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How long does it take? (Read 256 times)
Shakli
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How long does it take?
Aug 28th, 2020 at 4:51am
 
According to this: https://thenextweb.com/lifehacks/2013/10/24/doesnt-take-10000-hours-learn-skill-
takes-20-heres-now/

20 hours to learn a skill. 
10,000 hours to master.

From my experience 20 hours definitely got me throwing consistently with a sling.  But I am no where near close to being able to hunt with it, even after a hundred or so hours of practice.  I really wonder how many hours you need to be good enough to hunt with a sling....

Is this the reason the bow became more of a hunting weapon?  20 hours with a bow and you are good enough to hunt?
How about a gun?  20 hours enough to hunt with it?  I have no idea, just asking as I have never actually hunted ever in my life.
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Mersa
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #1 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 5:04am
 
I can’t comment on the 10,000 hours but your question about hunting I can.
I think that the gun and bow are eaisier to hunt with because they’re both deadly and accurate at a longer distance than a sling if all you had was 20hours practice. However let’s change the scenario a little.
If you want to hunt what are we hunting?
Elephants???
Or mice????
Where are we getting our money/ammunition??
Or time to actually hunt?

The sling has many great properties as a tool and they can be implemented into hunting but no one tool does every job.
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Razor glandes, Aim for the eyes!!!
 
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 5:25am
 
What hunt are we talking about ?
20 hours are sufficient for some hunt. Shoot in a swarm of birds on a field or on a pond. For exemple.
In addition, some hunts are done in groups.
I am not a sniper but I can shoot in a specific direction.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #3 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 8:43am
 
10,000 hours is a stupid rule.

It’s based on Malcolm Gladwell’s misinterpretation of K Anders Ericsson’s research on expertise. In the book “Peak”, Ericsson specifically addresses the 10,000 hour “rule” and why it’s wrong.

The short version is that you can spend 10,000 hours doing something and actually get worse if you practice the wrong way. Plus, there is no evidence that you have “arrived” after 10,000 hours. It’s an arbitrary round number.
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Kick
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #4 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 9:18am
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Aug 28th, 2020 at 8:43am:
The short version is that you can spend 10,000 hours doing something and actually get worse if you practice the wrong way.


Very different scenario, but it was only very recently I realised I had been spelling the Finnish word for "clothes" wrong. I had been leaving out a t for... well, I have to write "clothes" pretty much everyday at work when documenting and I've been studying and working at the same old folks home for 5 years.

5 years.

I've been spelling it wrong for 5 years.

This is also a good example of Finnish people being so polite they won't even tell you when you butcher their language Cheesy
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #5 - Aug 28th, 2020 at 12:29pm
 
with something that relies so much on hand eye coordination - it depends an awful lot on the actual slinger.

Some peoiple will spend a lifetime slinging and never get close to being able to hunt.

Some might master in inside a couple of months.

The sling is unique among projectile weapons in that there is nothing to aim with and you don't store energy and then release (well technically the windup is where the eneryby is created and 'stored' and the release or throw is where it is released).

Yes all thrown weapons are like this. But the sling is the only weapon that throws a seperate projectile where the conditions of aiming and energy storing are so extreme.

You can argue that an atlatl is in the same category.
But it's actually much easier to aim an atlatl. It pretty much travels in a straight kline and you can usually see the tip of the spear before you throw and aim with it.

Slings are pure muscle memory and raw brain calculation.

It;s why someone who has been slinging for 20 odd years - but never at a fixed target - will struggle with throwing at a fixed target.
It requires a lot more initial thought than just instinct throwing at a moving or random size/distance target.

For something like balearic target shooting you actually have to re-educate your muscle memory and establish a whole new set.

But even there - it's down to the individual slinger.
You see this all the time at the international. There are balearic slingers who have been slinging their whole lives - some of them might hit the target only once in a blue moon.

The second worst slinger I've ever seen is the guy who runs the soler slinging club and has been slinging for decades, he's even got his own range.
In 5 years I only ever saw him hit the target once !

A natural slinger - someone with very good hand eye coordination - can become an amazing slinger - but even they need a LOT of practice.
Jaegoor and Luis pons - two great examples.

They are both amazing to watch. But they both put in hours and hours and hours of training.

Some people are even more gifted and can stay accurate without the long hours of prqactice.
Mar Cuesta Olivares - is a great example.
One of the best female balearic slingers - hell one of the best regardless of gender, and a very hard throwing slinger.

These days she reckons she mainly slings just at competitions and does very little training.
I would not bet against her in a competition Smiley 

So slinging is not really a skill that can be easily quantified.

Yes more practive will usually produce better results - but not always Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Shakli
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 12:59am
 
10,000 is a stupid rule if you are trying to learn a skill...  But that number as an average is correct when it comes to how long top tier athletes have to practice in order to be competitive.  People have taken that research and applied it incorrectly to all things.

To just learn a skill 20 hours of working smart is all you need.

When I was asking about hunting I was thinking of birds or small game. 

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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 6:07am
 
In an interview, Malcolm Gladwell qualified the 10,000 hour rule by saying that the number doesn’t matter, but if you want to become an expert, those 10,000 hours are spent not doing other things, which means that you can’t be an expert in everything and other people will probably have to pick up the slack for you in other areas if you are that focused. In other words... not even Gladwell believes in the rule! It was just a literary device.

I am a big fan of the Mike Boyd school of skill building. He rarely spends even 20 hours on a new skill, but he sets specific goals and achieves impressive feats usually in less than 10 hours.

@Shakli, I understand what you’re saying though, and the answer depends a lot on the details.  Whether it’s 5 hours, 20 hours, or 10,000... if you decide to learn a skill, set a specific goal, then break it down. If the goal is “hunting”, then are you talking about a deer? A squirrel? A bird?  Among birds, a dove is probably going to be easier to hit than a duck, but you need to hunt a lot more of them to feed your family. You might not need extreme accuracy if you are throwing at a flock of birds on the ground in an open field, and maybe you can get enough food even if you’re only successful 10% of the time. If you’re talking about modern hunting for sport instead of survival... then the important thing is that you go out in the woods and drink a lot of beer, and you don’t actually have to hit anything at all Grin
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Sarosh
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 8:59am
 
Also think of this:
If you play the piano for 1 hour then you played the piano for 1hour.
If you practiced slinging for 1hour then you performed a maximum of 300 throws (or tries) but if we are realistic you probably did less than 100 throws. if a throw is 1 second then from the 60minutes only 2-5 minutes where the act of throwing.

so good luck trying to reach even 100h per year of pure throwing.
my conclusion, it's nice to quantify things but sometimes it harms more than it helps (stagnation). Also what happens in the mind and cannot be quantified by us is probably far more important, visualization can be as useful as practice.
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Rat Man
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Re: How long does it take?
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2020 at 2:08pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Aug 28th, 2020 at 12:29pm:
with something that relies so much on hand eye coordination - it depends an awful lot on the actual slinger.

Some peoiple will spend a lifetime slinging and never get close to being able to hunt.  Smiley


This pretty much says it all.
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