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Tree identification (Read 4026 times)
vetryan15
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Tree identification
Apr 25th, 2020 at 12:51pm
 
Maybe someone can help, i am still learning tree identification for my area. I have been told that this is poplar,and cottonwood.  But i believe its the dialect and accents i cant understand, because i have heard it called popple.but that can be a different tree as well. Reason being is i would like to use the sapplings as primative arrows, and darts for atlatl. As you can see my land was logged a few months before i purchased it, i was told that poplar will be the first thing that returns and it grows like a weed. In the 2 pics most saplings are 4ft in height,  about almost 7ft. This is a recent tree i cut down is shown in all parts, except the leaves as i cut it during winter. Do you guys think they would work as arrows and darts  for  atlatl and bows???

Dont mind Jolene,  she was barking at me while taking a pic because the stick by her foot that was half  covered in sawdust, and she couldn't pic it up, she is one of 3 of my woods partners. Greyhound and German shepherd mix, known as a lurcher. She was rescued from a high kill shelter in Philadelphia. 
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #1 - Apr 25th, 2020 at 1:29pm
 
Tree identification isn't one of my fortes, so I can't tell you if the trees are poplar.  But I can tell you that if they are poplar, then yes, that is a good wood for arrows.  Not sure about atlatl darts.  I never made one of those.  But being that they work similarly to arrows, I would imagine it would be fine.
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walter
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #2 - Apr 25th, 2020 at 8:02pm
 
popple means poplar in mainiac. There are a couple species in maine. Are you sure it isn't grey birch? In az, the poplars flower before they leaf out.
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #3 - Apr 25th, 2020 at 8:08pm
 
I’m not familiar with the trees in your area but I would agree that they look very much like poplars I’ve worked on.
Photos of the leaves buds flowers and fruit(seed barring part of the plant) will give me enough info for can probably find out what they are but if your happy with just knowing the genus I’d say you’re pretty much onto it being poplar
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vetryan15
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #4 - Apr 25th, 2020 at 8:44pm
 
I am pretty sure it isnt birch, we have all different kinds, i can definitely identify most birch. That definitely explains why my NJ accent and maine accents dont get along very well. Lol. Another reason why i dont have many friends up here that are generational locals.

I will try to get better pics in a few weeks, after they start budding. Most are at least 35 feet tall. I just picked up an Alaskan  chainsaw mill, so i will be cutting a few more down.

I had read that thry made good arrows, not so much as bows, but i would think that atlatl darts should work. But i guess i will have to test it out. Thanks for all the information everyone,  i will be updating this with pics lnce buds stsrt.
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Mersa
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #5 - Apr 25th, 2020 at 9:09pm
 
For a bow it’s definitely a no if it’s poplar.
Arrows and darts I can see working
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slingbadger
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #6 - Apr 26th, 2020 at 7:01am
 
Looks like poplar to me. It would be a softer wood, so no good for bow. Ash,  Osage orange or Yew would be good choices.
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Morphy
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #7 - Apr 26th, 2020 at 8:14am
 
If you really want to you can try to make a bow from it if you have a long enough piece. The one good thing about using softer woods is they work very fast even under hand tools. It gives you a good opportunity to work on shaping and tillering. Consider leaving the limbs extra wide though 2 inches would be a starting point. Obviously taper towards the tips. I’ve made some decent bows from soft woods. They can be fun. If the grain is good enough get a spokeshave and go to town.
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #8 - Apr 26th, 2020 at 11:49am
 
Make a POLE LATHE !!!!!
(I like pole lathes) lol
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vetryan15
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #9 - Apr 26th, 2020 at 1:27pm
 
Well i have some ash staves cut up,  and drying right now for bows. I have read that poplar can be made from poplar but its gotta be 4 in wide. Which when i make a bow, it will be my 1st ever made, so i would rather start easy.  I would like to attempt to make some arrows since it grows like a weed. I would perfer to find a use for it, and go traditional uses. I been playing with the saplings, pretty springy. So it seems if might work for both
Thanks
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Morphy
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #10 - Apr 26th, 2020 at 9:08pm
 
The width of the limbs will depend on draw weight intended, length of the bow and draw length intended as well as the specific gravity of that particular piece. (Woods vary dramatically even within the same species.) I always encourage people that are newer not to discount so called second string woods because as a newer bow maker you should be focusing on learning how to tiller correctly. You can make three bows from a softer wood like China berry in the same time you can make one from Osage. I think the fastest I’ve ever made one was 15-20 minutes with a drawknife, spokeshave, rasp and cabinet scraper. The tillering you learn on the softer woods translates just fine to harder woods and with much faster results.

Making a 72” longbow with a #40 draw with a normal 28” draw is quite feasible.  From a historical perspective it also shows you how Native Americans and other groups designed bows with less than ideal woods like willow and managed to stay fed.

If one is really concerned about a tension break simply clean the back of the bow to be free of all dirt and oils, let dry and apply a strip of fiberglass reinforced packing tape (or if you wish a more traditional backing.) But packing tape takes about a minute to apply and gives great protection from tension breaks.

Ok I’ve stuck up for my lesser loved woods. Arrows are good too, can’t go wrong either way.  Smiley
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vetryan15
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #11 - Apr 27th, 2020 at 8:27pm
 
I had read that with poplar, the limbs are gonna be wide, due to being relatively weak wood. I read on an archery forum, someone needed almost 4in limbs for poplar. I had purchased a bow building kit from 3 rivers archery. Came with the tillering stick, dvd, scrapers, rasp. I picked up a spokeshave. I own a drawknife . I have been skimming through the whole bowyers bible set, i also picked up a few more books written by Jim Hamm. I just havent had time to read, but i have 16 ash staves drying right now from last year. Which are just quarters of the tree i cut down. But i do understand what you are saying, and it makes sense. Now is it possible to use a green stave to make a bow, or does it have to dry? Or can i just make out of green for practice, and not expect much? In regards to performance
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #12 - Apr 27th, 2020 at 9:14pm
 
You can use green wood, it will just be much more likely to develop set.  So the draw weight may decrease as you use the bow.  You can definitely practice with it though.
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Morphy
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #13 - Apr 27th, 2020 at 9:43pm
 
vetryan15 wrote on Apr 27th, 2020 at 8:27pm:
I had read that with poplar, the limbs are gonna be wide, due to being relatively weak wood. I read on an archery forum, someone needed almost 4in limbs for poplar. I had purchased a bow building kit from 3 rivers archery. Came with the tillering stick, dvd, scrapers, rasp. I picked up a spokeshave. I own a drawknife . I have been skimming through the whole bowyers bible set, i also picked up a few more books written by Jim Hamm. I just havent had time to read, but i have 16 ash staves drying right now from last year. Which are just quarters of the tree i cut down. But i do understand what you are saying, and it makes sense. Now is it possible to use a green stave to make a bow, or does it have to dry? Or can i just make out of green for practice, and not expect much? In regards to performance



Sure you can make it green. But Poplar being such a light wood will dry very quickly especially when it’s in a near finished form. If you are worried about it breaking, I wouldn’t be.

Guess what? Your first couple Ash bows will likely break as well. Hell, your first ten might. It’s not a big deal and there’s no getting around it! Even if it doesn’t break it will be a sorry finished product compared to what you will make in years to come.  I would definitely consider a strong but elastic backing for the poplar if you want your best chances of success.

Rough out the front view profile. Round the edges of the back, sand to perfect smoothness, clean it well with hot soapy water, sand lightly to polish the raised grain, burnish it and then put on one, or maybe two layers of the fiberglass reinforced packing tape. Make sure there’s no bubbles or loose spots. Sinew or rawhide would be better but take much longer. Enough sinew will virtually guarantee success and would probably make a really cool little bow but I wouldn’t recommend doing all that work on your first couple bows.

I can’t say for sure what the bow design the other people were using that necessitated 4 inch limbs but I suspect they were trying to make a fairly hefty bow, or perhaps that’s just what their particular piece would accommodate. I would stick to no more than 40# and make it longer than you think it needs to be. 72 inches at least for a 28 inch draw. And, of course, back it well. If it breaks it’s no problem But it’s easily possible. In fact, when I’m done with school soon I’ll go to one of the hardware stores assuming their open and pick up a poplar board and see how heavy a bow I can make. Sounds like a really fun challenge.  Wink

EDIT: I like to let the tape backing sit for several days before flexing the bow so the glue in it can set a bit. Not sure if that’s necessary but it’s what I do.
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Tree identification
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2020 at 3:07pm
 
Morphy wrote on Apr 27th, 2020 at 9:43pm:
Your first couple Ash bows will likely break as well. Hell, your first ten might. It’s not a big deal and there’s no getting around it!

I don't quite agree with this.  As long as someone does their research, uses good materials, and takes their time, a good bow can be achieved from a beginner.  I do agree that it won't be as good as bows made after some experience.

I consider myself to be very much a novice bowyer.  I've made 12 bows I think.  But I've never had one break.  My recommendation would to stick with the ash staves.  Ash will be a much more forgiving bow wood.  Even if your tiller isn't exactly perfect, it should still hold up pretty well.

Poplar has very bad tensile strength, which is why the backing and wide limbs are usually recommended.  On Tim Baker's list of bow woods, poplar is in the group of non-bow woods.
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