members (2/2004 join date) and a while ago, he left. It sort of left us all puzzled, and we had no clue what happened to him,  but as you can see, he's returned to us. BTW, what does LCD stand for? It is Least Common Denominator or some other acronysm I don;t get?

When I read the thread name i thought it was some thing to do with Liquid Crystal Display or something.  But how wrong was I?

" Last Christian Dialogue"? ;D

That actually made me laugh out loud. Thanks :)

I think this is what he means look at this this thread is being hijacked.

Well, I'd consider discussing the title to be on topic.

But this has been around for a couple days, people have already expressed their opinions, and so are now moving on to help lighten the mood a bit. I have no fear that it will be difficult to bring this back on topic... all it would take is another person to post their opinion or potential solutions to the problem.




P.S.  Nothing personal, we all need to work on it:

This is an actual problem http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=project;action=display;num=1144761747;start=10
Especially in Project Goliath...

Wasn't Ben(banned) complaining about there not being enough "hooliganism" and that the forums had "softened up" a few months back?

When someone posts something that derails the thread and takes it in a new direction it is hardly a bad thing if the discussion continues and develops, and that has been happening for a long time.

The posters we have here are very spontaneous and jump on to new ideas rather quickly.

Humans are naturally ambivalent , TechStuff, I think you are choosing to see only one aspect of the conversations here.

And I think what makes your post seem even more inflammatory is "The reasons for this are clear and several fold.". You don't provide any solutions... and you don't highlight any problem.

What then was the point?

wrote on Apr 14^th, 2006 at 11:27pm:

Wasn't Ben(banned) complaining about there not being enough "hooliganism" and that the forums had "softened up" a few months back? When someone posts something that derails the thread and takes it in a new direction it is hardly a bad thing if the discussion continues and develops, and that has been happening for a long time. The posters we have here are very spontaneous and jump on to new ideas rather quickly. Humans are naturally ambivalent , TechStuff, I think you are choosing to see only one aspect of the conversations here. And I think what makes your post seem even more inflammatory is "The reasons for this are clear and several fold.". You don't provide any solutions... and you don't highlight any problem. What then was the point?

Yes I also said I missed the old forums and know weve grown soft.  Hijacking a tthread isnt really what I consider hooliganism...or fun.

Quote:

Chris, no offense but you've allowed your forum to become largely a hooligan playground. Where no serious topic goes unhijacked by those whose rage and irresponsibilty clearly run counter to your core membership.....Responsible slingers.   Our forum is a pale shadow of it's former self.  The reasons for this are clear and several fold.

Techstuf,

I'm sorry you feel this way.  Perhaps I am responsible;  I wish I had more time to participate in the forum.  However, the fact is, I don't.  What little time I have available I spend helping people in the most productive way I can: scaling and uploading hundreds of people's pictures to the site, putting up articles, adding peoples slings to the gallery, setting up a wiki, etc. etc.  I leave the direct moderation to people I have the utmost respect for, and who are willing to volunteer their time to keep this forum productive, safe, and fun.  

The forum has changed a good deal since coming online years ago.  While some topics get "hijacked", I don't believe it's because of malicious intent.  I think people are enthusiastic and want to participate, even if it's slightly off-topic.  As the number of active people on the forum multiplied from a few dozen to perhaps a hundred or more, this effect became more noticeable.  But this phenomena is not new.  

I think all of this new discussion on the forum is a sign of growth.  Although the topic may wander sometimes, new friendships are being created and sling techniques developed...  And that is the whole point of this forum.

You've been a part of this forum for a long time, and I hope this is not your final post.  

Chris