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Defund the Police (Read 975 times)
NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #15 - Jun 10th, 2020 at 10:36pm
 
Morphy wrote on Jun 10th, 2020 at 9:39am:
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jun 10th, 2020 at 1:12am:
It’s very inconvenient, you know. With the Covid-19 pandemic, I have already had to become janitorial staff at “the office“ on top of my normal job duties as an engineer.  On days when my pregnant wife is too nauseous to get out of bed, I have to be the teacher/babysitter and 3-meals/day cook for my 3 kids while also trying to get my time in working from home. Dishes pile up if we don’t wash them twice a day because we’re cooking more often and for more people than normal. Now I also have to be my own law enforcement?!  Who’s got time for all that? I guess I could maybe make it work if criminals promise to only attempt crimes on weekends.



Hey NOOC I know a guy who knows a guy that is requesting to rob your home. How is next week for you? Could you pencil him in some time around 10am (he usually sleeps late). If not just let me know what would be a good time for you thanks!


If he really needs my stuff that bad I’ll see if I can pencil him in in a week or two. I want to make sure I don’t feed my dog for a couple of days beforehand so he’s nice and cranky.   If all goes well, criminals will soon be begging the police to come back.  Texas is already a  particularly tough place to be a criminal these days, so you might just recommend that the guy move to Baltimore or Chicago... or maybe ask Rat Man if there are any openings in New Jersey.
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« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2020 at 11:28am by NooneOfConsequence »  

“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #16 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 9:10am
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Jun 10th, 2020 at 10:16am:
A whole lot of police procedure problems could be solved with better training.  Better training is expensive.  When a city has a budget crunch, the first thing that gets cut is the police training budget.  And after the crunch, the money never seems to go back into training. 


This bit is a key contradiction. The demand to defund the police AND requiring more training/education for them. If you thought it was  thankless job before wait til we implement Pharaoh's "bricks with no straw" order.

Meanwhile Chicago has shown that with all the issues the Chicago PD has (and they are legion) they're still a net force for good in that city. They got distracted by riots and the criminal element set a new record (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52984535)
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Caldou
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #17 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 3:32pm
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Jun 10th, 2020 at 10:16am:
Or, you could simply require the police to have individual insurance, if they are sued by a citizen and lose, their insurance, not the taxpayers, has to foot the bill.  And I've got lots more faith in an insurance company taking actual steps to prevent lawsuits that any politician.  And the added benefit is that if the same person keeps getting sued and losing, his rates will increase to the point that he can't pay them and he has to leave.



I think that statement is the most USian PoW I read in a long time ^^ From this side of the pond, I don't think anybody would think of using an insurance company for delegating what is fundamentaly a State duty, monitoring the police force and ensuring it is doing it's job. I even think some may think along the lines of "more funding more controlled", but I'm what most of you in the US would consider a Dark And Evil Commy :p
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Morphy
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #18 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 7:12pm
 
Caldou wrote on Jun 11th, 2020 at 3:32pm:
Bill Skinner wrote on Jun 10th, 2020 at 10:16am:
Or, you could simply require the police to have individual insurance, if they are sued by a citizen and lose, their insurance, not the taxpayers, has to foot the bill.  And I've got lots more faith in an insurance company taking actual steps to prevent lawsuits that any politician.  And the added benefit is that if the same person keeps getting sued and losing, his rates will increase to the point that he can't pay them and he has to leave.



I think that statement is the most USian PoW I read in a long time ^^ From this side of the pond, I don't think anybody would think of using an insurance company for delegating what is fundamentaly a State duty, monitoring the police force and ensuring it is doing it's job. I even think some may think along the lines of "more funding more controlled", but I'm what most of you in the US would consider a Dark And Evil Commy :p


Youre our favorite Commy Caldou!  Grin Grin

If it makes you feel better I kill and consume the flesh of innocent animals. I am Dark and Evil too.  Cheesy
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #19 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 7:49pm
 
I confess that the part about the insurance was sort of sarcastic.  However, if the police gets sued, the money comes from the taxpayer to pay for his lawyer and any awards paid to the complainant are also tax dollars, so the police department, the policeman and all his supervisors basically get off for free.

So, there is no real reason to actually change anything.  Do a little song and dance, the heat will die down and everybody will move on to something else.

BTW, the city of Minneapolis paid out 10 million dollars for a wrongful death in 2010.  Guess how the person died?  Exact same way, from the exact same hold as Floyd.
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Rat Man
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #20 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 11:10pm
 
  I've mentioned this before, but as an army MP we were trained to use minimum force necessary when apprehending a subject.  I we did any of the stuff we see civilian cops doing in these videos we'd go to prison.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #21 - Jun 13th, 2020 at 10:54am
 
Well, no, probably not. 

Public officials have qualified immunity.  That's to prevent them from getting sued by everyone who disagrees with how they are doing their job.  That includes police. 

The problem comes in when qualified immunity starts getting abused.  You can use minimum force or you can dog pile the guy.  If you attempt to use minimum force, you can end up in a one on one fight where the policeman can lose.  And the person he's attempting to arrest now has access to his firearm(s), Taser, pepper spray, handcuffs, means of transportation, radio and phone, etc. 

Easier to dog pile the guy, cuff and stuff him.  Safer for the policeman, not necessarily for the person being apprehended.

I don't know about the rest of the world but the courts have supported quite a lot of force being used to apprehend someone in the name of "officer safety".  Same for using lethal force in a situation.  "Officer Safety" is apparently more important than citizen safety. 

Note I did not say civilian safety, in the US, the police are also civilians, in spite of the uniforms and rank structure.
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Morphy
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #22 - Jun 13th, 2020 at 11:00am
 
And....now we have the CHAZ. an autonomous zone in Seattle that the police have abandoned. This I am ok with, so long as those crazy ******* stay the hell out of Texas lol. Ya’ll want warlords running your cities, fine. Just don’t freak out when you realize it’s not working out and move to Texas. We don’t want that crap around here.  Grin
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #23 - Jun 13th, 2020 at 12:32pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 3:56pm:
    It might not necessarily be a bad thing, Morphy.  One of our South Jersey cities, Camden, the armpit of America, got rid of its profoundly corrupt police force a few years ago.  The county took over the job.  The improvement is significant.  Sometimes a police force is so rotten throwing it away and starting over is the only sensible solution.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/camden-police-defund-minneapolis-george-floyd-prot...


I heard a story on the radio that was interviewing the police chief.  He had a interesting perspective and experience with this. He was fired with the rest of them and then rehired onto essentially the same police force. But because it was new, they had a chance to build it from the ground up and change the policing culture. His entire point about why it was better was that the police had legitimacy with the community. And because they had legitimacy, they were effective. They gained legitimacy by becoming part of the local community. They spoke with the community and asked what ways were the best ways to de-escalate. They got to know members of the community on a personal level. One interesting point he made was that their solve rate on homicides (I think) before the break-up of the force was 16%. After the reformation and reengagement of the community, it went up to 61%, because suddenly, people weren't afraid to talk to them. 

In my view, this is what "Defund the police" should mean, whether or not it is what is meant by others is another thing altogether.
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #24 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 3:53pm
 
Morphy wrote on Jun 13th, 2020 at 11:00am:
And....now we have the CHAZ. an autonomous zone in Seattle that the police have abandoned. This I am ok with, so long as those crazy ******* stay the hell out of Texas lol. Ya’ll want warlords running your cities, fine. Just don’t freak out when you realize it’s not working out and move to Texas. We don’t want that crap around here.  Grin


Ohh - for some reason I thought 'chaz' was in mexico.

Okay - this is where international news falls down.
The only references to chaz I have seen have been on facebook - which is never exactly coherent at the best of times.

So it's a police free zone in seattle ?
I guess that explains the post about them running out of food and water.

Guess I'll have to look it up now.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #25 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 4:01pm
 
lmao - first thing that came up wa s photo with someone holding up a placrad saying: 'the world is watching'.
hate to burst their bubble - But it really isn't.

It's even completely bypassed the bbc !

Okay - a sort of commune - looks like it'll just fizzle out.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Morphy
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #26 - Jun 19th, 2020 at 6:46pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Jun 19th, 2020 at 4:01pm:
lmao - first thing that came up wa s photo with someone holding up a placrad saying: 'the world is watching'.
hate to burst their bubble - But it really isn't.

It's even completely bypassed the bbc !

Okay - a sort of commune - looks like it'll just fizzle out.



In all the directions it could’ve gone it luckily went the hippie direction which is just fine with me. Hippies tend to be a good lot over all. Sing your songs and smoke your weed people just don’t attack anyone and we can all do our own thing.
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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vetryan15
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #27 - Jun 20th, 2020 at 5:39am
 
UPDAT UPDATE. It is now called CHOP. lol

For the recordd Hippies are dirty. My experience with em anyway
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Morphy
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #28 - Jun 20th, 2020 at 6:11am
 
vetryan15 wrote on Jun 20th, 2020 at 5:39am:
UPDAT UPDATE. It is now called CHOP. lol

For the recordd Hippies are dirty. My experience with em anyway


I may have spoken too soon actually. Saw some disturbing videos last night. Guess they don’t make hippies like they used to.
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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vetryan15
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Re: Defund the Police
Reply #29 - Jun 20th, 2020 at 12:57pm
 
Yeh. I spent a few months in that area. Where the user HUNTSMAN lived. But i just saw an article that there was 1 person killed in a shooting. Within the zone. Its a new generation of hippies. Worse then the old knid.
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