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figure-8 and Comanche (Read 791 times)
magic beetle
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figure-8 and Comanche
Mar 26th, 2019 at 8:46pm
 
the styles are the same right? I've been watching videos on both and they seem to look the exact same , does it have two names or am I missing something?
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #1 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 7:07am
 
not a clue what commanche is.
Where did you get that from ?
Fig 8 is fairly standard, there are many minor variations.
But the figure 8 movement of the hand is consistent to them all.
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magic beetle
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Re: curious aardvark
Reply #2 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 8:02am
 
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Sarosh
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #3 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 10:37am
 
@
magic beetle

I would call that fig-8 not comanche.

tip: for answering to someone's post you can click the small arrow on the left of the user's name (it will appear as in this post)
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magic beetle
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I like sling staffs and
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #4 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 10:53am
 
@
Sarosh

thanks , and yeah i would call it that too but it sounds cooler tbh  Tongue
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #5 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 1:34pm
 
huh - did not know the arrow thing Smiley

And yeah that's just fig 8 and the goth-wizard-in-the-hat making stuff up Smiley
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #6 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 2:31pm
 
@
Curious Aardvark

I didn't know the arrow thing.  Always just typed it out Grin
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 4:13pm
 
wonder where david got the commanche thing from ?

As far as I know there's almost no written descriptions of indian slinging techniques.
Just the apache - which is most likely just the style the old guy used and probably not an actual culturally accurate style.
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #8 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 5:03pm
 
I ran a search online and got a hit for another topic on this forum from quite a while back.  Looks like a discussion on this style.

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223285825
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walter
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2019 at 9:46pm
 
I remember that topic. Looks fast and like the second half of a f8. Trying it out!
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #10 - Mar 28th, 2019 at 12:37am
 
Sorry, dieses ganze Stil Gerede lässt sich historisch gar nicht belegen. Belegen lässt sich die sling als Waffe. Belegen lässt sich Munition. Belegen lassen sich Verletzungen.
Es gibt aus unterschiedlichen Epochen verschiedene Arten der Darstellung.
Wie eine Bewegung ausgeführt wird, ergibt sich durch die Waffe selbst.
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #11 - Mar 28th, 2019 at 8:08am
 
yep agree 100%

Just because someone teaches someone else a particular slinging technique - does not mean that it's a historical or cultural style.
In this case, one old indian taught someone else fig 8.
Had this old indian also taught that person how to fry an egg - would we now be calling fried eggs: huevos commanchero's ?
or commanche eggs.
(Just looks better in spanish Smiley )

Find me 100 commanches all using fig8, who can take you to a cave and show you historical paintings of their ancestors obviously using fig 8 - and you might have something.
If the cave also has a painting of someone frying eggs - then I'll be totally convinced Smiley

Take the balearic islands, longest traceable and persistent slinging culture we know of, as it goes back - unbroken - before roman times.

almost every modern balearic slinger has his or her own particular style.
There is no solidly consistent style.
pepi from malaga mostly uses a no windup sidearm, others use multi-rotation helicopter, others use a style where the sling pouch is spun behind their back and the pouch passes about a hair's breadth from the back of their heads - how hector has never knocked hilself out, I'll never know.
In short there are almost as many styles as there are slingers.

There is a lot more evidence that any slinger will develop a style that suits them, than slavishly follow a rigid set of rules and a particular style.

We call a no rotation semi-helicopter style 'greek' simply because when an ancient greek artist told his model to pose as a slinger - they all struck the same pose.
However it is a starting point that can go into a whole bunch of different styles - including fig 8 and a full on multi-rotation helicopter.

But as a pose, it looks good and it's obvious what is happening - which is why they all strike the same pose.
IT's a practical thing, not a culturally accurate thing.

Take a sideways picture of jorn from germany and you've got the spitting image of the catal hyuk slinger.
An argument that perhaps helicopter should be called turkish style maybe ?
But jorn was taught by jaegoor - who, last time I checked, wasn't a turk Smiley

Brian grubbs has probably taught more people fig8, through his videos, than anyone else on the forum - although nwmanitou's little gif, probably comes close.
So should we change it to grubby stylee ?
Obviously not.

Different sling styles have existed from the very first day the second slinger in history picked up a sling and told his mate: 'this works too Smiley ' 

Until someone finds a detailed description of mass slinging in an obvious and distinctive style, we're just making stuff up based on what it looks like.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #12 - Mar 28th, 2019 at 10:39am
 
Agreed.  I think the most that can be inferred is that there was at least one Comanche Indian who was once using a technique similar to what we call Fig-8.  And that's relying on the accuracy of the story.  But it leaves the possibility that this was a technique that was used by them.

It does make me wonder how the people of different cultures came across and started using different techniques.  But as was said, there isn't any way for us to know what these were.  Very interesting to wonder about though.
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Re: figure-8 and Comanche
Reply #13 - Mar 28th, 2019 at 12:05pm
 
I've always seen the names as being the very basics of a descriptive identifying system. If I say I hit a target and was using fig.8, people familiar with this forum at the least and maybe slinging more generally, wil have some idea about how I was slinging. However, if you get 10 people from this forum to throw fig. 8 they will not be throwing it the same way exactly. The sling, almost uniquely among weapons, doesn't seem to have a fixed idea of maximum efficiency for a throw. Every single person's body works slightly differently, different throwing styles can "make sense" for different people, slings can vary enormously and that's before we even get to ammo. My slinging a rock from a cotton braided split pouch sling is going to be entirely different to C_A slinging a tennis ball with one of his paracord and leather slings. It being so varied and individual experimentation being so vital is partly the reason I love slinging.
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