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Shooting (Read 1585 times)
woodssj
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Re: Shooting
Reply #45 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 11:33am
 
Yeah, but he's about as electable as an actual red herring, so I don't see him as a viable threat.

A great rhetorical foil for his opposition and a godsend to propagandists, most certainly. A viable candidate for much of anything, I think not.

The best of political plans laid out to solve problems and save lives while respecting dangerous hobbies don't work if everyone constantly jumps to the extremes of the argument, relying on outliers, anecdotes, fringe positions, and the Slippery Slope Fallacy from both damn sides. Since that's principally what I see happening in the US on pretty much every issue, I'm just going to assume that we won't have meaningful change in my lifetime.

Plus, since there's no reliable data on the issue in the first place for the US and gun issues, where the hell would you start a well-thought-out policy to begin with? There's no uniform reporting requirements, statistics gathering, or other significant research to back either side because funding for it has been banned for 2 decades and more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment
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Morphy
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Re: Shooting
Reply #46 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 1:04pm
 
Beto is not wildly left of center of the current Democrat party so it doesn't really matter if it's him or someone else.

Slippery slope is often referenced but it's pretty clear historically speaking it's been one regulation after another. There is no good or logical reason for anyone to assume that trend is not going to continue.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #47 - Sep 26th, 2019 at 6:47pm
 
But you have to look at why the CDC got banned from research. And technically it's banned from advocating for gun control not research per se. If you dig into why that became the status quo you find that it's that they were already publishing a goal to decrease handgun ownership in the US, before actually doing any research. Politics, not study. The bellesiles debacle likewise shows that detached objective research is an elusive goal. Most people are bringing an ideological axe to grind.

The thing is that the gun rights may be paranoid of gun control, but significant portions of the gun control advocates and organizations really are out to destroy gun rights entirely. Whether its fienstein or beto or going back to debates 50 years ago with handgun inc (renamed to Brady campaign because Americans weren't signing on for banning handguns) and even in more academic arguments taking a look at "Debating Gun Control: How much regulation do we need?"  By Degrazia and Hunt, the gun control side outlines an argument for the utter destruction of gun rights. So it's not irrational. Might be unproductive, but it's not irrational.

The two cores of this issue are not irrational. But they are diametrically opposed on a number of philosophical issues. Any research is a cudgel because data can't answer a philosophical issue.

Slightly related: I do highly recommend "All the way down the slippery slope: gun prohibition in england" by Kopel. It's a meticulously sourced history showing what "reasonable compromise" led to.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Shooting
Reply #48 - Sep 27th, 2019 at 12:13am
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #49 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 2:15pm
 
   I want an AR-15 but I don't think anyone else should be allowed to have one.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Shooting
Reply #50 - Oct 1st, 2019 at 11:15pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Oct 1st, 2019 at 2:15pm:
† †I want an AR-15 but I don't think anyone else should be allowed to have one.


I think that is the most honest pro gun control argument Iíve ever heard!
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