Yurek, good news¡¡. Finally I have made contact with the world´s record holders David P. Engvall and Larry Bray. I´ve told both you are writting them. Look at the instant messages for more details.  I hope you´ll publish here the most interesting messages they send to you  ;).



To: Jesus Vega

I understand that you have a friend interested in sling distance
throwing.
As far as I know I still hold the record of 1565 ft. 4 in. set on
September 13, 1992
at Baldwin (dry) Lake, California.

I would be interested to hear of your progress.

I will be out of town this coming week. But I will be glad to offer
assistance when
I get back if you are interested.


Best Regards,
David P. Engvall





Hi Jesus,

I held the record through most of the 80's and early 90's. I threw a rock with a home made sling with a leather pouch. Fell free to get in touch with me if you would like.

Larry Bray

Hondero,

Thank you very much. I will inform you all if got to know something new, as so far.

Jurek

Thanks, Hondero, for finding those guys!  It looks like 1565 feet is the distance to beat.

A dry lake, what a good idea. I wonder how they dealt with 'bounce?'  

I wish we could all get together and see one of us beat that record!   ;D

I wonder if they have any restrictions? Could you spray the projectile with silicone to decrease friction?

Go for it Yurek !!!

Can you give a description of the slings and the size and weight of the stone?

I hope these men send us information about all these aspects. I´m very interesting in sling details and throwing technique.

The resistance between air and silicone versus air and lead is nil.  However, the resistance between air and air is slightly less. So, the trick is to make sure a little air remains attached to the glandes. One way is to rub the glandes with 400 grit sandpaper perpendicular to the throw axis. The fine grooves trap a layer of air improving performance.

Dan,

I think you are right. First golf-balls were just very smooth. Once one guy had observed that old and scratched ones flew further than smooth ones. That "paradox" caused that people started using dimpled golf-balls afterwards. The dimples reduce the air boudary layer and as a result size of the wake is smaller.

Jurek

Cool :o

Yurek,  I think we are talking about two distinct phenomenon.  The microgrooves I was talking about only work in shapes already well shaped aerodynamically like an airfoil as a way of reducing a small amount of drag by improving boundary layer attachment.

What you are talking about is creating an intentional turbulent flow around a poorly formed shape like a sphere. Turbulent flow on the backside of the object has slightly less drag than a poorly attached one.

Ultralight builderse learned this. They taped a piece of string at 10 O'clock and 2 O'clock (with 12 O'clock the direction of travel) on round struts. It reduced drag and saved them the expensive of the more expensive, properly shaped struts.  Dan

And fast backspin on the golf ball creates a region of lowered air pressure on the top of the ball and a region of raised pressure on the bottom of the ball, making it actually fly aerodynamically.   A properly hit golf ball is a thing of great (aerodynamic) beauty in flight.    mgreenfield

I believe you. And, I don't see how it would be possible to put backspin on a slingstone to improve flight. Generally, pouches give the slingstones a 'roll' rotation, not a 'pitch' rotation.   Dan

Quote:

Yurek,  I think we are talking about two distinct phenomenon.  The microgrooves I was talking about only work in shapes already well shaped aerodynamically like an airfoil as a way of reducing a small amount of drag by improving boundary layer attachment...

Dan,

I really mixed two those things, I didn't consider that the air should flow laminarly along of the almost whole perfect airfoil and just its shape causes a very narrow wake (turbulent air flow behind). So the dimples have nothing to do in that case. The microgrooves stop a very thin adjacent air layer, so the friction is only between the air layers but not between the projectile and air. I hope I have anderstood it corectly.

On golf-balls, as I know the dimples give two adventages, they reduce the air drag and intensify the Mangus effect (mentioned by mgreenfield). But for slingers, the Mangus effect is't friendly, really.

Yurek,  You have accurately stated what I have heard to be true. One cannot escape friction or gravity on this planet!

Friction??  Gravity??   At my age, I hate 'em both!   mgreenfield

Wow this is exciting.  My hands have been unable to type much, or even use a mouse much, but I think I'm doing a little better.  That's awesome that Jesus got in touch with the world record holders!  And our discussions are going so far..., without me!  Oh well, like I said, I think I'm improving and hope to be back soon.

Ben,

We are waiting for you. Take care for your hands, and come back as soon as possible!

Greetings,

Jurek

Whip Man,

What did you do to your hands?

Nice you feel better. I´ve thougt you´ve changed finally the sling for the whip  :)

I just found this website today.  How exciting!  I didn't know there were so many people out there goofing around with these things. I have pondered getting more active again with throwing and have built several new slings that are far superior to what I used for the record.  I have also worked on projectiles that are much more aerodynamic than the stone I threw in 1981.  I need to be careful though to not give away too many of my secrets! :)  I need all the advantages in my favor to stay ahead of the young guys.

P.S.  What more do I have to do to not be called a newbie?

Wow! I'm so excited!

Welcome! Just the record maker from 1981 in person!!! First I want to gratulate your great achievment. I really impresed, 1434 ft with stone! We have a lot questions to you and we don't let you escape from here as long as we will know all your secrets ;) Later too :) There are so many questions for you :)

Chris (administrator) should give you the honourable member status.

Jurek

Can you give us at least 75% of your information?!
I'm not interested in competing for distance, mostly for accuracy at around 50-75 yards. I have hit a 5 gallon bucket at this distance, but not with every cast! How old are you Ibray? I'm 41 and love slinging everyday. My shoulder lets me hurl underhanded only, any other way and my shoulder jolts with PAIN!! Where can we read about your record? Guiness book of world records? It is great having you on this discussion site!
Johnny

Welcome  Sling Master ;D

Tell us a few stories. How did you get interested in the sling? Was your record set using the overhand or underhand release?

This is a fun place! Hang around!

It is great fun reading your posts and absorbing everyones enthusiasm.  I am 43 years old now, I was 20 when I set the record in 1981.  I grew up in Utah (USA) and started throwing when I was maybe 10.  My dad showed me how to throw and I started building slings and fell in love with the sight of a well thrown stone climbing out of sight and disappearing into the distance.  My record was in the Guinness Book from about 1983 through 1992 or so.  Some editions had it, others didn't.  I am disappointed that they seem to have phased the category out of the book in recent years.  

The record I broke was set by Melvin Gaylor from Great Britain.  I am still in awe that he threw an 8 or 10 oz. (I don't remember exactly) stone 1147 ft.  A projectile that heavy would tear my arm clear off and wouldn't travel more than 500 ft.  I threw a 2 oz stone with a 51 inch sling (measured from the release knot to the middle of the pouch).  I braided the strings from dacron bowstring thread and the pouch was leather from an elk my dad had killed.  The stone was oblong with a circular cross section.  In flight it was spinning on its axis like a football.  I throw with an overhand release usually with just one rotation of the sling before throwing.  

When I set my record there were no restrictions.  My brother and I went out and measured a throw of about 1250 ft and sent it in.  Guinness wrote back saying they would not accept that as a record due to insufficient documentation.  The next summer we set up to throw during the county fair, had lots of witnesses, arranged for a licenced surveyor to measure, etc.  The 1434 ft throw was the longest one we could recover and Guinness accepted it.  

The two issues relevant to a new record are release velocity and projectile aerodynamics.  I believe David Engvall's "dart" for the current record was far superior to my stone aerodynamically.  I fantasize about trying to break his 1565 ft record.  That is probably not realistic but I plan to get back into throwing shape this summer and see how far I can throw.

Not to discredit David's great throw, but I would like to see the record restored using more historically correct equipment.  I think the more traditional the equipment, the more likely Guinness would include the category in their book.

Again, I am thrilled to have found this website.  I am happy to correspond, answer questions, etc.  Great throwing everyone!

Thank you for sharing that. I agree with the idea of trying to keep things basic.

I slung my first stone in August and haven't stopped. I probably sling at least 2 hours a week. There is a concrete plant near my house and my son and I go to the bakside of it where they have piles of crushed concrete. Its hard on slings but great fun.

I just arrive from another thread where I welcome you since I´ve not seen your appearance in this... Then that, It is a pleasure to find you in the forum, and prepare yourself to give us piles of information... :D

Jesús  

@ Larry Bray

I also want to welcome you!
It´s great to have you around!!

And about newbie, after 10 posts you will become a Junior Member, and after 51 posts it will change to Full member. And so it will go on..
It´s how many posts you make, who decide the status.


Ulrica

What did David Envall's dart look like? It was hurled from a sling? Kind of sounds like the Cestrosphendon! Can you describe it?
Thanks

Ulrica,  I'm still a 'Junior Member' at 50 posts. This will be my 51st. Let's see if it changes when I hit the 'post' button.  :)


Yep!  Above 50 you become a 'Full Member'.  WooHoo!   ;D

Congratulations, Dan!!

;D

Okay, I change my earlier post... from 40 post to 51.
My memory is not the best ;-)

Ulrica

There was a picture of David Engvall's equipment in the Guinness Book in the mid 1990's.  The "sling" looked like a braided whip with a small hook on the end that connected to the projectile.  I don't know how long it was.  I don't know if it had two strings or just one, it looked like only one.  The projectile appeared to be maybe 6 inches long.  It was a smoothly contoured dart with 4 fins on the tail for stability.  I have corresponded with David a few times by email.  I have great respect for his ability and ingenuity.  What I described above is my interpretation of what I saw in the photo.  

Larry
Are you familar with the Cestrosphendon? There should be a thread on this website describing it. It was a deadly weapon in the hands of the Macedonians when they were fighting the Romans. A dart hurled by a special sling.
What is a traditional sling in your opinion?
I braid mine out of sisal twine.
Thanks
Johnny

Larry, interesting invention but I think that weapon have not existed before, though it can be called "sling" as it is whirled and cast a non conventional proyectile somehow (I imagine  it has two strings though one is only for release and all the weight is bored on the other). I´m anxious to know the artefact. Like Johnny says it could be better called cestrosphendon because of the dart.

I have heard reference to the Cestrosphendon but know nothing about it except what you just told me.  It sounds similar to what I saw in the photo.  An absolutely ingenius design.  

The slings I have used are of traditional design but made of more modern materials.   Synthetic fibers for the strings for example.  The world record sling had nylon strings with a simple knot for release and a leather loop for my middle finger.  The pouch was leather with a small hole in the center that seems to help cradle the projectile.  As I have mentioned before, I am captivated by the sight of a stone or pellet leaving the pouch at high velocity and watching it zing out of sight like when the Enterprise on Star Trek goes to warp speed and just dissappears into the distance.  I have never been able to get the level of performance I crave from slings woven from natural fibers.  They are better suited for throwing larger stones at lower velocities.  I am not a true traditionalist in that sense and I would not encourage bias amongst ourselves regarding the issue of traditional vs. non-traditional.  Each of us seems to be drawn to this activity for slightly different reasons and we all love it.  I am amazed at the discussions on this forum regarding projectile shape, delivery technique, sling design, pouch design, fishing, hunting, bumper stickers, throwing from horseback, etc., etc.  

I am just happy to have found this sight and feel privileged to hear your ideas and anecdotes.  It cracks me up to find a bunch of other crazy people just like me.  I thought I was alone on this planet!

Yeah Larry, I thought I was the only crazy guy that like to hurl stones for hours ! I will try out the nylon this weekend. I'll buy some nylon string and try crafting one. I have plenty of Dacron string(I also make primitive bows and arrows) that I would like to try out. Do some braiding. Is Dacron good for slings?  I've been enthralled with slings from my youth. Growing up hearing about David and Goliath, the Benjaminites(Judges 20:16), Balearic slingers, Xenophon's Rhodians(The Persian Expedition), etc, thrills my imagination!!  I'm 41 yrs old but still have a creative, youthful attitude! Never a dull moment with slings!
Johnny

Found it! Thanks to Larry's hint.  Here is Engvall's equipment. For a better image download from the link below.  

http://www.claycritters.com/sling/EngvallSlingDart-thumb.jpg

http://www.claycritters.com/sling/Engvall%20Sling%20Dart.jpg

So many interesting posts here!



Lary,

Thank you for your posts. I love slinging for a range too. I prefer useing long slings and same like you admire the evanecent stones, but I'm afraid that my sight isn't as good as yours :D

I honour both your and David Engvall's successes. I admire David for his inventiveness and you for the power of your shots. Same like you and some other guys here I thought that I'm the alone crazy slinging maniac in the world. Fortunately I have found this site. I had come back to slinnging after many years, when I made the sling for my son. I played with a sling as boy a few good years. I mainly sling the common granite stones which I gather just from the ground along the reilway line. I had thought that my shots was pretty far until I read that you reached 1434 ft just with stones!

I don't think that my best stone shots exceeded 360 m (1180 ft) limit. So I really value your record. I prefer the stones with a mass 100-150 gram (3.6-5.4 oz) because the lighter ones fly poorly very often. They start quickly but quickly lose velocity. Although it happens that some of them fly uniquely slick, but it is too random for me.

I'm curious if your projectiles was made of a special dense mineral. Did you make them by yourself? I also would like to know what material was used for David's darts. Was those the lead darts maybe? I have a much more questions for you, but I think it is enough for the moment :)


On David Engvall's sling. Guys, as you remember, Magnumslinger described the device for throwing the prolongated projectiles with the fins. He saw that in the Guinness Book on Bali. He said that that device came to mind an old trigger line for a camera. It looks like that one had the push button for the release (?) I think that it might be just David's device (sling?).

Jurek

Opss!


Quote:

On David Engvall's sling. Guys, as you remember, Magnumslinger described the device for throwing the prolongated projectiles with the fins. He saw that in the Guinness Book on Bali. He said that that device came to mind an old trigger line for a camera. It looks like that one had the push button for the release (?) I think that it might be just David's device (sling?).

I didn't see Dan's picture befor. Great! Thanks!
Do you have the text from that book too?

Jurek

Jurek, that's all there was in the Guinness book. Later books only had the (same) text, but no pictures.

Well, there we have it; A picture of the infamous dart.  :P  Thanks Dan for getting that to us.

Also, welcome Larry.  It's a honor to have you here!  As for your newbie status, once you pass 10 posts, you become a Junior Member.  50 for Full Member.  I'm sure you'll rack up an impressive number of posts quickly.  

Chris

Dan
      Thanks for posting the pic. A most interesting release device on that Sling. No dought one would get almost instant release with it. Simple, elegant, practical. I like it! :D



WalkingBird

Who Thinks it's a great pic.  8)

I can't tell how it releases. I see the hole in the side and the hook on the "pouch". How do you release it?

Johnny
           If I'm seeing it right, the dart has a small nub on the side (between the numbers) with a hole in it, the hook on the cam "pouch" goes into this hole, the open side of the hook points toward the release thong. When the sling is held before release, the lines are keeping the cam flat and the hook engaged. When the release thong is released (as in a normal sling) the cam pivits on the retension thong end and the dart is released from the hook which is now pointing out. This keeps the dart from getting entangled in the release thong, and makes for a very fast release, as the release thong only has to move away from the hand a few inches and the dart is released.
     At least that is the view from here. Going by just this one pic I'd say that's how it works.


WalkingBird

Who would have loved to see this thing in action.

Walkingbird
I'll take another look and see if I can figure it out.
Thanks

Johnny,  Here is that hook. I turned it upside down and stretched it to appear somewhat normal. Maybe this will help. Think of it as a hook holding up a 'load.' The hook is hung from two cords. When one cord let's go, the hook pivots and the 'load' drops.

http://www.claycritters.com/sling/Engvall%20Sling%20Dart%20Release.jpg

Dan
That is the way I figured it out! Your illustration confirms it!
Thanks!

Thanks for hunting the image, Dan. It arise so many questions... as the weight of the dart, the length of strings, the position of the dart in the whirl (it looks  trasversal to the cords, which would diminish the air resistance in the turn around), etc. It is not clear in the photo how is the cord release, and even they appear two handles, I imagine that there are two slings in the photo... I hope that David clarifies all this to us when he comes into  the forum if he animates to... The procedure is ingenious, but when David appears I have to say him that it exists an easier way  to do the same, he he, although maybe not so aerodynamic in the turn around. I think that a great part of the device success consists of the aerodynamic characteristics of the dart.

What I am most interested in are the historical implications of such a throw; if a man nowadays can do it, with (presumably) less training than an ancient Balearic slinger, then I would guess that an ancient slinger could sling the same distance, or thereabouts.  Does anyone know any (traditional) archery records for range, so we can compare the scores and see which ancient instrument of death is the best for range.

Here is the copy of present GWR rules and the information about David's record:

"Rules
1. This record involves throwing a stone weighing at least 56 g 2 oz as far as possible, using a traditional sling, with a maximum length of 130 cm 51 in. The sling is to be made entirely of leather.
2. The throw is to be made on level ground, or slightly up a hill, but not down hill.
3. It is best if the stones to be thrown are painted a bright colour to make them more visible.
4. It is also suggested that an arc be drawn showing the position of the current record.
5. One official person must verify the point from which the throw was made. The thrower can use a run-up and should throw from a line such as one would have for javelin throwing. Crossing the line would invalidate the throw. Two officials should verify the location of the catch - they will have to follow the flight of the stone as it starts to come down. It would be the first point of impact with the ground that should be recorded. The distance should then be checked with a steel measure."

"The current record is:  
The greatest distance achieved in hurling an object from a sling is 477.10m
<I>1565ft 4in</I>, using a 127cm <I>50in</I> long sling and a 62g <I>21/4oz</I>
dart, achieved by David engvall at Baldwin Lake, California, USA on 13 Sep 1992."

Hondero,


Quote:

...I imagine that there are two slings in the photo...

I think that this is one sling. The cord with the big knot is the retention one, the smaller knot is on the release cord. It looks like David grasps the retention cord by the entire palm and the big knot is behind the little finger.

I'm sure that the dart is fixed in (or very close before) the centre of gravity and sets itself along the trajectory all the time.

Jurek

A long bow can shoot about 350 meters (1148 feet).  We know from historical references that slingers could out-range archers, and with distances of 1500 feet from Larry, Jurek, and others, I think it's pretty clear.    I'm not quite sure why though.  It's possible that the air resistance for an arrow is greater than that of a lead gland.  It's also possible that the mechanical advantage of a sling is better than that of a drawn bow string.  

Chris

Well, it does seem to be that the sling is better than the bow.  Perhaps there is only so much energy that wood can provide, and it can only be improved so much (by sinew, horn, bone, etc), whereas a human can constantly improve his/her physical strength, until he/she ends up like Arnie The Governator and can sling a stone with a well made sling very far.  And it is possible that the bow can shoot further than the sling, because we are only going on given averages about range.  Perhaps the bow could shoot in excess of 400 metres, or something.  And it depends also on the arrow.  If you used an aerodynamic, barreled type arrow, made of a reed of some sort, with a target head and spiralled flights, of a length of something like 32 inches, from a composite bow, I am fairly certain a range of around 400 metres would not be all that difficult, and maybe further.  But at the moment, the sling seems to be better.

If you are wanting to set the world's record GWR says it must be a 'stone.'  The intent is clear, they are talking about a naturally ocurring object and not one manmade. So, concrete and lead are out. But, it doesn't say which type of stone, nor does it imply that the stone can't be 'worked' to provide the best shape and weight. After all, ancient slingers shaped their stones, too.  The slingers in Guam come to mind.

For the best ballistics, the denser the material the better for ballistics.  I looked up what stone densities I could find. Here are their specific gravities. Water has an SG = 1.

Chalk = 2.3 (very easy to shape)
Granite = 2.7 (very heavy, but very hard to shape)
Gypsum = 2.4 (easy to shape)
Limestone = 2.6 (moderate to shape)
Marble = 2.7 (moderate to shape)
Sandstone = 2.3 (easy to shape)
Soapstone = 2.7 (easy to shape)
Trap rock = 3.0 (what is this?  very heavy)

Plaster of Paris = 1.8 (added for comparison, this is manmade)
Concrete = 2.2 (added for comparison)
Lead = 11.3 (added for comparison)

I would make mine from soapstone. Very heavy and easy to shape with hand or power tools. It is possible to turn soapstone in a wood lathe with scraper tools.  Dan

The David one is really a very light dart and also very atypical. It would not be possible to be used in the war nor for the hunting, just to break the Guinness. I don´t like the artefacts outside context, that forget their function and adapt to other completely different aims. We can not say that the missil used by David is a sling projectile. It would have been very easy to use a typical dart, very aerodynamic too, and then we would be speaking with property of a record of Cestrosphendon. The device of David is really a Cestros, with a peculiar and ingenious way to release the dart. It could have been used by the Greeks or the Romans and I wonder that if they did not do it was because the conventional cestros provided enough range to them and was simpler to construct.
I don´t want to star up a polemic, nor to discredit  the Guinness organization either, but for me the present holder of the sling distance world record continues being Larry Bray. Also it is certain that when not existing in the Guiness the normalization of an Olympic sport, leaves many things free that distort the records.
Let us see the last records, if I am not mistaken in the data:

- Vernon Morton:    847´ - 10 oz
- M. Gaylor:          1147´ - 7.5 oz
- Larry Bray:         1434´ - 2 oz

It is clear that the recods are not comparable, as  it is well known the influence of the projectil weight in the range. If it is really tried to value the force and ability of the slinger, is necessary to standardize the sling and the projectile, like happens in any Olympic discipline. It´s time for the sling to be an Olympic sport¡¡¡

Every ancient sport in modern times has these same growing pains.  Ancient technology or contemporary?  The solution seems to always be the same: two records. One for classical slinging and one for unlimited slinging. So, to me, Larry holds the record for the former and David simlutaneously holds the record for the latter.

Like you mention, Hondero, the weight seems to predict the distance. But, I don't like the notion of standardizing the weights. It would be unfair for some people.  The length of a person's arm and even their weight will alter the optimum slingstone weight they should throw for maximum distance. If you standardize the stone's weight you would be discriminating against certain groups of people. The slingstone weight is a human factor, so shouldn't be standarized. That's like saying all cross country skiiers should use the same length and width ski.  

I appreciate your desire for slinging to become an Olympic sport. After all, most of the other ancient martial arts are.  That would be fun!  On a serious note, a sport cannot become an Olympic event until it has a history of competition on the national and international levels. One of the reasons I was promoting an international competition was to prepare slinging for the Olympics.

I see no reason why we should adopt the GWRs rules. Who are they anyway?  A slinging organization?  No. They are book sellers.

I think this group is the proper group to decide on what is the best regulatory means and method to use. We are the international experts. I hereby formally request, as a full member, that this group develop the regulations for distance slinging.

PS:  We can properly use the term Classical, since Greeks used the sling and the slings we are talking about are from the same era.

PPS: Alabaster is similar to soapstone in weight and ease of shaping.

[quote author=Dan_Bollinger link=board=1;num=1076973351;start=50#53 date=02/22/04 at 14:14:28]

"I don't like the notion of standardizing the weights. It would be unfair for some people.  The length of a person's arm and even their weight will alter the optimum slingstone weight they should throw for maximum distance. If you standardize the stone's weight you would be discriminating against certain groups of people. The slingstone weight is a human factor, so shouldn't be standarized. That's like saying all cross country skiiers should use the same length and width ski."  

Yeah. but remember the javelin launching, or the discus, or the weight launching, all Olympic disciplines are regulated. There are not a clasical javeline and a modern one. Unfortunatelly, for been an Olympic game, the sling have to be updated, like the bow. But we must remember that the modern bow does not shoot rockets like the present sling record, but just modern arrows. All has its limits.


"I see no reason why we should adopt the GWRs rules. Who are they anyway?  A slinging organization?  No. They are book sellers. "

Yes, just "book sellers" those are the words

"I think this group is the proper group to decide on what is the best regulatory means and method to use. We are the international experts. I hereby officially request, as a full member,  that this group develop the regulations for distance slinging."

ME TOO¡¡

Hondero.  About the javelin, the Olympics uses modern, not ancient javelins.  I understand what you are saying, but perhaps the javelin isn't a good example for your point.  ;)  

I'm pleased you agree that this group should make the rules. If they are generally adopted around the world, GWR (and the Olympic committee) will use them, too.

wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2004 at 3:05pm:

I'm pleased you agree that this group should make the rules. If they are generally adopted around the world, GWR (and the Olympic committee) will use them, too.

Ah, hard task we are atacking  ;D... first of all we have to gather in the forum the most prestigious men in the world of sling (there are someones already  ;) ), then to make the regulations, and finally to send them everywhere related to sling, with the garantee of the signatory people... and in the future the  mere name of Slinging.org will be suficient as garantee ( just "el cuento de la lechera" as we say here, I dont know if the  story exist in english)... but who knows the future¡¡  ;D

Dan,

Thanks for the stones densities, it is very useful.


The present GWR rules don't give an equal chanses for successors. Larry's great achievment is closest to them (predecessor's most probably too). Although, there is one exception: Larry used the dacron cords. GWR says: "... The sling is to be made entirely of leather..." I suppose that GWR rightly tries to restrain the "technological race" in that category and the rules are new. I think that a sling made entirely of common leather can't surpass David's range, with useing stones, of course. Probably, it is possible to make the special "hi-tech" leather cords, but it require special kind of leather and advanced technology too. Every one can't get it, hovever.

Nowadays there are so many kinds of common accesable and cheap matherials for making cords. So, GWR shouldn't question them, I hope. After all, ancient slingers used different common materials for slings, not only leather. They used lead glandes too. Then we could admit them as traditional ammo.

There is the problem, because Dan have set "cross-beam so high" with his unconventional stuff. I think we should find reasonable compromise. If that one can be named a SLING without hestitation and follow to beat David's record, then we will able to speak about the standard.

I'm follower of admiting the lead projectiles. There is a few reasons of it, I'm sure that it equlizes the chances. For example, one guy is able to use the granit field stones only, but other one can get and make perfect shaped projectiles of pyrite (density > 5.0) for example. Well, we have the STONES in both cases. Have those guys got equal chanse? Lead due to density tops almost all minerals. The lead is cheap and I'm sure that evryone who want to beat the record is able get them and make homemade projectiles as want. In fact, the lead is unhealthy, but one may use stannum, for example. The next important thing, lead projectiles reduces an influence of wind. GWR says nothing about that. I think, that strong wind can enlage range of stone even about 100 yards.

Summarizing, since predecessors used diferent matherials for the cords, and since David used the metal missles, then those should be allowed in next tries. However the required sling should look similar to a classic SLING and work like a SLING. For example, the leather pouch and two cords made of any material + lead projectiles with any shape.

Well... that is only my opinion, But I think that forum is the bigest sling experts community of the world and it is the best place for creation and carrying rules to GWR. I'm curious of your guys opinions and Larry's one too.

Jurek

PS. Oopss! I haven't seen last posts before.

The "rules" Yurek got from GWR appear to just be the protocol that I used for my throw.  I wrote up everything I thought relevant and submitted it with my record.  This includes the 2 oz. stone I used and the 51 in. sling.  Also, I painted the rocks orange and had official witnesses number and initial each one before it was thrown.  I also described to them how I measured off the 1147 ft distance and had a spotter at that location.  I scribed an arc that I had to remain behind during my throwing process.  I had a licensed surveyor measure the throw with a steel tape.  I also noted wind speed (negligible) and direction and the fact that the impact area was a few feet higher than the throwing location.

It appears to me that if someone inquires regarding rules, Guiness responds by sending them the protocol that I used.  Guinness did not hold David E. to these guidelines regarding the "traditional sling" nor the stone projectile.  My interpretation is that there are no rules.  If someone submits a new record, Guinness will evaluate their equipment and procedures and make a decision on whether to allow it or not.  I made throws with two different slings the day I set the record.  The longest throw that we recovered was with the 51 incher.  I had a bucket of stones I had picked up at a friends gravel pit.  They were of various sizes and shapes.  Again, the stone that went the furthest happened to weigh 2 oz.

I don't know where I come down in the debate regarding standardization.  I recall being taken aback somewhat when I saw that my record had been replaced with a dart thrown by what appeared to be quite different from a traditional sling.  On the other hand, if the projectile weight had been standardized at 7.5 or 10 oz. I would never have got my name in the book.  As I said before, I am in awe of those previous records.  They are beyond what I could have done with similar weight.

Larry,

Thank you for that information. I'm excited I may read your words on that forum. Maybe two or three months ago I asked question about records here, but now you are here, great!

I'm sure you are able to beat David's record still. If you use the lead projectiles then you will beat that range easy.

Jurek

Jurek,

Your confidence in my ability is flattering.  It sounds like you are having great success with your throws also.  I wish you the best.  I bought a mold for 2 oz egg shaped fishing weights about 10 years ago and have cast several hundred lead projectiles.  I have thrown a few and they flew really well.  The rest are sitting out in the shed awaiting their moment of glory.  :)  I should maybe file the ends to sharpen the point a little, they are quite blunt but similar in shape to the rock I threw, but with a much smaller frontal area.  I have improved my slings using smaller diameter cord and smaller pouches.  Less wind resistance prior to release.  We still have a foot of snow on the ground but within a month or two the weather will be nice and the reservoirs will be thawed so I can see where my throws land.  I prefer throwing over/across lakes to better judge distance.  Do others do this?

Larry,

I'm going to try. We have winter too, and it is not good seson for such play. I tried 100 and 120g (3.6, 4.3 oc) lead ammo. Really, I surpass Davids's range with them. I have put the pictures of these glandes and slings here, maybe you have seen it. I have made the mold of plaster of paris. The ranges were "measured" by the observer who was hiden close the aim zone.

I don't know whether I shouldn't resign, since you are going to do it :)))

I like slinging into water too, but there are too many people around usually. So I often chose a more solitary places. I also wish you the best. I hope we will be in touch, and you will tell me your ranges :) Maybe I beat the air ;)

Jurek

Larry, I like throwing over water, too. I get instant feedback about the throw.

Yurek, would you please repost your glandes pictures here or email them to me?  I'd like to see what you came up with. Dan

Hi Dan;

Here can you found the lead glandes that Jurek made:

Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
« Reply #35 on: Feb 3rd, 2004, 5:45pm »

or just use the search function for "Lead glandes" from user Yurek..

Ulrica

Thanks, Ulrica, I forgot the search engine, which works well on this forum.   ;D

Larry, Don't sharpen those points just yet. I've been thinking about the glandes shape. Here is my thinking graphically. If you can't throw the proper airfoil, then the final shape will be the best compromise, based on my limited knowledge and experience with air/hydrofoils. Dan

http://www.claycritters.com/sling/NACAairfoils.jpg

Jurek

The funnest scenario would be several of us chasing the record, leapfrogging each other and pushing it up to new distances previously thought out of reach.  Records are meant to be broken, right?  

Dan

The fourth shape (symmetrical glandes) from your post is very similar to the profile of the record rock but the rock is much larger.  Your image is very near to actual size for my lead pellets except mine are slightly more blunt front and rear.  I need to refine the "well shaped forebody" somewhat by modifying my mold.

Larry

Dan, have you realized that your NACA n.1 is just the shape of David Engeval missils? I think that if David has used his atypical device and method of launching is because he did not find a way to lodge this type of optimal projectile in the pouch of a sling   ::).

Larry,  If you like, copy and print that image to make your shapes. I can also provide you with a CAD file if your university has a CNC mill to cut the molds. Wouldn't that be sweet!?  

Hondero,  Or, David's dart is close to my shape.  ::)  LOL!

Good design is good design! Actually, the NACA shapes go back to the 1920's or so. Of course now the organization goes by its new name, NASA.  

I came up with my shapes from practice, experience, and common sense.  The glandes shaped stone simply flew the best for me so that is what I used for the record and what I tried to duplicate with my lead pellets.  These were some of the "secrets" I alluded to in my first post.  Don't I feel silly!  You guys knew this stuff all along!  But we're among friends here, right?

[quote author=Yurek link=board=1;num=1076973351;start=50#57 date=02/22/04 at 16:48:26]Dan,

The sling is to be made entirely of leather..." I suppose that GWR rightly tries to restrain the "technological race" in that category and the rules are new.

Well... that is only my opinion, But I think that forum is the bigest sling experts community of the world and it is the best place for creation and carrying rules to GWR. I'm curious of your guys opinions and Larry's one too.
]



The new regulation of the Guinness sincerely seems to me inadequate and lack of knowledge of the sling. The integral leather slings are not indeed the best ones and estatistically they have been used much less throughout History than those of braided fibers. I think that if we considered ourselves as a group with some authority in the world of the sling we could establish a minimum regulation on the weapon, since we have commented. My idea on the matter is that the sling is a well defined weapon, that has lasted in its initial configuration from prehistory to the present time, and that indeed its design and functionality is the one that we, lovers of the weapon, must make an effort to conserve and transmit.

Nevertheless, the incorporation to that traditional design of all the advances in the technology of the materials must be allowed since it results in benefit of a greater performance of the weapon.

As a first epigraph of a possible regulation of the sling it would be necessary to write up a clear and precise definition of it.
It would have to be described the existence of a pouch to lodge the projectile, of any design and shape, but obligatorily with functionality of only support, not allowing other ways of attachment of the projectile, like hooks, spherical boxes or tubes with opening capacity to release the missile, etc. Rigid structures or of articulated parts would not be allowed either.

In regard to the cords,  it would be necessary to mention the existence of a cord of permanent attachment at the hand and another one of firing, that when loosen allowed the liberation of the projectile in the pouch. Handles could be allowed (already they were used in the antiquity also), but  firing gears included in them would not be allowed. The materials could be organics or synthetic, flexible, even metallic cable, but never rigid rods of any material, nor articulated pieces.

In regard to the launching, it would be allowed any movement able to provide kinetic energy  to the projectile, and any style of turn around or simple movements of propulsion. The projectiles would have to be massive, globular more or less extended, with a ratio length/width non superior to 3/1. Composed forms are not allowed, with fins, stabilizers or other complements. The material could be anyone, and of course heavy metals, of long historical tradition. The projectiles would have actual capacity of destructive impact.

Well, sorry for the long message, but these are only some minimal  and common considerations on the matter. I think the sling has not followed the way of update of the bow, and must it have done. Does the bow hides Freudian reasons which the sling lacks, and for that reason its much more appealing? Or it´s simply because it is easier to use?

Quote:

The funnest scenario would be several of us chasing the record, leapfrogging each other and pushing it up to new distances previously thought out of reach.  Records are meant to be broken, right?

Larry,

Yeah! You are absolutly right. It becomes more and more interesting and exciting now. I'm curius whather someone else is going to set up the new record.  Anyway, gentlmans, who starts first? :D ;)

Dan,

Probably, you have seen those pictures, since Ulrica gave tips for you. But I have put the pictures here, anyway. They are on-topic here, I think.

Your compromise shape make sense. My own ones I formed at a guess.

This is my forst sling made for the lead glandes. As you can see it is nothing "hi-tech". Just that one (+ 100 elongated glandes) let me to surpass David's range. I know it only from relations of my observeres and  I believe that they didn't lie ;)

http://www.kajakowe.com.pl/sling/Lead_sling2.jpg

Here is my second test sling and the lead projectiles. Alas, I don't know eficiency of that sling and the "balls" yet.

http://www.na-ryby.com.pl/sling/Sling_and_projectiles.jpg

Jurek

Jurek
Please tell us how you made your lead glandes!
Your sling looks like it has loops half way between the pouch and finger hold, why?
Great work!
Johnny

Hondero,

My point is similar to yours. I think would be well to get  coherent rules here and submit to GWR. Devices out the rules should be in other category. The situation should become clear, when someone surpass David's record with the sling which is compatibile with these rules. David's record should stay in THE SLING CATEGORY, anyway. I personaly recognise that one due to lack the clear rules before. But it would be good to restrain the "armaments race" in the future.

Jurek

Johnny,

If I find more time I will try to desribe more exactly how I made them. The way is primitive rather. I formed the models of modeling paste and flooded them with plaster of paris in the box, in two stages. So I have got two piece mold. Next I made the drains.

I wasn't sure what lenght of the cords would be the best for me. I used these knots for adjusting a lengh of the cords.

Here are the pictures how to make that knot. That one is quite good for making a sling of single rope, too.

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=1060640990;start=7#7

Jurek

Yurek, Since you showed me your glandes, I'll show you mine!  ::)

39gram  (1.4 oz.) glandes with mold I made.  Based on what I've been reading here, I'd like to make larger and better shaped ones, too.  

http://www.claycritters.com/sling/39g%20glandes%20&%20mold.jpg

I complement the workmanship and elegance of the slings exhibited in these posts.  Even the most simple are works of art.  I have never approached this degree of beauty in my slings, they are very utilitarian in appearance but I love them so...  I will try to have a photo posted in the next day or two.  Thanks for sharing.

Jurek,

I won't be ready for an attempt until maybe July.  Maybe I'll do it at the county fair again which is in mid-August.  I first need to see how far I can throw.  If I'm not as good as I hope I will stay on the sidelines and cheer others on.  

Larry

Whoooooo...Dan
     Really nice mold! :D  How did you manage it? Are you a machinest type person, or just a home hobbiest on steroids?  ;) I druel  :P for uniform ammo. But tell me, is 1.4 oz heavy enough?

WalkingBird

Inquireing minds want to know.

Jurek and Dan,
It would be cool if you could write up guide on how to produce lead glands.  Ammo production is kind of lacking in the articles section.

Also, how about all you guys making concrete ones?  Can you write something up?  A step by step guide would be a great asset.  

Dan,
Thats a pretty neat mass-production method.  What material are you casting it in?  I would think casting metal in metal would be troublesome.  

Everyone,
Here's a pic that i've posted before from an englishman i corresponded with a while back.  


http://www.slinging.org/images/bullets.jpg

Chris

wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2004 at 4:49pm:

Hondero, David's record should stay in THE SLING CATEGORY, anyway. I personaly recognise that one due to lack the clear rules before. . Jurek

I´m sorry Yurek, but I can´t recognise it in the SLING cathegory  ;D ;D ...   One must be consistent with his own ideas. But I´ve not any doubts David can easily beat his own record with a lead glans  ;)

Larry asked if I would host this picture, so here it is (my annotations).  Pretty cool!  8) I'm sure you'll have a lot of questions for him.

http://www.slinging.org/images/bray/brayworldrecord.jpg

The mold I made was milled from aluminum. Pretty easy, really. I reground an end mill to the same I wanted and used it to bore the holes. It works exactly like a bullet mold complete with the sprue cutter. The technology is 200 years old. The first run is remelt until the mold comes up to heat. Steel works better because it holds heat better than aluminum, but it is easier to make the mold. I wanted 28g (But ended up with 39g. I'm not much of an engineer!) because the Korfmann article said 28g was the most common weight. But, when tossing them I feel that they are too light.

Now that we are talking so much about world record setting I'm thinking about a new mold for 2-2.5 oz in the proper shape.  

Image was lost due to broken link on external site.  Dale Lehmann found a copy and now the image resides on slinging.org's server.  Thanks, Chris.

So that's it! I thought you may have had that sling bronzed! What was the record? I'm thinking it was about a quarter of a mile or over.
Johnny

Hi Johnny,

That's it.  Not much to look at, huh?  But boy can that baby throw!  The record was 1434', a quarter mile is 1320'.  What I don't know is how much further the lead projectile would fly if released at the same angle and velocity.

Larry

Larry, what are the weights for the stone and glandes?  What do you feel is the optimum weight for you?  Dan

After the record was set I took the stone to the post office and they weighed it for me.  It was 2 oz.  Since it weighed 2 oz. and I liked the feel of that weight, I made my lead pellets weigh 2 oz. also.  I have not done any objective testing to see what weight is optimal for me.  There are so many other variables it is difficult to control.  Subjectively, I like the balance between velocity and ballistic coefficient with a 2 oz. projectile.

Larry

P.S.  Thanks for posting the photo for me.

Dan,

Thanks for sharing. I'm jealous of your mold! Very nice job!

Hondero,


Quote:

...One must be consistent with his own ideas. But I´ve not any doubts David can easily beat his own record with a lead glans...

I value his circumvention, it bears a progress. He simply looked for rezerves in his desighn. I like human ingenuity. Since the rules wasn't exact... So, we may not repeal that. We may only try to show next pretenders that is better to use the normal sling ;)

Larry,

Your sling has the fabled beauty. That one looks like an old good friend :) Besides, was hellishly effective. It is the most important.

I tested a more heavy lead projectiles because I usually use a more heavy stones. Greater ones seem to fly better due to the balance between velocity and ballistic coefficient (I have stolen your words). Probably reason is in a rather poor quality of the most stones what I use. For me, the lead projectiles fly much better. Just therefore I said that you could beat David's range easy.

Chris,

Description how I make the plaster molds is a difficult English homework :D Anyway I will try do it when I have more free time. I hope I will be clear.

Jurek

I'd be happy to review it for you and make any changes.  Im sure I could figure out what you're saying, as your english is very good!  Plus, you can take lots of good pictures to help the reader.

Chris

Starting to catch up with posts here.
Firstly wouldn't Guiness take us more seriously if we were a non-profit corporation, like many national hobbyist clubs?
Nextly, California has some beautiful dry lake beds. Probably ideal slinging conditions, come on down! :)
And don't dedicated fishermen cast their own sinkers? You can certainly buy 2 oz lead egg-shaped sinkers, but they're almost too expensive tp throw away.
I can't imagine looking for a 2 oz lead lump in the desert, after a throw, even if it's painted international orange!

Being a actual recognized non-profit organization would be great, but perhaps a bit ambitious and premature at this point.  If we break 1000 active members worldwide, then we'll take a vote.  :P

Also, some people, like Yurek, are casting their own lead ammo, which is very cool.  

Chris

For ball or egg shaped glandes, I again refer you, my friends, to the Memphis Net and Twine company's web site.  They have cannonball and egg sinker molds which are fairly inexpensive and ready made in weights from less than 1 oz to 8 ounces and more.  The 2, 3, 4 and 5 ounce weights are readily available.
http://gmocart.gmotion.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=memnet_fishing&Category_Code=leadmolding

Melting Pot
http://gmocart.gmotion.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=memnet_fishing&Product_Code=POT2&Category_Code=leadmolding_pots

Cannonball Sinker Molds
http://gmocart.gmotion.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=memnet_fishing&Category_Code=leadmolding_molds_cannonball

Egg Sinker Molds
http://gmocart.gmotion.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=memnet_fishing&Category_Code=leadmolding_molds_egg

Accessories
http://gmocart.gmotion.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=memnet_fishing&Category_Code=leadmolding_accessories

There are other suppliers of the same type equipment.  Check the web for one near you.

Why cut your own molds trial and error when these are available?  Thee shape is close enough for government work on the egg shape and perfect on the cannonball shape.

Admittedly it is a lot of fun to make your own stuff.  I do it all the time.  But, there is a point of diminishing return that I don't like to cross.  I don't have a milling machine or even a good drill press, and neither do most of us slingers.  We can get right into making glandes with durable, well made molds for much less than a drill press.  The lead can even be obtained cheap or possbily free from tire stores in the form of wheel weights.

Here is the list of the minimum tools needed:

-Mold (cannonball or egg)
-Melting pan or pot and ladle
-Heat source (sterno will work, but a small gas camp stove would be more reasonable)
-Wheel weights
-Tongs to remove steel clips from melted wheel weights
-Bucket of cool water (to drop the glandes into to harden them)

Remember, lead is poisonous.  Wear gloves and work in a well ventilated area. Also, I would recommend coating the glandes in something to keep from contacting the lead when handling the glandes.

jeff <><

Jeff,  Great info on casting lead. I'm going to put some things together about casting bullets with lead for Chris to post.  fyi: I intend to make a new mold for an aero-glandes around 2 ounce.  A proper shape will yield a few more yards distance.

Regarding safety, the worst hazard is lead fumes. Work outdoors and crosswind. Never upwind or downwind. Lead on the fingers isn't a high hazard unless you don't wash before eating.

One thing not on your list that makes for a higher quality bullet is flux. Just a little parafin or beeswax added to the melt just before casting helps a lot.  Skim off the drek beforehand, too.

Larry, the US postal service has piss-poor scales. Heck, your school's chemistry lab has MUCH better scales. If they said "2 ounces" that could be anywhere between 1.5 and 2.5 ounces.  Would you reweight it using better equipment?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Dan,  I should have double checked the weight earlier.  An electronic scale from the school's chemistry lab showed 1.836 oz. (52.04g) for the stone when I weighed it this morning.  At least the postal scale was accurate to the nearest ounce!  Close enough for government work, right?

Larry

I have posted with David P.Engevall relative to his style of launching and other aspects of his record. He has read what we have spoken in "wordl record holders" thread, and says that it would be interesting to clarify some doubts showing part of the documentation he sent to the Guinness. This is his last message:  

"Jesús,

I don't have a web site of my own at this time. Please put the image files that I sent to you on the slinging.org site. The text in the images will answer some of the questions that I have seen in the World Record Holders forum.

I'll have a web site of my own one of these days. But I am getting ready to move so I don't have time to set one up at this time.

I do have a video of myself throwing the sling that I will be glad to share when I have time to make a copy.

Best Regards,
David P. Engvall "


The documentation that he sent to me is in 8 image files, too much to display in this message, and in addition it would be difficult to find after certain time. One of the documents contains the rules of the Guinness, that already we know by Larry. Perhaps it will be interesting  to have a proper room in the site to this type of documentation, and so  it´ll be accesible by the members of this forum that attempt the Guinness in the future. I include here only one of the documents that clarify some of the aspects debated in the forum:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/hondero/Album/Engeval2.jpg

As it can be noticed, the regulation of the Guinness is not so rigid in regard to the  "traditional" sling and projectile to be used, whenever the obtained record is interesting. This suggests to me the possibility of the use of lead glandes, that would match the conditions of "stone" defined by David.

Larry, That is typical for the USPS, they round up to the nearest ounce!  Thanks. I would have bet it was over 2 ounces, not under.  

And, it is interesting that David's 'stone' was not permitted to weigh less than 2 ounces and weighed in at 2.2 ounces.

What would you think is an optimal glandes weight for you?  Dan

Hondero,

Thanks for sharing. That writing confirms that was said in the discussion before. It looks like Guinness is very liberal in this case. I think it would be fair if GWR would be sending David's definitions to other pretenders too, isn't it?
Besides, the above rules are a bit different than these ones which I quoted in this topic before.

Hondero, could you write something more about David's style of launching and others detailes? It would be nice to see David over here too.

Jurek

Larry's disclosure, in my mind, makes the record he achieved even more amazing.  That is a very light projectile and being launched by a sling which was not aeorodynamically optomized to boot!  I found that anything less than 2.5 oz.  would put great stress on my launching arm.  Something must be said for the shape of the stone used in the record breaking attempt...assuming, as I must, that the stone spun rapidly about it's longitudinal axis,  It appears that an optimal composite dynamic was achieved.....(ie.  Larry knows his stones!)   I also found that enlongated stones with a ratio close to 1.7 to 1 favoring length with a shallow 'scallop' on one side would occasionally produce fantastic launch speeds.  This can be observed when launching stones by hand as well.....there is much more to be learned about the interrelation between gyroscopic motion and aerodynamics, to be sure.....

Are you talking about the shape of the heavier fishing weights? I would call them spindle-shaped rather than egg-shaped. The spin-stabilization would tend to keep the glandes oriented in one direction, whatever that was, and if the orientation involved the axis in line with the direction of travel, then what you have there is a rifled bullet, or at least the equivalent.

This might be controlled with the type of cast, or the construction of the sling... ::)

Would a tear-drop shaped tend to tumble until it acheived a more aerodynamic orientation?

Back in the day when my ammo supply was a bucket of stones, it didn't make sense to get too technical about projectiles.  I knew that "ellipsoid" shaped stones flew better and would in fact spin on their long axis.  I felt like the record stone was about right and it turned out to be a little under two ounces.  It was a basalt type (tertiary lava) stone from a local gravel pit, probably rounded by water action over the millenia.  But remember, I just picked it up out of a bucket of other stones, gave it a fling, found where it landed and measured it off.  There were a few others I threw that day that we thought went further but we could not find.  I don't recall anything special about their weight or shape but they were similar I am sure.  

Now that I am casting lead projectiles, I need to put in a throwing session on my favorite bluff and try to hurl one to the far shore.  I suppose I should cast some 2 oz., 2.5 oz., and maybe 3 oz. pellets and observe which works best.  Again, the trade-off between release velocity (lower for heavier projectiles, higher for lighter) and ballistic coefficient (higher for heavier projectiles, lower for lighter) will dictate the optimum weight.  My guess is that for me it will be two ounces or just over.  There was just too much variability between stones for this kind of trial to make sense back in the old days.  

Yurek, the David style looks very special. He describe it like a motion similar to a tennis serve, with a previous vertical  circle in front of the body.  The release is overhand .
I´d like to see that video he promises. One of these days I´ll try the style.

As you are the new Guinness pretender   :) I can send to you David´s documentation if you want. He seems to be very trustful in the record with his light proyectil, but maybe he don´t suspect the power of lead  ;D.
I hope he come to the forum, but these days he seems to be busy

I've been catching up on some reading.  This thread is awesome!  I've wondered about those world records for years.  If only the old timer world record holders were with us now.  I gasp at the ranges that Yurek, Larry, and David achieve, but I could never even comprehend slinging 7 oz stones more than 80 yards, let alone over 300.  

I see this thread is 20 days old at the youngest, but I have some thoughts.  Aerodynamically, arrows are supposed to be very efficient, because of a lot of weight (extending backwards) concentrated behind a small point.  I can see the same is true for David's darts.

However, he's using a Cestro here, and I doubt the dart really does fly perfectly straight on release.  

In flight, from what I've seen in my own home hobby experiments with my catapults, and other "toys," even the slightest wobble produces quite a bit of drag on a dart, as the sides of the fins are exposed to the airflow.  The fins at the back are there to keep the dart straight, through the use of drag, but a little wobble can make the whole thing quite inefficient and rob a lot of initial velocity from the start.  On a steel dart, it may not be really noticable, but I believe it would have it's negative effect.  Even without wobble, fins are an enemy of aerodynamics.  A necessary evil, with arrows, bolts and darts, inorder to keep them on course, but when using a sling, there's no need that I see for them.  I think they may partially defeat their purpose.  That's up in the air some I guess, but....

Offhand, I'd predict significantly more range out of just plain lead glandes, then out of the cestro darts.  I've seen personally, how much more efficient lead is as a projectile, than steel.  That density makes those things go like rockets, and perhaps about 1/3 extra range can be gained with lead, over rocks.

Lead glandes are historically accurate projectiles, and Guiness, should have no reasonable trouble with accepting them in their records book either.  Between Larry and Yurek, and maybe if David joins us,..., I think we might have some real fun!!

My only other thought about the world record- that I've had for some time- is in using the absolutely most aerodynamic sling possible, made of a split cradle of 1/16" material joined together to form the cradle and the cords.  This is more aerodynamic than what David or Larry have used in the past.  Jurek, I see from the picture posted earlier, is waiting to experiment with one.  I can't wait to hear of the results!  I'm confident, that it will be the most efficient sling yet!    

                                        Ben  
 

Ben,

I tend to agree with your observations regarding a dart vs. a lead glandes.  I don't know what research David did prior to designing his dart and sling device.  I have to assume though, that if he was throwing stones or lead projectiles far enough to break the record he would not have resorted to the dart.  By the mid 80's I had developed new slings that were subjectively much superior to the one I used for the record.  By subjective, I mean that I could tell that I was throwing greater distances with them than I had with the old design.  Conservatively, maybe 10 % further.  I figure the lead glandes is also good for a 10, 20,.. percent improvement in distance, maybe more.  After doing the math, I  really wish I had "Done it right the first time" when I set the record.  I hardly dare say it in public, but I'm guessing my twenty year old arm (shoulder) might have thrown nearly 2000 feet back then if I had my current equipment, which can hardly be called hi-tech.  I am hoping the new gear will still allow me to exceed the impressive 1565 ft mark, even with the  old, worn out arm that I now find attached to my right shoulder.  I wish there were a public event or rendezvous where a new attempt could be made.  An individual record attempt is a pain to organize and not nearly as fun as a group get-together would be.  

Does anyone have any ideas regarding a primitive weapon festival or something similar that I could maybe check out.  If I find something, my next order of business would be to help raise money for  plane tickets to fly Yurek, Hondero, and Ulrica to the US to join in the fun!  

Larry

Great idea about the get together Larry.  Maybe someday we'll set up our own competitions for accuracy, and range.  We might set new records all the time that way.  I really have hopes that with slinging.org, we may be able to get this sport back into the olympics.  By saying "back" I'm assuming it used to be there, back about 2000 or more years ago.  Maybe Hondero knows?  I've read references to even catapult shooting competitions being held back then.  

You're right too.  It wouldn't be a party without Hondero, Jurek, and Ulrica!  

I wish you all the best with your aging arm.  You might want to try some weight training here, especially on your shoulders.  It might really help your speed, and give you better joint stability for when you start tearing that sling through the air.  I know there are some on the forum who've hurt their arms slinging and that can really set you back.  

I don't doubt your guess about the range you could've achieved with better equipment.  I hope you get another chance at it.  I do wonder about David's experiments that led him to such "hi tech" equipment.  I really feel a lead gland is the ultimate, next to a silver one, or better yet, a depleted uranium one  ;)

Thinking about weight training again....  I wonder if anyone knows anything about how fastball pitchers train for high velocity throws.  I suspect that due to the possibility of injury, they must avoid polymetrics.  But I wonder?  Pro Baseball, may be a good resource of study for us slingers.

                                     Ben

Someone called my name??   ::)

I like the idea with meeting you all.  Altough I think it´s difficult for me to fly to USA because of my kids.
But I will really try if there will be such a festival or something similar!

It´s hard to meet "in the middle" I guess... It´s a lot of water there  :D

@ Larry    I hope you will gain some strange in your arm again!

//Ulrica

Hey Ulrica,

If we have a REALLYYYYY  BIG BOAT, then it might work.  If we have Jurek with us, it will have to be atleast 800 meters long I think.  



                                     8) Ben

Quote:

... it will have to be atleast 800 meters long I think.

You are right, because the glandes would bounce and roll pretty well on a hard steel deck  :D

Ben, Larry

On Davids's darts. My common sense says that compact glandes should fly better than the light darts (David's ones weighted about 2 oz and were about 6" long, if I remember well). But I suppose that David tried them too. It looks like these ones were working for him the best. I think David's sling started the darts just point-first. During the sling rotation, final stroke and the release they might to be properly oriented. In other case they would lose too much energy (velocity). In other words, probably just a perfect orientation of the darts and their shape were the key of his success, despite the stabilizers drag. It looks like David prepared all with an engineering precision.

I made the test, I formed the "drop" shaped glande of plasticine (ratio maybe 2:1) and attached the four cardboard feathers to the ending. I tied the thread just before the center of gravity. I noticed that even during slow rotations my dart was oriented perfectively. Longer dart rotated faster should orient even better.

I know nothing about the wind during David's attempt. But I think that the same strong wind could help more for darts than for compact glandes. But I don't mean that David exploited strong wind.

I have no doubt that David was (is) a skilled slinger too. If one haven't good skills, even the best stuff won't help.

Anyway, I personally stay as follower of the lead glandes. They worked for me pretty well. I'm not decided about their optimal weight yet. I'm preparing to next the "lead" tests. I try exploit good weather days for practice with stones, because I have rusted a bit during the winter :)


Quote:

I hardly dare say it in public, but I'm guessing my twenty year old arm (shoulder) might have thrown nearly 2000 feet back then if I had my current equipment, which can hardly be called hi-tech.

Larry, I absolutely was sure of it, just when I have seen your result with stone. I'm also sure that forty years old arm can amaze yet. It require only some warm up, maybe.

The idea of the slingers meeting is great. I'm alone slinger and I really would be happy to see others slinging enthusiasts. I would be a great festival. Joint attempt to the record would be very exiting happening. You are right about the organizational pain of alone attempt, you know it already. This is what I'm afraid the most. It is very nice that you are thinking about our participation. Thanks to Ben for the nice words too.

So now I must go to sleep, due to the late hour, and dream about the Great Slinging Meeting :)

Jurek

wrote on Mar 21^st, 2004 at 12:08am:

Does anyone have any ideas regarding a primitive weapon festival or something similar that I could maybe check out.  If I find something, my next order of business would be to help raise money for  plane tickets to fly Yurek, Hondero, and Ulrica to the US to join in the fun!   Larry

It would be great, it´s nice you´ve thought in us, there would be some  fanatic slingers encouraging you, though, as Ulrica say, family circunstances use to put difficulties in these plans... hummm. It´s a good idea to find one of these primitive weapons meeting, generally dedicated to the atlatl and bow, and thus the sling event would have a good repercussion too. I think the sling rarely joins in this meetings, and had to do it.

Ben,
I think that unfortunatelly the sling was not either in old Olympic games. At least this is my information, not very exhaustive of course. But never is too late for correcting the error, this would be our task  ::) .. well, at least to start it organizing sling competitions and sling clubs in differents places around the world  :o

Ben,

I do some work with light weights to strengthen and stabillize my rotator cuff.  Also some surgical tubing exercises.  Subjectively, what seems to work the best is swimming.  Just regular freestyle swimming seems to tighten up my shoulders in a good way.  I think the best practice and workout for throwing is just throwing.  My opinion is that it is mostly a timing, technique and flexibility issue.  The weight training is for injury prevention/rehab/therapy.  Like many things in life...I know what I should be doing, the question is whether I will do it or not.  :)

Larry

wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2004 at 2:56pm:

Thinking about weight training again....  I wonder if anyone knows anything about how fastball pitchers train for high velocity throws.  I suspect that due to the possibility of injury, they must avoid polymetrics.  But I wonder?  Pro Baseball, may be a good resource of study for us slingers.                                      Ben

Oh, boy. I'm a Personal Fitness Trainer student, should be certified this year. :) Pro athletes all use plyometrics; it's not dangerous, as long as you have some (6 weeks+) weight training experience. Best single exercise is the pull-over. They also use pulley machines to simulate the sports movement as closely as possible.
Do a couple of these sports-specific exercises, and also train the shoulder stabilizers and rotator cuff muscles.

We also need to keep the sport of slinging steroid-free. ;)

Larry,

Sounds good.  I think especially swimming is great for the shoulders.  I'm thinking along the lines of atheletic training, such as bench pressing, and heavier weight training, to help gain explosive strength.    

Douglas,

Thanks for the info!  I was stupid to think that pitchers avoid pylos.  I know that shoulder injuries can be a problem in baseball, but I would imagine they might even focus a lot onf pylos with the type of performance they are after.  Those expercises make sense.  I have a martial arts book on speed that goes into all sort of awesome science.  It states that within obvious extreme limits, very heavy, low rep, weight training, increases explosive strength.  Power lifters, not bodybuilders.  There's a difference in their muscle composition, etc....  Reps 1 or 2 short of failure under 6 total.  So say 7 is failure, stop at 5, and gradually increase weight over the weeks.  Do multiple sets per session and take weight off each set to keep at 5 without failure, but close to it.  This causes a lot of gains in strength without gains in physical size, thus increasing speed.  And because you don't go to failure, your recovery time is much quicker.  You're changing your muscle's efficiency, not size.  The average person supposedly only uses about 30% of their muscle's potential contraction power at any given time.  This is a safety mechanism.  When you get hit by lightening, your muscles can contract so violently that they pop right off your bones.  

For a world record, a little more speed in a throw can be supposedly gained from pulling against an elastic cord, tied to a wall, in the same motion of the throw for a few reps, at fast speed.  Then giving the muscles about 15 seconds to rest before doing the throw.  It increases muscle efficiency for a short time, and is lost within a minute after doing the exercise.  That's why boxers may punch a bag with 1 lb weights in their hands and then take them out afterwards, for temporarily increased speed.  The idea then, is to train their mind to always move that fast.  You can also train with the resistence being towards the throw.  The elastic band pulls your hand towards the throw, for increased speed.  Just like sprinters who train by sprinting down hill!

                                               Ben

Much of the power for a properly executed throw is generated in the legs, hips, and torso.  Whether you are throwing a baseball, javelin, or a sling makes no difference.  Squats and trunk exercises that strengthen the core would be beneficial.  

I've got a slightly "bum" left shoulder from rotator injury several years ago.   Vertical-spin-underhand launch from just a slight crouch gets me pretty good accuracy, with OK range, and zero shoulder problems.   Couple days ago I tried a few horizontal-spin-overhead launches.   I did get more range, but my accuracy went out the window, and I can still feel it in my shoulder.   FYI fellow "mature" slingsters, ...and you'll all be there someday, so take care of those shoulders.  mgreenfield

wrote on Feb 21^st, 2004 at 3:34pm:

Does anyone know any (traditional) archery records for range, so we can compare the scores and see which ancient instrument of death is the best for range.

The range of various primitive weapons is a fascinating target of study. Most of my practical experience comes from traditional and primitive archery, but I love all the other primitive projectiles as well. I have debated the question of bows against slings a number of times, and perusing through this fantastic site has strengthened my view of the sling as the superior weapon – range-wise.

The current World Flight record in the English Longbow class (historically “authentic” apart from synthetic strings and glues) is 306 meters (1004 ft.). The world record for horn/sinew composite bows is 566 m (1857 ft.). But these records have been made with very light, frail flight arrows that would be worthless for any practical use (=hunting / warfare). Furthermore, flight record bows are typically made to maximize cast at the expense of durability and dependability, a trade-off no warrior would want.

Tests made with war arrows and war bow replicas seem to indicate that a range of 250-300 meters would be about the upper limit for any pre-industrial bow type, be it an ultra-heavy Mary Rose longbow or an Asiatic composite bow. Flight shoots at our local club have confirmed that a typical mid-weight wood bow (like the vast majority of ancient bows were) will shoot a normal-weight-and-fletching arrow about 150 meters, 200 meters being exceptional. Even though the archer’s skill has a surprising effect on the range of an arrow, the slinger’s part of the range equation is no doubt much larger. If Melvin Gaylor, Larry Bray, Yurek Gasperowicz and others can reach ranges of 300 and even over 400 meters with simple stones I’d think scores of professionally trained peltists of the Antiquity using lead bullets could as well. And the range of average slingers was probably about the same as that of the average archers.

Quote:

The current World Flight record in the English Longbow class (historically “authentic” apart from synthetic strings and glues) is 306 meters (1004 ft.).

Are you absolutely sure about that?  I'm sure it says in "Longbow", by Robert Hardy, that various people have shot longbows over 350m.  I'll see if I can find a/the quote.

Yes I am sure. I have the official Flight World Records at hand. The National Flight Championships are held 3rd-5th September  2004 in Utah. Some new records may soon be made.

There have been claims of much longer distances attained by various people using all kinds of bows but they are not substantiated. Record attempts are valid only when made under the eyes of critical experts and  measured with accurate methods. The Hardy book contains an old English record by a certain "Mr. Troward", who apparently shot a little further than the current record in the late 1700's. Maybe...

Back in the 1940's when natural-material flight shooting was at it's peak (just before the fiberglass craze), wooden arrows were shot from wooden bows over 400 meters. But these bows were so overstressed and underbuilt that it was common for them to explode at the first, or third, shot. In ancient cultures where flight shooting was practiced as a sport, the bows used for war were longer and much more massive, with heavier strings and arrows, than the flight bows. All these changes diminish the maximum cast of a bow. Flight records tell little of the everyday performance of everyday bows.

This stuff is truly amazing.  If we keep brainstorming and competing and trying new things, I think that in twenty years even we'll be reaching 2000-2300 feet.  Just think: they took computers from room sized dinosaurs to laptops three times as fast in just 50 years.  

I've never thrown these glandes: how is it done to make them spiral?  Is the gland placed sideways in pouch, with points at the openings?  
Oh, and Jurek, I had an idea for your circular glandes.  You might try dimpling them like golf balls and putting backspin on them.  

solobo,


Quote:

I had an idea for your circular glandes.  You might try dimpling them like golf balls and putting backspin on them.

Yeah. It make sense, but I believe, that an adentage of elongated shape is bigger, despite a lack of the lift. Nevertheless it doesn't mean that your idea is less right.

Jurek

Jurek,
Yeah, I'm pretty sure your right.  Wouldn't it be neat to figure out a way to give the glandes lift? 8)

I just throw rocks I find, which are usually odd-shaped, so it's far from a clean experiment, but I've watched rocks thrown at a 45 degree angle suddenly swerve almost straight up from an underhand cast.  I think it's from backspin.  

This should be part of the basic reading:Why Are Golf Balls Dimpled?
The problem is in ensuring that your sling imparts a backspin rather than any other kind of spin... (frontspin? sidespin?)

I'm with Jurek.   It's going to be very tough to beat the range of a "football shaped" glande pitched point-first with rifle spin on it.  

Dimples cut drag.  Backspin on a dimpled sphere can even create lift.  

But the drag reduction and lift provided by dimples on a sphere wont have nearly the effect of taking that same spherical mass and reforming into an ellipsoid (say) 3-4 times as long as it it "fat".  

I think Yurek & others here have done the math to predict this.   And pitching ellipsoids point-first with rifle spin can be done fairly consistently.

mgreenfield

Elongated glandes also can develop some lift, when they fly in the point-first way but sightly reclinate upwars. Something like a wing.

I think keeping the point-first fly is the same kind of problem like puting backspin on projectiles. Due to big density of lead the backspin should be pretty fast in order to get a significant lift. But we should consider that any spin slows down a projectile, just takes some part of kinetic energy.

Generally, I don't like excessive spin on stones. It gives "buzzy" shots, very short and inaccurate, but sometimes very spectacular and odd, indeed :)

I often play with my dog slinging for him tennis balls. I like nwmanitu's way for them, because they fly pretty stright, only when they slow down, sometimes tend to go a bit to right. When I use my more sideway way, they go along trajectory curved to right. Just effect of the spin.

BTW. My dog loves that play, but alas, he also like to destroy tennis balls (and sometimes they crash when hit something hard). So now, I wrap them tightly around with duct tape, hence they live longer and fly markedly better. Nice relatively secure ammo.

Jurek

A projectile that spins on it's longitudinal axis, such axis being parallel to it's direction of travel,  will usually traverse a longer distance than a projectile without benefit of such gyroscopic stabilization.    Virtually the whole of modern ballistic science is predicated upon spinning projectiles.   As sling projectiles have an inherent spin,  it is worthwhile to seek control of the spin velocity and direction for maximum efficiency.  

Of course,  gyroscopic stabilization is unnecessary when slinging darts with flechette stabilizers,  and it is the dart which, unsurprisingly, yields further distances.  As touched upon by Yurek in his preceding post, some potential forward velocity is traded for increased stability and such exchanges can be tightly controlled for maximum efficiency.  The larger the pocket, the longer contact is maintained with the projectile and the faster the spin.  Thusly, a pocket that is just large enough for a given ammo, will produce slower spin rates and higher velocities.  The sling dart eliminates any need for such considerations and in my limited experiences, is superior in almost every way.

I am reminded of an account I read awhile back of a man who invented ring shaped bullets.  Supposedly, the ammo yielded amazing distance and accuracy but fell into obscurity for various reasons.   I have studied the dynamics of such ammo and it is quite promising as a sling ammo as well!    I have toyed with the 'Xylo',  an aerodynamic marvel of efficiency that can be thrown over 150yrds by myself and is reported to have been thrown 200yrds or more.  Truly,  there is much more to the science of ballistics to be uncovered.....

Perhaps ammo for distance records is ellipsoid WITH little shrouded fins on the tail, pitched from a standard sling.  

For a rough approximation of what this ammo would look like see the photo at http://www.atomicmuseum.com/tour/dd2.cfm, and imagine the yellow bomb reduced to maybe just 2-3" long.

mgreenfield

That is a good supposition, however......since such ammo is already optimized for gyro-stable flight and ammo spin is unavoidable in a 'normal sling' ...the fins would be somewhat redundant, apart from highly specialized setups.  As I mentioned previously,  attatching flechettes to the sling pocket for the purpose of achieving correct and consistent ammo orientation at release, is simple and quite effective.  Of course,  one can forgo these contrivances by experimentation through trial and error.   I have found, largely through sheer determination,  that our individual biomechanical makeup will prefer a particular sling length and pocket design to achieve acceptably consistent results.  For instance,  I found early on with the sling that a 38" sling with narrow pocket and cord retention ring (a small metal ring just fitting over the sling cords which slides down to cinch the pocket around the stone) will provide me with quite consistent 'football spiral' releases within a fairly small range of acceptable stone sizes and shapes.  

8)

Techstuff:
this "cord retention ring"--I can see how it would hold the stone better, but how does it work when you release?  It seems like the rock would stay in the pocket, held there by the ring.   ???

It can be done as simply as tying a small loop in the retention cord just above the pocket after the release cord has been passed through it.  This allows the release cord to slide through cleanly after release.   There is an inherent benefit to using a retention ring or tying a loop as the ammo is cinched tighter in the pocket thereby allowing for a smaller pocket and less energy wasted to spin. ;)

I prefer to use a metal washer or ring retainer as a tied loop will suffer wear.  I would use a tied loop only for a temporary set up.

techstuff, ....the metal ring idea is very interesting.    Hondero once offered a 1-string sling that sounded similar to your setup.  Please can you tell me:

With a metal ring near the pocket on the retained cord; AND the released cord running through this ring, you still get clean releases??  That is, the ammo doesnt "hang" on the released cord??

How many inches up the cord from the pocket do you attach the metal ring??   How did you determine this to be optimal??

What are the shape & dimensions of the pocket itself??

Can you put "football spirals" on ellipsoid ammo??

What grip do you use on the cords??

Any chance of pics of this setup??

Many tnx!   mgreenfield

The stored energy in the system is explosively released drawing the release cord through the ring with enough momentum to carry it out of harms way,  (usually with a good ammo choice)  I like to use teflon tubing to cover the bottom couple inches of release cord.  Johnny is about the only one I can think of that could probably accurately portray what is occurring at release in a frame by frame sketch.  That would be a feat.....to capture a macro shot of the rock and pocket during release and in high speed video to boot!   I usually use a simple 1/4" ring washer and let it slide freely around both cords.  It snugs itself up against the pocket during the sling event.  I will try and get more pics up soon.

Very interesting.  I'm going to have to try that.

I thought some of us may benefit with this thread on the first page. :)

Any updates to the world record?  I got a feeling Knollslinger can break it....... ???

1565 feet that 521 yards and a bit, right? and they did it with a dart.

wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2004 at 3:19pm:

A projectile that spins on it's longitudinal axis, such axis being parallel to it's direction of travel,  will usually traverse a longer distance than a projectile without benefit of such gyroscopic stabilization.    Virtually the whole of modern ballistic science is predicated upon spinning projectiles.   As sling projectiles have an inherent spin,  it is worthwhile to seek control of the spin velocity and direction for maximum efficiency.   Of course,  gyroscopic stabilization is unnecessary when slinging darts with flechette stabilizers,  and it is the dart which, unsurprisingly, yields further distances.  As touched upon by Yurek in his preceding post, some potential forward velocity is traded for increased stability and such exchanges can be tightly controlled for maximum efficiency.  The larger the pocket, the longer contact is maintained with the projectile and the faster the spin.  Thusly, a pocket that is just large enough for a given ammo, will produce slower spin rates and higher velocities.  The sling dart eliminates any need for such considerations and in my limited experiences, is superior in almost every way. I am reminded of an account I read awhile back of a man who invented ring shaped bullets.  Supposedly, the ammo yielded amazing distance and accuracy but fell into obscurity for various reasons.   I have studied the dynamics of such ammo and it is quite promising as a sling ammo as well!    I have toyed with the 'Xylo',  an aerodynamic marvel of efficiency that can be thrown over 150yrds by myself and is reported to have been thrown 200yrds or more.  Truly,  there is much more to the science of ballistics to be uncovered.....

I am in fact trying to design a pocket that will be two leathers sewn along a seam, housing a flat round projectile that will lanuch like a frisbee.

It is a little hard to do.  My sling style with small pocket and knot to knot grip launches stones with little spin bradside to the target.. great for a massive impact, but perhaps not best for super distance.. my goal 1/2 mile.

i use stones the way you described you will proberly have to make your own disks because stones are realy unstable keep working at it  

A couple of days ago I stopped on a different beach than I normally do when kayaking. I usually avoid it because the rocks there are all flat like little frisbees. I was slinging them like a sidearm baseball pitch and it was pretty cool. Most would fly for a bit then bank to one side and plummet. A few, the spinning flat ones would fly and when they stabilized they seemed to gain altitude even.

I want to try what you are suggesting knoll. I think that frisbee shaped projectile might just be the ticket. I was thinking maybe a mini circular airfoil like an aerobie ony smaller and denser. That would make a lethal weapon too if you could aim them.

disk or coinshape lead sinkers fly pretty well might try some of them

maybe you could try the mini 'c lay pidgeons

Does anyone on the forum feel they have a chance on breaking the record?  I have heard that both Yurek and Knollslinger can throw more than 500 yards........ :-/

It is certainly possible for several here to do so....however I, for my part, have weighed the options and have found that such an accomplishment would mean less to me than informal competition among comrades.   Knowing, as I do,  that there will always be someone out there, like myself, who cares little for having one's name in a record book for name's sake.....who could eclipse my 'record' and perhaps even on a daily basis, makes for a hollow 'accomplishment'.

Also, look at the current records.....theoretically we all could hold, each, his own record relating to type of sling and projectile used and goal of the sling event.  A dart for height....rock with natural materials....rock with tech stuff....ad nauseum.

One could make the case for simply the furthest slung 'inert' projectile....period.   But I for one am not a 'hoop jumper' at the prospect of a hollow hallmark.....knowing full well that I am not 'really' the best distance slinger in the world.

Sure,  I've reached some exciting distances with my contraptions,  and I am even more sure that various others could blow my socks off with the same equipment.

You give a highly efficient piece of slinging equipment to a tall lanky world class baseball pitcher and I am sure that after a short bit of study.......I would be as beat as a burro in no time.

But who knows......If I actually had the ambition to push those stodgy Guiness people for a new try....and succeeded.....

I would probably give in to heady display of chest beating for a bit.......and invite you all to a good recreation of an old family pub in Gawsworth, England:  'Robinson's Pub'  where we could all get warm and social.....so that at least one of you could show me up in short order.....even after a couple gallons of Irish stout.

;)

Quote:

Does anyone on the forum feel they have a chance on breaking the record?  I have heard that both Yurek and Knollslinger can throw more than 500 yards........

I feel that I has well of must of the other people here could proably be world record holders. Do I want to be a record holder? No. I believe I could proably be able to do it with the right sling and project, but it just seams to me a slap in the face to all the dead and gone slinger that could proably out range most of us with their lives on the life. They deserve the credit, not me. But of coarse the record books won't go for that.

p.s. I would still like to see someone from this forum get the record though.

I would like to see someone from the forum do it too!  I don't have a chance at it.  My best throw is about 300 yards.  

Can you reach the 500 yards range, Gun?  What style do you use?

Quote:

Can you reach the 500 yards range, Gun?  What style do you use?

Not yet but with lot of practice and the right sling I could get close. I just ment by my post with the right stuff anyone could get very long ranges.

I hope we have some competitors this coming spring.  If people honestly think they can do it, I might try to fly/drive out to them.  I want to witness the glory!

Chris

Chris,  I hope you see things this spring, the veracity of which, require your naked eyes and a several trusted witnesses to confirm.


Here is to a dynamic and interesting spring season, for us all!

8)

You're all going about this completely the wrong way...what you need is a dart shaped projectile that once it reaches its apogee, spring activated glide wings fold out and it will continue to glide at least 3/4 of a mile before it comes back down to good ol' terra firma...if you're lucky it will catch thermal updrafts, which will require putting your address on the projectile so it may be returned once it is found a few counties away...  ;) j/k.... ::)

Bumping this for ease of finding the discussion about Larry's record in his own words.

Great find digging these up IG!  Since they're related to records, I might move this and the other thread to the Slinging as a Sport board.  There's less traffic there, but they also won't get buried as quickly as they will in General Discussion.  Thoughts?

I'm fine with it. Since it hasn't been brought up for 20 years, it seems safe to say that no one is going to miss it in the General discussion.

I checked the "Wayback Machine" to see if any of the images from the original posts could be recovered, but it seems that they are lost.