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Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ (Read 547 times)
Mersa
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Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Jan 17th, 2020 at 2:24am
 
I recently reached out to Joel Turner from ShotIQ.
Joel is a leading authority in target panic and the mechanisms at work. Some archers on the forum may have heard of him before. I asked Joel if he could give some insight into exactly how target panic applies to slinging. He got back to me today with a short message and seems interested in giving slinging a go himself. His website is www.shotiq.com

Here is his reply:
"Mitch,
Sorry for the delay.  Your weapon system requires only open loop control systems.  There is nothing closed loop about the movements required for that action.  A closed loop movement is a movement that is performed slow enough you can stop it anywhere within the movement based on the feedback you gain while moving.  Throwing requires open loop movements that become automatic through repetition

If you put conscious thought into your throw, it will screw up the totality of the movement, your conscious thought needs to be in target focus.  Your subconscious is running the throw movement,,,,,completely opposite from shooting a bow where you let your subconscious do the aiming and the conscious mind is used for the shot activation movement"
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #1 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 4:44am
 
Sounds really interesting. Hope he can do a deeper research about slinging.
I totally agree with the statement about putting "conscious thought into your throw", when you think, it never works.
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #2 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 8:05am
 
yep he stated the bleeding obvious Smiley

Not sure how you can learn from something you already know though ?
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #3 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 12:55pm
 
Mersa wrote on Jan 17th, 2020 at 2:24am:
completely opposite from shooting a bow where you let your subconscious do the aiming and the conscious mind is used for the shot activation movement

I think this can change depending on the style of shooting you're doing.  The are methods to practice bow shooting where you repeat the shooting movement over and over and over, so your body is trained to automatically do it the same way every time.  Then when you're shooting at a target, your focus is on the target, your body takes care of the actual shot.  At least that's how I think about it.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #4 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 2:19pm
 
I’m not an expert, but he sounds a little too confident in his answer for someone who doesn’t do a lot of slinging. You can “feel” when a throw is good or bad, and you can interrupt the process up to a point. Subconscious movements start as conscious ones and shift to subconscious through repetition.

It’s also possible to throw, make a conscious correction to your form, then throw again. It doesn’t have to all get fixed at the subconscious level. Otherwise Jaegoor’s coaching wouldn’t work, and we all know that he can teach people how to sling faster than they would learn only by repetition. 
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Mersa
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #5 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 6:28pm
 
I take Joel's advice seriously and although it is what I expected (as CA stated) it's good to have confirmation on the mechanisms at work, he is truely regarded as a world leader in target panic. He works with multiple weapon systems and helps work on the mind not so much the technique or mechanics of the shot.
I will likely forward our conversation to him so he can respond to any misinterpretations or questions we have.
In regards to archery you can defiantly use both closed and open loop systems, open loop would be a more or less aimed shot where you hold anchor ant a stationary target, and a closed loop would be more instinctual and usually on a surprise or moving target with a more "snap shooting" technique.

Perhaps these mechanics are what's happening to Jaegoor at competition (CA once stated he knows he could get a perfect score but is yet to do so)
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #6 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 7:05pm
 
Ich habe in meinen leben sehr erfolgreich bogensport betrieben. Ich war auch viele Jahre Trainer. Ich kenne die Problematik. Und es gibt diese definitiv auch bei der sling. Es gibt einiges was man tun kann. Das wichtigste. Man muß mögen was man tut. Ich hasse es zum Beispiel Tennisbälle zu schießen. Die Diane als Ziel, ein gutes Ziel für diesen Sport. Aber wirklich mögen kann ich es nicht.
Es gibt auch bei der sling einen Anker. Eine feste Position vor dem lösen.
Sie können Ängste nicht verringern. Nur die Wirkung der Angst können Sie verringern. Nicht die Angst selbst.
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Mersa
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #7 - Jan 24th, 2020 at 6:26pm
 
There is defiantly something to it. last time i slung i had a friend with me and could not hit my target for the life of me, as soon as he left i was consistently hitting it
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2020 at 3:47am
 
I had the opposite once. It was very strange. He came along while I did some slinging and I was hitting every other shot. I had to explain it was a fluke and I'm never usually that good Cheesy
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2020 at 9:53am
 
Seems we ought to train ourselves to be more sociable lol! Grin

"Oh no, someones here... There goes my accuracy!"

Perhaps group slinger training might be the way to go if you are training for something like a competition. If you could get somewhat used to groups/crowds... you might be able to see a large improvement.
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #10 - Jan 25th, 2020 at 1:24pm
 
Now I just have to find a group or crowd...
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Mersa
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #11 - Jan 25th, 2020 at 6:21pm
 
I’m ok at distance with a crowd, accuracy I feel I’m best alone or with a few bystanders out of harms way, my nerves come from people standing within the danger zone. Even though I throw forwards every throw these days I still get a little fear about a mishap.
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #12 - Jan 25th, 2020 at 8:39pm
 
Yeah, Distance slinging I can do just fine with people near me. I am very confident in my distance slinging.

Target slinging. I am ashamed to say that I've never actually done that. At least, targets other than bushes or dead trees.

Which is why I probably haven't noticed any differences in my own slinging when I have people filming/watching me.
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #13 - Jan 26th, 2020 at 5:03am
 
Etwas was die Genauigkeit beeinflusst ist das Essen.
Ich treffe hungrig viel besser. 😁
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Re: Target panic, a few words from Joel turner of ShotIQ
Reply #14 - Jan 26th, 2020 at 6:10am
 
Less mind, more flow.
I think?
Pretty neat thread topic I'll be following this one!
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