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Problem with thin efficient slings (Read 858 times)
Morphy
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #30 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 9:49am
 
My cleanest throwing sling has been with paracord and a tab at the end. Basically the closest to reverse taper you are likely to see.

I wonder how much it really matters that a release cord is tapered? Is the stone really that likely to contact the end of the cord? I think the only time Iíve had this happen was when using very poor ammo which didnít release cleanly due to the ammo not the sling.

Maybe certain throwing styles and/or set ups are more prone to such problems. To my knowledge it hasnít been a huge issue with my paracord slings.

Come to think of it a stone is a lot more likely to contact the near pouch portion of the cord so wouldnít it make sense to have that as small as possible?
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #31 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 12:45pm
 
The ammo should be out of the pouch after the release cord has moved outward by half the length of the pouch. Itís only a few inches. The mass distribution shouldnít have a huge effect either way. The biggest reason to taper is for that supersonic whip crack.
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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jauke
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #32 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 1:13pm
 
I really do advise to buy one of Luis slings. I learned a lot from it
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jauke
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #33 - Jul 31st, 2020 at 1:50pm
 
Oh if you do decide to tie a weight to the end of your release cord, be weary of the dangers. I used a little hex nut but I am looking for something safer. You'd have to be clumsy to really hurt yourself with it but it can happen.
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Kick
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #34 - Aug 1st, 2020 at 4:27am
 
I've whipped myself pretty hard just with a knot and it can sting like hell.
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Mersa
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #35 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 4:11am
 
Thin efficient sling in action!!!



VvvvvvvvvvV
      VvvV
         V
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jauke
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 4:03pm
 
I understand what you say now Mersa. You are right about a taper hastening a release.
That does not mean that an extremely tapered cord (i.e. very thick a the base) would release quicker than just a straight thin cord (the misunderstanding). And if there's a fluffy end it will slow it down again.
Before I tied a little weight I had a knot. To my mind it felt as if it released quicker with the tiny weight. I added a larger weight and it slowed down again. That means it can't open up quicker with more weight at the end. It is counterintuitive.

But now that I have removed both the weight and the knot it feels as if that gives the quickest release. No knot, no weight, no tab, no fluffy tail. Just the thinnest cord possible
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #37 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 5:40pm
 
jauke wrote on Aug 3rd, 2020 at 4:03pm:
I understand what you say now Mersa. You are right about a taper hastening a release.
That does not mean that an extremely tapered cord (i.e. very thick a the base) would release quicker than just a straight thin cord (the misunderstanding). And if there's a fluffy end it will slow it down again.
Before I tied a little weight I had a knot. To my mind it felt as if it released quicker with the tiny weight. I added a larger weight and it slowed down again. That means it can't open up quicker with more weight at the end. It is counterintuitive.

But now that I have removed both the weight and the knot it feels as if that gives the quickest release. No knot, no weight, no tab, no fluffy tail. Just the thinnest cord possible


I quite enjoy reading your posts. It's almost like a stream of consciousness.

I was thinking that a weight on the end should impede the sling from opening faster, but I held my tongue in the occasion of you coming back with video evidence proving me wrong Smiley

Actually, I was thinking that if you had a small weight on the release side of the pouch might help with opening. Because the weight is out at a larger radius in the rotating reference frame (with the same angular velocity), the force on it should be larger, allowing more acceleration and hence the pouch should open faster.  So the balearic sling design may actually be something the helps to open the sling, given it's overall large mass. Of course thin and light should "open" faster.  And I say "open" because it simply means that the sling is out of the way, enough for the projectile to get by. A heavier sling has more inertia and can affect the projectile more by being in contact with it.
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jauke
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2020 at 2:22am
 
Yeah a version of the Balearic sling that was not tapered would definitely release later than a tapered one.
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Mersa
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #39 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 7:34pm
 
I agree IG , Iíve always pondered the idea of a weight on the release side of the pouch to help open the sling but truth be told itís only a thought and Iíve not tryed it in practice
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #40 - Aug 6th, 2020 at 8:20am
 
(Sigh)... I really do need to set up those high speed video experiments.  Iíll add cord mass distribution to the list of experiments to try... some day.
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #41 - Aug 6th, 2020 at 8:27am
 
Not to be a huge downer but release timing is far less crucial imo than is being made out to be in this thread.

The crucial part of it is consistent release timing. So long as it happens consistently from one shot to the next thatís all that matters for target and perhaps even distance. On a decent throw the stone is already exiting the pouch in a matter of tenths of a second.

That being said Iím a hypocrite  as Iíve considered for years putting a weak elastic cord on the release side of the pouch to flip it open faster. I never did because I canít reason out how that would actually help. Interesting idea though.
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ďEvery record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.Ē
 
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #42 - Aug 6th, 2020 at 8:48am
 
By the way, thereís two extremes to consider for pouch opening: one is where the release cord swings outward without bending... opening the pouch like a hinge. That would be the slowest mode of opening the pouch because the entire release cord has to swing 180 degrees to completely open the pouch. The other extreme is where the release cord moves outward, parallel to the retention cord, gliding directly away from the slingerís hand. This rolls the pouch open and is the fastest release because the pouch will be flat after a few inches of motion.

Real slings will do something in between these two behaviors. The pouch rolls open and the release cord also swings away. If a particular weight setup reduces the release cordís outward swing, then it will release faster, but added mass will also slow the acceleration of the cord, so for any particular motion, less mass will open the pouch faster. 

Howís that for a complicated non-answer? Grin

Obviously we need experiments and high speed video to get a real answer.
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #43 - Aug 6th, 2020 at 8:50am
 
@Morphy, If you buy into the hinge versus glide model above, it may very well be a source of inconsistency in the release timing if the sling opens differently each time.

(I suspect the slinger is still the most significant factor most of the time though)
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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jauke
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Re: Problem with thin efficient slings
Reply #44 - Aug 6th, 2020 at 9:00am
 
I have swapped to using 1.5mm cords for my y-sling. For retention I have installed a lightweight smooth plastic bead and the pouch size is perfect for steel balls, golf balls and tennisballs and clay balls of golf ball size up to the size of a tennisball.

I've also swapped the wrist loop for a cinching index finger loop that is then turned another 5 times around the finger or so, so that it ends right next to my release bead. This way I don't need to grab both cords in order to ensure a narrow/pinch grip.

I am also thinking of an even stronger grip, more like hammer throwers use, using a toggle, and having a trigger system of some sort. Most critical thing with Y-slings is that both the release cord and retention cord are placed right side by side.

Release timing is absolutely critical. It determines the amount of friction and thus the amount of spin.
My y-sling puts very little spin on smooth projectiles, so they become knuckle balls.
You cannot see the erratic movement of steel balls in flight because the small erratic movements that are a part of a super fast knuckle throw are invisible to the naked eye.

If you want a near-instant release sling the Y-way is the only logical way, imo, at least of all the real world designs we currently have.

It may seem counterintuitive to say that a knuckle ball is more accurate and will fly further on long distances, but as a projectile for hand-slings, weighting all cons and pros side by side and considering all factors,† I suspect it is
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''He leads the humble in what is right,
† † and teaches the humble his way.''
Psalm 25:9
 
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