Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Politics in vaping (Read 285 times)
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4854
Politics in vaping
Sep 18th, 2019 at 12:08pm
 
Serious question here.

Is the government currently in the process of slowly chipping away at people's ability to vape because it's digging into tobacco sales tax or are they inflating a problem with vaping in such a way as to ban or extort the industry?

I'm not disputing that a very small minority of people have had lung issues with bad batches of vape juice, but all of the sudden we are seeing the media really push this issue and that usually makes me suspicious that we are being manipulated. There is always a reason given why what they are doing is actually in our best interest. But I guess I'm just too cynical to buy it these days.

I've known many people who were only able to quit smoking due to vaping. Their health is so much better now. While I don't smoke I find this very discouraging for them and for liberty in general.

What do you think?
Back to top
 

"The problem with democracy is no matter who you vote for the government still gets in."
 
IP Logged
 
Kick
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 2105
Finland
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 12:34pm
 
I don't think it's actually that big of a conspiracy. It's just a cause a politician can latch onto. It's got all the classic features of scaremongering: new technology, health related, "think of the children!". It's the same as all the arguments against social media which is also something politicians are stepping forward and attaching their campaigns to. I don't smoke or vape (I'm a nurse and take the view the only thing anyone SHOULD be breathing is clean air, but also understand people can do what they want) so it wouldn't affect me if vaping gets banned, but I also don't think it's necessarily helpful to just ban it. The politicians don't actually care either I'm sure. It's just something to get people to rally behind.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Rat Man
Slinging.org Moderator
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 11579
New Jersey, USA
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 1:36pm
 
    You're not being cynical, Morphy.  Our government is totally corrupt at this point.  No doubt the tobacco lobby is pulling these strings.  If they were really so concerned, more people have died recently in ICE custody than from vaping.  JS
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
joe_meadmaker
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 379
PA, USA
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 2:21pm
 
There definitely does seem to be a lot of reported health issues due to vaping in a short period of time.  I suppose we'll see if that continues or not.  I was never really sold on vaping as a "healthy" alternative.  I've seen friends blow out a giant cloud that smells exactly like strawberry shortcake, or waffles and maple syrup, etc.  I'd always tell them, "It may not be smoke, but don't try to tell me that's good for you."  Although I agree that any regulations should wait until research can show what the risks are.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
perpetualstudent
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 1161
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 3:03pm
 
I'm not a vaper. I don't care to use them. I certainly wouldn't want my children to use it. I do buy that it's probably better for you than smoking a cigarette, not because it's healthy but because the tar and byproducts of a cigarette are so much worse.

I remember when vaping first started being a thing, I still lived in NYC where the tobacco taxes are huge. The city very quickly legislated that they were cigarettes so that they could keep the tax. Nobody has accused NYC of clearing out their corruption. That I absolutely blame on corrupt politicians.

The current push? I think it's more opportunistic. Scary and you can deliver "action". Unfortunately the Public Health school has hitched its wagon to the "Vaping is BAD. Don't Vape instead of smoke!" I don't think it's because there is good evidence but rather because the stigmatization of smoking was their big "win". And if the social stigma goes away, so does the proof of their power. So they have to fight against this regardless of logic or science.

So I guess I'm half and half. Sure there's corruption sometimes. Also humans suck often.  Grin
Back to top
 

"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 12221
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 4:50pm
 
the industry needs to establish some sort of regulations.
At the moment they can pretty much put anything they like into the liquids.

I guess it's a bit like where you buy your 'illegal' drugs from
Some dealers will cut that stuff with draino, others will just use powdered sugar.

On a legal narcotic/toxin like nicotine - there has to be proper regulations in place to make sure that whatever they mix with the glycerin/nicotine base - isn't going to kill you.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
NooneOfConsequence
Funditor
****
Offline



Posts: 983
Texas
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 10:06pm
 
It’s a perfect storm politically:
-tobacco is “evil”
-children vape!  We must save the children!!!
-Once a vape pen exploded and killed someone in a one-in-a-million freak accident!  Vaping is deadly!

Everything screams “do something” and politically, “do something now” trumps good governance or actually doing something that will effectively balance personal freedoms with corporate responsibility.

One of the most overlooked societal benefits of vaping is that there are now thousands more young people on the planet who have a practical understanding of Ohm’s law. What’s more, they learned this sciencey math stuff voluntarily while trying to do something rebellious  Shocked
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4854
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 11:32pm
 
Definitely some serious lobbying going on. I'm sure no one believes this multi-billion dollar lobby is sitting back in Washington and placidly accepting the loss of so much revenue. "Oh hum there goes another billion to vaping, oh well." Not likely.

What really bothers me though is how interconnected all these multinational coorporations are. I've heard it said the vast majority of the world's media is controlled by 5 coorporations.

That makes it really difficult to believe a lot of what you hear on the media whether it's them trying to save you from the evil vape Boogeyman or whatever it may be next.

I'm sure most have seen this video, but it beautifully explains where we are at as a country/world.

https://youtu.be/8XhbnyXRuFw
Back to top
 

"The problem with democracy is no matter who you vote for the government still gets in."
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4854
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2019 at 11:43pm
 
...
Back to top
 

"The problem with democracy is no matter who you vote for the government still gets in."
 
IP Logged
 
vetryan15
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 990
Northern Mainers
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #9 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 6:24am
 
I think it is the government trying to over reach as usual, but it doesnt suprise me anymore. I use a vape. I am a former smoker. I used to smoke 2 minimum up to 3 full packs a day. It definitely saves money, but i had tried to quit multiple times and so far this has been the best way. My biggest concern is the children that vape, but have never picked up a cigarette at all. I work with a bunch of kids at a local. Grocery store 'coworkers' they vape, but never touched a cigarette.  I find that to be the problem because those are the people giving it a bad name, NOT the former smokers who ACTUALLY need to use it to quit smoking. Most of these deaths and sicknesses in the media,  are from people who only vape. Not former smokers who switched over. Imo
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jauke
Funditor
****
Offline



Posts: 905
The Netherlands
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #10 - Sep 19th, 2019 at 11:44am
 
I used to read a lot about evil and corruption in the higher levels of society but after going too deep into that rabbit hole I said nope Im out. It is dangerous territory to research, dangerous for your mental health. Luckily as you stop researching it you eventually forget things, now I just put my faith and hope on christ and not man, I am no longer depressed.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
perpetualstudent
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 1161
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #11 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 3:25pm
 
it's established but not headlined, that these deaths/sicknesses were from vaping THC oil (which is illegal). Not even the THC oil, but the shady sources cut it with vitamin E oil and that is what wound up damaging the lungs so quickly.

I'm sure your lungs thank you for switching from cigarettes to vape.
Back to top
 

"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4854
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #12 - Sep 20th, 2019 at 4:44pm
 
Two ladies in my class work in the same major hospital here in Houston. They recently had a teenager come in with the same symptoms being discussed. It is, to the best of my understanding, a bad batch of oil as you said PS.

At first the kid didn't want to admit he had been vaping it. He admitted to smoking it though. The symptoms seemed pretty clear though and after more inquiries, x rays etc, he admitted he had been vaping it. The doctor who had presumably seen this before mentioned the kid would most likely end up intubated within a few days, which he was. It's like a very slow crawling acute respiratory failure. One you can predict is coming a mile away.

We had it much easier as kids, no fancy vape oil just a homemade water bong and a whole bunch of Cheetos.
Back to top
 

"The problem with democracy is no matter who you vote for the government still gets in."
 
IP Logged
 
perpetualstudent
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 1161
Gender: male
Re: Politics in vaping
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2019 at 9:05am
 
vaping has been around for long enough that we should have a much much higher body count if it was standard vaping that was the cause. Might we find large sicknesses in another 30-40 years? Sure. That's the true part of "we don't know the long term effects yet". But if the kind of deaths that are news now were associated with normal vaping it should have happened 7 years ago.
Back to top
 

"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Masiakasaurus, Curious Aardvark, Bill Skinner, Chris, Rat Man, Mauro Fiorentini, David Morningstar) - (Moderator Group: Forum Moderator)