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Shooting (Read 1599 times)
Rat Man
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Shooting
Sep 1st, 2019 at 2:43pm
 
† † I got my first gun when I was twelve.† A Remington .22 that I still have.† I started hunting legally when I was about seventeen with a 12 gauge shotgun. When I joined the army at nineteen I was a pretty good but not great shot.†
† † One thing the military does is teach you how to shoot.† I am aware that Marines get more hands on target practice training so generally they are better shots.† That doesn't mean that soldiers can't shoot.† No one graduates Basic without being at least a marksman.
† †† What the army taught me about shooting boils down to three basic things.† First is attaining the most stable shooting position possible.† Most of the time that's laying prone on the ground.† Sometimes you can't see your target if you're laying down.† If you have to stand it's best to find something, usually a tree, to support and steady yourself with.† When that isn't possible there's a standing,† unsupported position but this is your least desirable option.
† † Next, and this is extremely important, is breathing.† Prior to the army I paid no attention to how I breathed when I shot.† With all the practice in the world I only could have been so good without utilizing proper breathing.† It's very simple.† Before you shoot expel the air in your lungs.† Then aim and shoot. Don't inhale until after the shot.† Your normal breathing will make the end of your barrel rise and fall.† Even the smallest fraction of an inch can make a huge difference four hundred yards downfield.† Breathing is VERY important.
† †† Finally, whenever possible, don't jerk the trigger.† Slowly squeeze it so that it's a bit of a surprise when your rifle goes off.† This is much more important when you're shooting a pistol.† If you jerk the trigger your wrist will rise and the barrel will lower when† you shoot causing you to undershoot your target.†
† †† Of course the military makes you practice these things until they're second nature but that's basically what they teach you.† Simple and it works.† †
† † Incidentally, I haven't hunted in probably forty years.† I'm not morally opposed to properly regulated, legal hunting and I could hunt again if there was an absolute need.† For me killing animals quickly lost all of it's charm.† I don't like to kill anything that I don't have to.† I even feel guilty killing bugs or weeds.†
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Morphy
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Re: Shooting
Reply #1 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 10:44pm
 
Shooting of all kinds is a wonderful past time. There's something about projectile weapons of all kinds that's almost part of a humans DNA.

The only guns I've owned so far are a Ruger 10/22 and a Weatherby Vanguard .223. Both fun but I need to get some pistols as well. Especially now that I have a 10 year old daughter. She needs a big mean German Shepherd and a tazer. A pistol when she gets old enough. 😃 That's the game plan anyways. Too many weirdos these days.
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walter
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Re: Shooting
Reply #2 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 11:26pm
 
Trained by a hunter/ trapper (my dad). Advanced training at Ft. Dix in the NJ pine barrens. Still have a 12 gauge, Remmington .22 (nylon 66) and a .357 Ruger revolver, which I have carried concealed for over 30 years now.
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Perseverence furthers
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Shooting
Reply #3 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 7:15am
 
Got nothing against hunting for meat and everything against hunting for 'trophies'.

Guns are fine and a useful tool. Which is the general british attitude to them and the main reaosn most brits don't own a gun or want to own a gun.

Contrary to popular belief there are very few barriers to owning a gun in the uk. You have to have No criminal convictions and not been sectioned under the mental health act.
You need to show a use for the weapon. This can be as basic as: 'I've joined a gun club and want to shoot at targets'.

If you intedn to hunt with a firearm you need to show that you have a landowners permission to shoot on their land and that the land is sufficiently large that you won't endanger anyone not on the land.

Most small animal hunting: rats, rabbits, pigeons - is done airguns. Which generally don't need to be licensed.
The uk is one of the largest markets for High end air weapons in the world.† †

You can legally own almost any weapon, with the exception of full auto and non-antique pistols. So called 'antique' weapons are currently fully Unlicensed. Weird but true. A blackpowder gun will kill you just as dead as a modern weapon.noidea

You can also buy weapons in the uk that are illegal in many us states. Moderated or silenced weapons are fully legal.
My dad used to have a fully moderated shotgun, which would have been illegal in much of the us.

So the whole uk versus us gun issue - is purely down to attitude.
We think of them as tools that most people don't need. Most americans seem to think of them as an essential appendage, without which you are not a whole person.

I've used and fired a variety of weapons over the years. I'm good with all projectile weapons, always have been.
But to me It's just another skill - not overly useful and not something I do very often. I do own the best .22 spring air rifle that's ever been made: weirauch 97k. After 20 years it's still factory spec power.
Heavy as crap lol But a great rifle.

I don't personally hunt, just not my thing. Nothing against people who do - as long as it's for meat.†

IN a long term, end of the world scenario. A crossbow would be much more use than a firearm. As all it's parts could be replaced and bolts can be bodged up from a huge variety of items.
A catapult or slingshot would be more use for hunting than a sling, as food - over here anyway -would be mostly small animals, and a stored energy weapon that you can aim - is a lot more practical than a sling for any short range hunt Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One †- works for me Smiley
 
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 4:59pm
 
it's not that it's "an essential appendage" it's more "there are situations where not having one could be fatal". So it's not "If I don't have it I'm not a man" it's "there are situations where not having that tool could mean I fail in my duty as a human".

The British attitude (and the gun control side here in the states as well) hinges on that "most people don't need it" and then adds obstacle on obstacle, and it's no big deal because you don't need it. While the more American attitude is "anyone could need it".
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walter
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Re: Shooting
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 8:49pm
 
perpetualstudent wrote on Sep 2nd, 2019 at 4:59pm:
it's not that it's "an essential appendage" it's more "there are situations where not having one could be fatal". So it's not "If I don't have it I'm not a man" it's "there are situations where not having that tool could mean I fail in my duty as a human".

The British attitude (and the gun control side here in the states as well) hinges on that "most people don't need it" and then adds obstacle on obstacle, and it's no big deal because you don't need it. While the more American attitude is "anyone could need it".


The revolver has saved me three times so far. Did not have to use it; just show it.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Shooting
Reply #6 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 1:35am
 
I like the idea of shooting but donít get out to actually do it enough. I particularly like to take out-of-town clients to the local range where you can rent a fully automatic WWII grease gun with a suppressor... very good entertainment for the 15 seconds before you run out of ammo!
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vetryan15
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Re: Shooting
Reply #7 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 6:10am
 
Well as you know, NJ has some of the strictest gun laws now. One of the resons i hated the state and wanted to move out. Only time i dealt with firearms were in the military.  After i moved up here. My family gave me around 7 firearms which i can say i can without a problem.  Open my door and shoot out.. Maine has a constitutional carry law that was passed a couple years back. So anyone that is allowed to own a firearm,  you can legally carry it open or concealed if you want.  I usually have a 45 cal semi automatic military issue 1911 while walking around the property,  and neighborhood.  I had to pull it on a persone once. Never saw them since.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Shooting
Reply #8 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 9:39am
 
Quote:
So the whole uk versus us gun issue - is purely down to attitude.
We think of them as tools that most people don't need. Most americans seem to think of them as an essential appendage, without which you are not a whole person.


@CA You are correct that attitude is different but a little off about how we differ. Itís actually not really about guns but about power and authority. Americans who own guns generally believe that the right to self defense is fundamental and transcends the authority of the state. Brits (and most others) own weapons at the pleasure of the state, which means the state also has the authority to take away a citizenís means of self defense. This means that citizens are virtually powerless if the state ever  becomes corrupt. The American Constitution explicitly limits the stateís authority regarding ďarmsĒ on the assumption that corruption is inevitable and therefore the stateís powers over people should be limited so that corruption cannot take root for long.

Of course, one big problem with the American philosophy is when some psycho citizen with a little charisma holds some extreme definition of ďcorruptionĒ, gathers a group together, and decides to take a stand against the government.  Thatís obviously bad, but itís also extremely rare. On the other hand, using a gun for self defense is quite common, and, like walter said, it usually doesnít even require pulling the trigger.
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Morphy
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Re: Shooting
Reply #9 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 4:03pm
 
I think that's the most commonly misunderstood point about the second amendment and US citizens themselves are often the most guilty of it.

The founding fathers lived in a time when tyrannical rule was the most pressing issue of the day. When they wanted the citizenry to have guns it was largely due to the common understanding of the founders that the people should at least have the means to fight back if such tyranny ever happened again. Their writings constantly point to that possibility,

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants..."

They were scholars of history. They understood what eventually happens to all governments that are around long enough. It's not about hunting and while personal self-defense is important I think if they thought of that it was secondary to maintaining freedom.

"I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery." Or Franklin's well known quote when asked what kind of government they had given the people "A Republic if you can keep it."

The understanding was pretty clear. Freedom doesn't last forever and when it wanes the people need the means to try to restore it.

I always look at it like flood insurance. You may pay on it for 50 years and never use it or you may have it two years and it saves your entire livelihood. That's what the second amendment is. Insurance you don't want to pay but are willing to keep just in case the big one hits.
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JudoP
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Re: Shooting
Reply #10 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:43pm
 
I am curious (genuinely) about how effective an armed populace would be in the face of a tyrannical government with the resources of the US.

It seems to me that if the army is under control- you are basically a goner, and if it isn't- they have nothing anyway. To me personal gun ownership seems a rather antiquated defence given most regimes do have control of a modern(ish) army.
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Rat Man
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Re: Shooting
Reply #11 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:51pm
 
    All of that said, mass shootings are now commonplace.  Something has to be done. This can't continue.  I don't think there's a perfect solution.  Background checks like those in New Jersey that vetryan hates are at  least a partial solution.  My gun purchasing permit was so old that it was invalid so I had to go through the whole process again a couple of years ago.  I am currently permitted to buy shotguns and rifles.  If I wanted to I could jump through the hoop a few more times and be allowed to buy handguns.  Though a bit of a butt pain I don't mind such precautions.  Yes, there are holes in the process but at least it's something.
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Morphy
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Re: Shooting
Reply #12 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:29pm
 
JudoP wrote on Sep 3rd, 2019 at 5:43pm:
I am curious (genuinely) about how effective an armed populace would be in the face of a tyrannical government with the resources of the US.

It seems to me that if the army is under control- you are basically a goner, and if it isn't- they have nothing anyway. To me personal gun ownership seems a rather antiquated defence given most regimes do have control of a modern(ish) army.


That's a fair point Judo. I honestly don't have a good answer for that. If you say conservatively speaking that the military is "just" 30 years in advanced of what they admit to having, hell if you say they only have what they admit to having which isn't likely then probably still not much. Still, it's something. Im not in a huge gun guy personally but I think if America is ever completely disarmed it's going to happen one of two ways.

One, in another 30-40 years the populace swings over to disarming enough that they freely give up the guns. That's still going to take awhile though. Or two, a massive terrorist attack, bigger than 9/11  or some other national emergency happens to America leading to civil unrest which accelerates the disarming.

As much as I hate the mass shootings, I don't see that causing the public to disarm. It's a horrible thing but I just don't see that happening. If they push the point it's going to get ugly. At least in 2019 it will. 2030 maybe a completely different story.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Shooting
Reply #13 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 7:36pm
 
My issue with that argument is that I don't find the idea of being driven down by a hijacked truck while Christmas shopping with my family to be preferable to being shot. If you have large groups of people someone with avg intelligence and a modicum of premeditation can come up with some horrific things. And the truly horrific mass shooting of children in Connecticut took place with an assault weapon ban and gun registration as the status quo. The husband and wife shooting in CA,likewise was a state with very strict gun control.

I agree that there does need to be an answer but the gun control one just buys some time before somebody has an idea and it trickles out into the community. The idea that ideologies (including the ignored nihilism) need to be responded to is the heart of the issue imo.

@Judo
Depends what you see a political break-up or civil war as constituting. You're quite right that a shotgun vs a tank isn't a contest. But the US hasn't done so well very recently in Afghanistan. Iraq it was more explosives but Afghanistan rifles were a very large factor. And civil wars imply that there is not a monopoly on the armed forces and in such a situation I would certainly prefer to have a firearm to not having one. We've been preaching the "end of the rifleman" for a long time, hasn't happened yet.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Shooting
Reply #14 - Sep 3rd, 2019 at 8:19pm
 
@Morphy: it took me a second to realize that you were agreeing with me Smiley
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