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Arm throw compared to sling throw. (Read 376 times)
slingingrocksforfun
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Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Jun 30th, 2020 at 5:50am
 
If i was to use 80% of my strength to throw a 125 gram projectile X distance, how would that compare, powerwise, with using the same strength to sling same projectile with a sling same length as my arm (60cm)?
What formula or equation should i use?
Srff.
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Mersa
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #1 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 5:56am
 
I think this question is too broad.
Is it a basketball, baseball, golf ball size??
Lots comes into play .
But as a general rule with correct technique I think you will throw further with a sling, or just as far with less effort.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #2 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 8:11am
 
Of course you can throw further with a sling.
How much more force is created by the extra 60cm sling length?
If i held a 125g stone and threw it underhand @80% strength.
Then a underhand sling throw @80% strength.
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Mersa
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #3 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 8:28am
 
To properly answer this I think we need robots and some good maths.
Truthfully we don’t really know the equation because the technique is so dynamic.
Looking forward to other forum members responses
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #4 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 2:20pm
 
   I think such an equation would be impossible to come up with because of the variations in individual slingers' bodies, strengths, weaknesses, quirks, etc.  Using me as an example, I can't throw for crap.  So my slinging/throwing comparison would be very different from someone who has a good arm.  Mersa has the correct answer I believe.  We would need specifically designed robots to come up with an accurate equation.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #5 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 2:40pm
 
so to answer the actual question.

If you use a sling the same length as your arm, then you should - logically be able to get it twice as a far.
Realistically, because you use a completely different technique to use a sling you should be able to get it a lot further than twice as far.

I won all sorts of throwing competitions in my distant youth. Including welly throwing at the camp fete - against much taller kids.

Most british kids spend their youth kicking a ball - I always preferred to throw things.


This question gets interesting when you get a human with ridiculously long arms who is trained to throw.

I've always said if you could have got hold of randy johnson in his prime and have larry bray (himself a baseball pitcher in his youth) train him to sling - he'd have broken the world record with ease.

A skinny 7 foot tall MLB pitcher has arms longer than my arm and a decent length sling combined.
Could he throw further than i can sling ?
With a baseball - absolutely - those things are horrible to sling.
With a smaller, denser missile ? probably not. 

So yeah it does come down to the missile being thrown.
But on balance you should always be able to get it further with a sling - as long as you did both throws Smiley
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #6 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 3:37pm
 
Its far too complex to come up with a simple equation, both distances are very dependant upon skill and specific training of muscles/actions and there are many variables with regards to ammo mass and sling design which will have non-trivial effects.

I'll say the basic facts that the energy (and therefore 'muzzle' velocity) of a projectile is a factor of the force applied and the arc over which it is applied. Longer slings create longer arcs but it's not always easy biomechanically to transfer the force. E.g. if you had a 30cm long arm and a 2m long sling you would simply not be able to utilise it very effectively. You can feel this in the tension of the cords being less. In contrast a very short sling can more easily max out the force but over a much shorter arc.

It's hard to even figure out clean rules for how slings work but when you consider that the physics is inevitably entangled with the human body you just enter another world of complexity.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #7 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 3:56pm
 
There are a million factors and those are just the ones we know about. Everything from air density to the surface friction of the projectile can have an effect and even if they are tiny effects they might be adding up with other tiny effects to have a large overall effect. Broadly, slings throw further than just arms.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #8 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 4:16pm
 
one approach is to throw for max range with sling and without sling and divide to find a ratio.  that will give you an empirical formula.

for me I think it is
sling velocity = 2 x pitching velocity
sling range = ~3.3 x long toss

(sling length 75-90cm)
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #9 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 4:35pm
 

and the range for a shot at 45° in vaccum is D= (velocity ^2)/g
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_of_a_projectile

an average human today seems to throw 20-30m/s by hand
for an average human you would get 40m-90m long toss in vacuum
with sling (2x) 40-60m/s which give a range of 163m - 366m in vacuum
and 132m-297m with the 3.3x formula

as you can see this cant get more specific or accurate because there are too many factors in internal ballistics and external ballistics as others said above.

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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #10 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 4:58pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 30th, 2020 at 4:35pm:
and the range for a shot at 45° in vaccum is D= (velocity ^2)/g
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_of_a_projectile

an average human today seems to throw 20-30m/s by hand
for an average human you would get 40m-90m long toss in vacuum
with sling (2x) 40-60m/s which give a range of 163m - 366m in vacuum
and 132m-297m with the 3.3x formula

as you can see this cant get more specific or accurate because there are too many factors in internal ballistics and external ballistics as others said above.



I was literally just about to post all this. Nevermind I’m dumb.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #11 - Jul 1st, 2020 at 4:37pm
 
Thanks folks for interesting answers.
I would say my max arm throw would now days be about 25m. With same weight ammo and my 60cm sling I could easily throw x3 that distance.
Some cricketers have amazing underarm throwing ability.
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #12 - Jul 2nd, 2020 at 3:24am
 
slingingrocksforfun wrote on Jul 1st, 2020 at 4:37pm:
I would say my max arm throw would now days be about 25m. With same weight ammo and my 60cm sling I could easily throw x3 that distance.

it could be that you have trained much more with the sling than with the arm that you get more than 3x long toss.

P.S. : I think my bests are 70m with hand 235m with sling hence the 3.3x
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #13 - Jul 2nd, 2020 at 9:08am
 
Quote:
Some cricketers have amazing underarm throwing ability.


Except that underarm bowling is not allowed in the modern game of cricket.
Overarm bowling only.

You're probably thinking of softball pitchers and some women softball pitchers can produce amazing speed throws with purely underarm throws.

And despite how she speaks at the start - this video is NOT speeded up !


Holy moly batman, that girl can THROW !
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Re: Arm throw compared to sling throw.
Reply #14 - Jul 2nd, 2020 at 10:39am
 
she is slinging underhand, her arm is the sling.
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