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Natural cords material experimentation (Read 775 times)
Rat Man
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #15 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 4:20pm
 
   I have many slings made of paracord, regular nylon, polypropylene, etc...  I like synthetic slings a lot.Though synthetics will outlast slings made of natural fibers, there is something about the feel of a jute sling.  I'll always have and use them.
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Morphy
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #16 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 4:45pm
 
I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but itís rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. Iíve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose itís possible.

@Jauke - You bring up a good point and itís something Iíve thought about a lot in weapon design. Anytime a person is getting into making weapons thereís always two paths to take- Efficacy or Aesthetics. Part of the fun of designing these primitive weapons is trying to make both of those a reality in the same weapon.

Iím like you, I look at the Balearic slings and marvel at their beauty but I just canít get into them. Too bulky for me. Paracord or some natural equivalent all the way.
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JudoP
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #17 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 5:30pm
 
Personally I've not experienced any significant stretch from paracord (maybe a little bit that sneaks in during peak forces). It does seem pretty stretch free at slinging force levels though.

I've used other nylon (masons line) which was genuinely stretchy so it has the potential. I think these things come down to construction of the particular cord in many cases.

In terms of natural material thinner cords especially may experience a small degree of stretch, but usually most materials feel inelastic. Water treating or loose braiding can increase flexibility but bring a degree of stretchiness. I always aim for a moderately flexible cord which has as little stretch as possible and solid abrasion resistance with no 'springyness'. That's how I arrived at twice soaked sisal fibre as my currently preferred material.
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #18 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 6:11pm
 
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172017416/5700#5705

Here is the current progress on the abaca sling and the linen rockman. I decided not to post here and keep this as more of a discussion of the cord properties themselves.
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #19 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 6:21pm
 
Jauke wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 3:30pm:
You'd have to braid extremely tight not to get any elasticity in natural braided cords, though

elasticity is a physical property of the fiber , plant fibers generally are not elastic, animal fibers generally are , synthetic fibers can be both. I am not talking about braid tightness

Morphy wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 4:45pm:
I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but itís rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. Iíve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose itís possible.

I believe there will be, it's rated 550lbs but it gets minimum elongation 30% , 10% elongation is enough to ruin the throw. compared to linen and UHMWPE which get ~3.5% at break

we can do a static experiment where we hang from the sling 10-20 kg and measure elongation but unless the result is a† big elongation we cannot know the result in slinging. Or we can do a dynamic experiment and use two materials linen vs paracord or dyneema vs paracord on a trebuchet and compare ranges while making sure there is no change in the release angle.

I bought paracord from ebay and also had a friend bring me some from the army , at first glance there is no difference but there is clear difference in the core yarns, army's look A+ quality.
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walter
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #20 - Mar 18th, 2020 at 7:45pm
 
I like pcord. I use it on seat belt slings. I like to braid hemp, jute and yucca. None of these noticeably stretch when I am slinging. Wool does unless it is plaited over another fiber.
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #21 - Mar 19th, 2020 at 7:09am
 
Sarosh wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 6:21pm:
Jauke wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 3:30pm:
You'd have to braid extremely tight not to get any elasticity in natural braided cords, though

elasticity is a physical property of the fiber , plant fibers generally are not elastic, animal fibers generally are , synthetic fibers can be both. I am not talking about braid tightness

Morphy wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 4:45pm:
I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but itís rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. Iíve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose itís possible.

I believe there will be, it's rated 550lbs but it gets minimum elongation 30% , 10% elongation is enough to ruin the throw. compared to linen and UHMWPE which get ~3.5% at break

we can do a static experiment where we hang from the sling 10-20 kg and measure elongation but unless the result is a† big elongation we cannot know the result in slinging. Or we can do a dynamic experiment and use two materials linen vs paracord or dyneema vs paracord on a trebuchet and compare ranges while making sure there is no change in the release angle.

I bought paracord from ebay and also had a friend bring me some from the army , at first glance there is no difference but there is clear difference in the core yarns, army's look A+ quality.


Oh for sure, thereís a big difference between the cheap stuff and the really high quality paracord.
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #22 - Mar 21st, 2020 at 9:22pm
 
Manila sling is complete. Pic below.

I'm a big fan of this material so far. It's got a stiffness and feel similar to pre-soak sisal. It's fairly decent to braid with, the rope splits easily into fibres, though if you cut into longer fibres (~60cm) then these wont so easily split from bundles which can cause a bit of mess. The fibres themselves are pretty thick and very strong. I actually cut my hand trying to break one, so yeah, don't try that.

In total I used around 80% of 1m of 16mm diameter manila rope, so I got the perfect amount really... This cost about £2, so not a crazy expensive material. I've actually got 4m of 25mm rope on the way (about 10x as much material wise) for only ~£13 so (not planning to be bored during isolation!).

Sling observations:
-It is perhaps slightly rougher than sisal and I think long term use would mandate some sort of protection for the index finger (quick wrap of e-tape would do the job). It's possible that a post-braid soak will soften this up a bit.

-It's got a touch of elasticity to it, though it's not really noticeable unless you really try stretch it. It's nothing close to cotton for example. However, this might make it not particularly suited to thinner braided slings where the stretch could become more significant.

-It feels surprisingly light and quite fast to throw. This is a slightly lighter build than I've used for balearic slings in the past, though I'm sure the material is contributing most of this.

-I've tried a sample which was soaked post braiding, it seems to increase flexibility a fair amount and softens the braid a little, though it did increase the stretch factor. This sample was not dried under tension, so hopefully the increase in stretch can be avoided by using this. I will probably soak this sling partly as experiment, though its perfectly fine now if you like stiffer slings.

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walter
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #23 - Mar 21st, 2020 at 9:57pm
 
Nice! I think that sling will get more flexible through use Wink
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Rat Man
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Re: Natural cords material experimentation
Reply #24 - Mar 22nd, 2020 at 7:21pm
 
Wool, synthetic yarn, and leather lace have way too much stretch to them, though they're OK in combination with other materials.  I haven't noticed significant stretch in other materials I've used.
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