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Can you dodge a rock? (Read 4497 times)
Sarosh
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Can you dodge a rock?
Apr 20th, 2018 at 6:44pm
 
what are the conditions under which a human being is unable to react fast enough to dodge a thrown rock?
(try to imagine a duel situation)
conditions could be flight time, distance, velocity of projectile.

how big do you believe is the death circle around a loaded slinger?

watched too much mythbusters episodes..... Tongue
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #1 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 7:11pm
 
There are so many possibilities for this question! It really depends on the situation and who you are dueling.

Is it night time? or are you trying to murder a blind person?  Are they in a wheelchair? And is it electric or manual?

Did you lace your ammunition with poison? What about explosives?

Is the person wearing armor?

How long after the duel is over would you allow before it’s considered deadly or not?  What if they die a month later from complications? What if they accidentally fall off a cliff after dodging your projectile?
How far away is the nearest medical facility, and do the doctors there specialize in treating blunt force trauma? Where is the nearest medical helicopter?
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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woodssj
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #2 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 8:32pm
 
So, just to keep the model simple, let's use this set of circumstances:

1. Open room with no obstructions.
2. A 100% Perception Rate of the incoming projectile.
3. Human reaction time (.25 seconds, from: https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/reactiontime )
4. Sling "Muzzle" Velocity of 180km/h (50m/s) (From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVeqTbLTnp0)
5. "Muzzle" Energy of (150g and 50m/s=.5*150*50[squared] = 187.5 J) (From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_energy)
6. Energy determines lethality as a simplified version of terminal ballistics.
7. Stone strikes the chest while retaining full muzzle energy.

In this case, the Sling projectile has comparable energy to a .22LR rimfire round. This means it can certainly be deadly, and if we assume there's a hit in the body as the most area presented, we can consider the hit to be very likely disabling.

The deadly band FROM THE INSTANT THE STONE IS RELEASED would be determined by the following equation:
.25 Seconds * 50 Meters = 12.5 meters or 41 feet.

This will shrink as you factor in time for throw preparation time, and so on. However, it will not likely grow.

Also, you can cut out 6 or 7 meters of that, which can be closed to grapple before you can throw, if you follow these rules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckz7EmDxhtU

Thoughts?
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walter
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #3 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 10:47pm
 
Played a lot of baseball from about 8 to 18.  Was never hit by a pitch. Able to dodge them all. When I was a senior in HS, some of those pitches were doing 85 to 90 mph. I am 60 feet from the pitcher. To hit me, projectile would have to be travelling faster than 90 mph. Thrown from less than 60 feet away Wink
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #4 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 8:08am
 
if you can see the slinger, then you can watch the throw and predict the path of the stone.
So it's not entirely down to reaction time.

Like wise with a throwb baseball, knowlege of the pith and pitcher goes a long way towards dodging the ptich.

If you don't see the slinger - say he's behind a mysterious fog bank, but can see you with his magic goggles.
I don't think anyone could dodge fast enough.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Sarosh
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #5 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 9:24am
 
woodssj gave an interesting answer.

this is the full episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YX9xfwfocc
watch @  11:45
imagine adam is looking for trouble(unarmed) and jamie is a slinger.

what is the distance at which adam should not enter in order to be able to dodge ? jamie will either twirl the sling or have it on the ready for 1 rotation throw.

if jamie throws and misses then that's another story, so he must wait for adam to get into the deadly zone
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Rat Man
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #6 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 9:43am
 
     Sling stones come pretty fast.. about 100 mph depending.  In that in your scenario we can see the projectile coming, I'd like at least 50 yards to dodge it.  I am big, easy to hit, and not always super fast.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #7 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 10:11am
 
I’ll stop trolling your topic in a second, Sarosh, but the larger point I was making with all of the absurd questions is that there are moral problems with your question that outweigh the technical ones. Beyond about 30 feet, you would also want to consider whether it might be more prudent just to run away instead of standing in one place and trying to hit them with a rock when they eventually get into the “kill zone”.

If you ever defended yourself like this in real life, you would end up needing to also defend your actions in court. If a prosecuting lawyer found your post on this forum, they would inevitably try to paint you as a sociopath who was fantasizing about killing people with his sling in a pre-planned duel to the death.

Alternatively, you could have  gone through almost the exact same mental exercise in the context of hunting without making everyone who joins the discussion look like a murderous psychopath. Grin
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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timpa
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #8 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 1:34pm
 
When we were teenagers, I and my friends threw each other together. The distance was about one hundred meters/ yards. We never saw the stone when it came.
The thrower saw the stone. The recipient did not see.

It was very fun and very dangerous Cheesy  (And stupid)
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Mersa
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #9 - Apr 21st, 2018 at 6:42pm
 
I've also had a sling war with soft projectiles with a few friends , the really small stuff is nearly impossible to see , I think if a 150g lead glande was coming at 50m/s you ain't dodging
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #10 - Apr 22nd, 2018 at 7:09am
 
There's a great western film with lou gossett junior as a bounty hunter/ gunslinger in.

A teacher finds him to get his help and at one point lou shoots a man in the back.
The teacher is horrified: 'You shot him in the back !'
Lou gives him a lookand says : 'his back was to me.'
That one phrase really sums up the old west, it wasn't romantic. It was dirty, smelly and downright nasty Smiley

The point being, warfare is not honourable and the sling is perfectly made as an ambush weapon.
Long range, quiet and almost no way of telling where the missile came from.

So in the mythbusters scenario. Jamie should be hiding, until adams back 'is to him'.

called el diablo - awesome film.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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RS
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #11 - Apr 22nd, 2018 at 7:54pm
 
Mersa wrote on Apr 21st, 2018 at 6:42pm:
I've also had a sling war with soft projectiles with a few friends , the really small stuff is nearly impossible to see , I think if a 150g lead glande was coming at 50m/s you ain't dodging


if u can see the slinger, it takes less than one half a second to side step two paces.  the average human can run like 21 feet per second and a half.  so dodging an expert slingers shot at 50m per second that is over 50 meters, that u can see the slinger release, is easy whether u can see the projectile or not...it is dodging the ones who are not accurate that would be dangerous, because u could easily side step into the projectiles path. but i would say, at like 10 to 15 yards, i do not think anyone could get out of the way fast enough...maybe even 20 to 22 yards.
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2018 at 9:02pm by RS »  
 
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Morphy
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #12 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 9:45am
 
I think it would be harder, rather than easier than the scenario makes it seem. As was said sling stones are hard to see. For me I don't think I would be dodging out of the way of the stone as much as dodging when I saw the slinger actually throw.

If he misses, I might actually end up dodging into his shot but I don't trust myself to track a sling stone and react accordingly over such a short distance.
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timpa
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #13 - Apr 25th, 2018 at 3:26pm
 
Here's a couple of my old videos.  Which shows how badly the stone is visible. (When it comes towards.)
(Start looking at 1:45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OacGkUdlvc

and further:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFfL0ohzhBQ
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Sarosh
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Re: Can you dodge a rock?
Reply #14 - Apr 26th, 2018 at 3:03am
 
@timpa what distance are you at in the 2nd video?

watching the 2nd video i think it would be easy to move my limbs out of the way of the stone but not sure about head and torso

don't you think it's wise to run to the opposite direction the sling is turning?
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