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Shooting (Read 427 times)
Morphy
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Re: Shooting
Reply #15 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:59pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 8:19pm:
@Morphy: it took me a second to realize that you were agreeing with me Smiley


Oh I agree completely. But if I didn't word vomit all over the screen and still leave you wondering it wouldn't be like me now would it?  Cheesy
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"The problem with democracy is no matter who you vote for the government still gets in."
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #16 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 3:05pm
 
    Gun control means  different things to different people.  There's a phobia on the far Right that Big Brother is going to come to their house and take their guns away.  And there are some factions on the far Left that would like to see that occur. I don't see that happening in the near future. 
    To me as a middle of the roader and a lifelong gun owner gun control means making it illegal for the mentally ill and convicted criminals to purchase or own firearms.  As I said, there is no perfect solution. Some criminals and nuts will still be able to get guns.  And there are many ways to kill many people without guns.  But right now under the current law in many (most?) states any nut bag can just walk in  and legally buy an AR 15. There is no logical argument that can make sense of this. It's just plain wrong.  Whatever the solution, we can't be having a mass shooting every other week.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #17 - Sep 4th, 2019 at 7:03pm
 
If you've ever been involuntarily committed (ie a medical professional has said you're a danger to yourself or others), you are already banned from owning a firearm in all 50 states.

[edit: forgot to include]
If you've ever been convicted of any felony doesn't matter if it was violent or nonviolent (including plea bargains where you plead guilty to something that could have been a year in prison but served only probation) you are likewise prohibited from owning any firearm.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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AlexZaamii
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Re: Shooting
Reply #18 - Sep 9th, 2019 at 12:42pm
 
perpetualstudent wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:36pm:
@Judo
Depends what you see a political break-up or civil war as constituting. You're quite right that a shotgun vs a tank isn't a contest. But the US hasn't done so well very recently in Afghanistan. Iraq it was more explosives but Afghanistan rifles were a very large factor. And civil wars imply that there is not a monopoly on the armed forces and in such a situation I would certainly prefer to have a firearm to not having one. We've been preaching the "end of the rifleman" for a long time, hasn't happened yet.


On top of that, proper militaries can be defeated or slowed down by a lot of people armed with simple firearms. Off the top of my head, the resistance in Yugoslavia in WW2 managed to take back the entire country by the end of the war and in Poland there was a failed uprising in Warsaw in 1944, but it took a while for it to be defeated. When Japan invaded China the Chinese most of the time didn't have much more than rifles. Like you pointed out, as many tanks and airplanes you have, you still need boots on the ground.
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2019 at 4:28pm
 
perpetualstudent wrote on Sep 4th, 2019 at 7:03pm:
If you've ever been involuntarily committed (ie a medical professional has said you're a danger to yourself or others), you are already banned from owning a firearm in all 50 states.

[edit: forgot to include]
If you've ever been convicted of any felony doesn't matter if it was violent or nonviolent (including plea bargains where you plead guilty to something that could have been a year in prison but served only probation) you are likewise prohibited from owning any firearm.


Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks. ... Some states' requirements are limited only to handgun purchases.

https://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-c...

   
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #20 - Sep 15th, 2019 at 10:34pm
 
While private sellers do not have the capability to run background checks, if you as a private seller sell it to a prohibited possessor that is itself a felony. It's a risky thing and most gun owners don't.

This is actually a place where I'd be willing to meet in the middle. Background checks mandatory but no charge for running them. Turn it into a sin tax (I'm looking at you CA) and we part ways.

I doubt it would have much effect. It's drummed up as a big deal, but the consequences for selling to a prohibited possessor are already high enough that there's not a whole heck of a lot of it.  But "gunshow loophole" has a lovely scary ring to it.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #21 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 12:17pm
 
perpetualstudent wrote on Sep 15th, 2019 at 10:34pm:
While private sellers do not have the capability to run background checks, if you as a private seller sell it to a prohibited possessor that is itself a felony. It's a risky thing and most gun owners don't.


So if the seller doesn't do background checks how is he supposed to know if he's selling to a prohibited possessor?  This discussion seems to be leaving the realm of logic.
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #22 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 12:26pm
 
    I started this as a thread about shooting mechanics.  Somehow it's morphed into a discussion on gun control, which is fine.  Many of our threads take off in their own direction.
    As I've mentioned many times, I've had guns since I was a child.  In my state of New Jersey there have always been background checks, throughout my entire life. There is no gun show loophole here.  The purpose of this process is to make it illegal for criminals and mentally ill  people to purchase firearms.  It's not perfect but at least it's something.  There is no sensible argument  against such precautions. Period.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #23 - Sep 16th, 2019 at 7:51pm
 
law often leaves common sense logic behind. In any of its realms. Fact remains if you were to sell one of your firearms to somebody who was a prohibited possessor that's your crime.

As I mentioned, that is common ground provided it doesn't morph into what it has in CA. Where it effectively becomes 100 dollar sin tax to buy a firearm. If the goal is simply to make sure all sales are legal, then there is no problem for the Feds providing that background check free of charge.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #24 - Yesterday at 9:24pm
 
There was a charge for my background check here in Jersey.  I don't recall exactly what it was but it was reasonable.
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