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Coronavirus (Read 8952 times)
Morphy
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #240 - Jul 5th, 2020 at 4:55pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Jul 5th, 2020 at 12:51pm:
     Maybe all this quarentining has given me too much time to think.  I'm not one to panic or despair but I am a bottom line person. 
     Covid doesn't give a rat's ass about your job, indoor restaurant dining, your favorite team's season, going to the beach, how bored you are, your grandmother, your favorite bar, the Rock concert you had to give up on, the economy, or whether or not you think it's a hoax. 
    Covid does just one thing and it does it well.  It gets in our lungs and replicates. We have no vaccine to stop it.  If we catch it we don't become immune like with other viruses.  We can get it again and again and each time it's worse.  We have never seen anything like this and currently WE HAVE NO SOLUTION WHATSOEVER.
     There are many fools among us. There always have been. That's just the way it is.  Panic and despair are useless but we are in deep shit and had better take this seriously.  Right now our only hope is to stay calm and make intelligent informed individual (not what the government tells us) decisions.... and be prepared for the long haul. 


I would be less worried about this first wave and more about the next one that comes.

Cheery thought I know. Hey I’m always here for you man!  Grin
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #241 - Jul 5th, 2020 at 7:56pm
 
I am more sanguine about the whole thing than I was. But I'm a fairly decent shape 30 something. It's not that the younger set are bullet proof but this seems to really have it in for the older folks. Hospitalization and mortality data say we are not all equally at risk. We're not going to visit grandparents or even going to church because of the risk we might pose to the older set. But we're going to the park again. Letting the girls go to the grocery store again. I think this looks really different if you're over or under 45.

A couple years back I did a lot of research into the prepping world. The pandemic preppers are their own breed and looking at their preparations really dampened my enthusiasm for the subject. There's really not much you can do for a bad pandemic. Unlike other disasters there are fewer meaningful things you can do. It's just not feasible to prepare for all the iterations and the cost to try would be higher than I'm willing to pay. Luckily the kung-flu has been mainly a dry run showing how it can run riot but is not itself a destroyer of civilizations.

I think the most important thing walking away from this is "what part of my general preparedness was found wanting? What steps am I taking to address this?"
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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IronGoober
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #242 - Jul 5th, 2020 at 10:34pm
 
The whole point of quarantining and mask wearing was to stop transmission of the virus. This is possible if everyone complied and there was enough contact tracing and quarantining until the virus was purged from infected persons' systems. Look at Asia, New Zealand. It is possible. The U.S. as a whole, chose to ignore how to fight a pandemic and stop transmission of the virus for the perceived sake of people's personal freedom.

Masks are also a very viable way of reducing transmission. If they didn't work, every single hospital worker would become infected. Go find the rates of transmission to hospital workers, who have to wear a ton of PPE. It is WAY lower than the general population. PPE works, and masks are a major part of it.

Wear a mask when you are around anyone that you aren't living with. Period.  Stop being a whiny jackass about wearing a mask. It protects people around you.

You are not protecting yourself, you are protecting others that you could unknowingly infect by either being asymptomatic (have it but won't show symptoms) or pre-symptomatic (have it and will eventually show symptoms). That person could may be fine if they get it, but the chain of infection could kill someone who is more vulnerable. THAT is the logic. Protect OTHERS by wearing a mask. If everyone took this mindset, this pandemic wouldn't be nearly the problem it is.

On the topic of critical cases in a hospital, I have several horror stories from doctors and nurses that I know. One was that there were so many critical cases coming in that there were times when helicopters would be hovering around their hospital waiting for a bed to open up. When one would (i.e. a death), they would land and then take off to pick up the next case.  Of course this isn't the norm, but the person was questioning how anyone cannot see pandemic as a major crisis, or question its reality. 

Reopening isn't making the outbreak worse? How are you coming to that conclusion. Coronavirus cases didn't start really climbing UNTIL places started to reopen. California, case and point. People coming into contact with others without any protection for extended periods (i.e. bars, restaurants, gyms, etc.) are the main source of transmission. It wasn't happening when people stayed home.  Of course RM is correct, reopening has to occur eventually, but if everyone was proactive against not transmitting it to others (and stopped just thinking about themselves and what contraction would mean to them without thinking about what it means to others) the virus could be stopped enough that things could reopened safely. (this is my opinion, but based on the PPE evidence that is out there).
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Morphy
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #243 - Jul 6th, 2020 at 5:55am
 
Wearing a mask is such a simple thing. To be honest even before Covid half the time I was happy wearing a mask at work because you simply don’t know what a person has. Ever been face to face with a super active TB patient? That is scary and gross and will make you paranoid even with a fitted N95  and face shield.

The other half of the time wearing a mask is a pain. The issue with this virus, and you can read this directly from Dr. Fauci, is how varied this virus can be. It’s really weird in that sense.

I still contend any crisis we have is going to be used for political gain and this is no different but a mask isn’t a hill worth dying on for me.
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #244 - Jul 6th, 2020 at 8:22am
 
I've seen more jackassery about you HAVE TO WEAR MASKS than I have about I WILL NEVER WEAR A MASK. And the debate itself shifts and shifts. Are we talking about face coverings? Specific grades of masks? Asymptomatic carriers? Herd behavior when masks are required? Wearing a mask when you have symptoms? I honestly don't think it's about any of those things. It's become just a manifestation of the left/right divide in the country. Your team has a side, go scream on the internet about it.

It's been interesting watching the language shift about this thing. We've shifted from "Corona Virus Deaths" to "Died from" vs "Died with" and I saw most recently in a BBC article they were using "unexpected deaths" to try to capture the effects of our changes and normal rate of death but also things like suicide. Regardless, my observations of the herd is that they're done. They've panicked. They've done as much prepping as they will. They're getting back to normal.  No amount of noise will change that, we'd have to see a difference in mortality data to change the herd's behavior.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #245 - Jul 6th, 2020 at 3:19pm
 
    I'm pretty sure that change in the mortality data is coming. As the young and strong start catching this multiple times I think then the herd will see the danger.  People are becoming bored, restless, fed up... whatever.  They will do their best to go back to life as it was.  Bottom line: at least for now life as it was is gone.
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Kick
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #246 - Jul 6th, 2020 at 6:24pm
 
Don't worry everyone, President Kanye West will come and save us all!
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Mersa
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #247 - Jul 8th, 2020 at 7:32am
 
As long as he likes fish sticks
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Razor glandes, Aim for the eyes!!!
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #248 - Jul 11th, 2020 at 11:16pm
 
     One of my bowling leagues is attempting to start up again tomorrow.  I love bowling and miss it and my friends much.  But I won't be participating.  We are in a hot spot here in the Northeast and we're having a second wave of the virus.  Part of surviving during such times is being mentally tough.  I am fat, old, and have asthma.  I don't like bowling enough to die for it.
     One thing the dogs and I really miss is our off leash dog park, Timber Creek Park.  Every day I walk one the dogs individually around the neighborhood because this pack still won't group walk for me so they each get walked twice a week.  And they have two long playtimes in their own yard each day but they're not getting enough exercise.  Running free like maniacs with other dogs in the park for a few hours really drains their batteries, in a good way.  I have considered going to the park but wearing a mask the whole time.  But I'd still be socializing with a large group of strangers.  Though I feel terrible about depriving them of what they love the most, Timber Creek Park will have to wait until this crap is under control.  As unfortunate as their lack of adequate exercise is, their situation would be much worse if I died. 
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« Last Edit: Jul 15th, 2020 at 4:18pm by Rat Man »  
 
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Kick
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #249 - Jul 12th, 2020 at 3:45am
 
Things are opening up here a lot. We're now allowing visitors into the old folks home I work at which is... a little scary. What's crazy is that we've had 6 people die so far this year NONE of them COVID related. A lot of them were tested beforehand so we now they were negative. There's only been one case in our facility and it was on another ward so we've really avoided it which is what is now scary to me. Just waiting for that second wave. Finland has only had 329 deaths and only has 6 people in hospital right now, but still the fear is there. The fact it's still a massive problem elsewhere means that sitting back and relaxing because things in Finland are going ok is still a mistake in my eyes. We're far from out of thethe woods yet if for no other reason than I can't visit my family in England and they can't visit me because Boris has so thoroughly botched, well, just about everything.

Here is the information for Finland in English for those interested:
https://thl.fi/en/web/infectious-diseases-and-vaccinations/what-s-new/coronaviru
s-covid-19-latest-updates/situation-update-on-coronavirus

Lots of good info and charts and such. Near the bottom it has a graph for the nunber of cases for the Nordoc countries and Estonia and it's pretty shocking to see it so clearly but Sweden's lack of action is plain as day (another reason Finland shouldn't get to relaxed, just look over that thin thin border).
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Morphy
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #250 - Jul 21st, 2020 at 5:52pm
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdc-says-covid-19-cases-u-s-may-be-10...

You would never know that this article is almost a month old by listening to the news today. All fear, all the time. So if 10 times as many people have it than what was thought and the death rate remains the same that would mean it’s at best as deadly as the flu. I’ve talked to multiple medical professionals about this and so far they agree the media has been hyping this far beyond what is actually being seen. From one ER RN who put it quite plainly- “The death rate we’ve seen is no different than what we see every year from the flu.” This is from working in a Covid center here south of Houston where many covid patients are being funneled to.

Here’s another interesting one. You can find a number of experts attempting to speak up on this but they keep getting buried beneath Google’s almighty algorithm.

https://youtu.be/IP2UYpzLof0


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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #251 - Jul 22nd, 2020 at 12:28pm
 
    Do you honestly believe the United States would shut down its economy, especially under this administration, for something no worse than the flu?  Treat this lightly if you wish.  You only get one chance to do the plague right. 
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Morphy
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #252 - Jul 22nd, 2020 at 12:55pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Jul 22nd, 2020 at 12:28pm:
    Do you honestly believe the United States would shut down its economy, especially under this administration, for something no worse than the flu?  Treat this lightly if you wish.  You only get one chance to do the plague right. 



This is an important point. This article is quoting directly from the CDC. No need to question me, question the CDC.

By the way I’ve never treated this lightly. Every patient I deal with that is likely covid positive I wear a full head to toe Tyvek suit, N95, face shield, eye wear and gloves. In the Texas summer no less. I dare say you could hardly take it more seriously than I already do and not live in a bubble. Everything I’ve said has been based on personal experience with covid patients, experts who have their own experience and scientific studies.

I guess my question here is why respond like that when it’s the CDC making this claim? This is quite a large study that backs up precisely a previous study. Shouldn’t we be happy to hear this news? Shouldn’t we gladly adjust our outlook to correlate with the greater scientific evidence we have available?  Honest question here. I don’t understand that mindset nor that response at all.

In answer to your question - Yes, if they believed it was more serious than it actually was. Which based on our most recent data is exactly what happened. Go back to articles and quotes given by officials when this first took off and you will find the models are far worse than what we are seeing.
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“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #253 - Jul 23rd, 2020 at 2:25am
 
    I trust NO information coming out of tRump's CDC.  My attic renter Mike works as an IT guy at Lady or Lourdes Hospital.  I get good info from him.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/trumps-cdc-director-has-a-history-o...
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Morphy
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Re: Coronavirus
Reply #254 - Jul 23rd, 2020 at 5:13am
 
Fair enough....A previous study from May preformed by researchers from the University of Sourthern California and the L.A. Department of Public Health (two organizations that are surely as far politically from Trump as anyone could hope) showed the same thing.

From the Journal of American Medical Association

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766367

An excerpt from the posted study:

The estimate implies that approximately 367 000 adults had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies, which is substantially greater than the 8430 cumulative number of confirmed infections in the county on April 10.3 Therefore, fatality rates based on confirmed cases may be higher than rates based on number of infections.

367000 infections vs the 8430 infections originally thought. That’s far more than 10 times greater so if anything the CDC study is grossly understating the situation, at least for those people in California.

The whole purpose of the scientific method is to make information gathering as objective as possible. So far different studies from opposing political spheres are lining up exactly with each other. If there is an objection let it be with the methodology of the study, specifically.

Just to reiterate, I’ve never said anything about not wearing masks or disregarding official precautions. I’m all for it. I am also quite worried about the pandemic, just not this current iteration of it. The next mutation may actually be the pandemic that this was suspected of being early on and that IS something to worry about.

That being said at least for now this is far less lethal than we were told early on which is a good thing.


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« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2020 at 7:45am by Morphy »  

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
 
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