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Throwing the Darn Thing (Read 6169 times)
Funditor406
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Throwing the Darn Thing
Feb 19th, 2018 at 10:07pm
 
So I have been recently trying to get back into the sling, and after reading this you could probably see why I would not throw anything else at the moment other than snow or tennis balls;

I just can't execute namely Helicopter or Balearic without it feeling really awkward, and I get into a perpetual state of wrist rotation. Whenever I attempt a shot (normally I practice stances without a sling), I get this weird urge to speed up right before the shot to compensate for an odd power displacement if I don't. In other words, I think the swirling even when slow is a bit difficult to keep track of and it throws off any attempt I make to generate a throw, let alone I can't remember how a proper throw should be executed.

I have tried to keep in mind the extension of the arm and the other theory some casual slingers have that That (extension of the arm theory) means you can throw a stone in a very similar manner to just throwing with your arm. Yet I'm still in a bit of a rut.

Any tips for rusty slingers or even beginners to get the correct form for a throw and/or feel when it comes, "time to throw," (especially with Helicopter or Balearic) to pull off a safe and effective shot? If anyone would make a description similar to Primitive Technology's in his video description, yet obviously more in depth if they could (no need for copy and paste, ha ha), that would be very greatly appreciated.
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JudoP
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #1 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 7:58am
 
I'd just rotate it really slowly. I think with a shorter sling especially you need very little initial rotation speed going into the throw, so it's easier to pick your timing.

Longer slings might be harder though, you can't just go from a lazy swing into a fast throw.
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #2 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 12:02pm
 
I know exactly what you mean and I still haven't got over it. My work around? Don't bother with the rotations. If doing helicopter, I go from the sling hanging vertically into one rotation and throw. Same with Balearic just moving straight into the throwing motion.

Long slings are a struggle but after discovering the Tibetan style of throwing with a long sling (this is like the fiftieth time I've brought it up so I must be sounding like a broken record but it really was a revelation!) you can move from the start position straight into the throw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGmnXHQxi0E

Practicing without the extra rotations just to get back into it and then trying later to relax into it would be my suggestion.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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RS
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #3 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 5:08pm
 
she lost so much power and accuracy by helicoptering it like that.  doing the basic turkey hunter overhand(that is why it is used and what it was developed for in the appalachian mountains.) would have generated her much more power and accuracy than what she got.  the sling is a little long for it   it is the same thing with no rotations.  when it is done correctly, the release is so fast and hard it is often difficult to see even a small to medium sized projectile.  it should be sized to pull taut when it is behind you like she had it at the start, slightly lifted in the left hand, then just let it drop, extend out the throwing arm at the elbow and match time with the wrist snapping forward.  it serves no purpose to start like that then go into the helicopter. at the most if you are going to do it like that, just bend the byzantine style a little and start it like that instead. 
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Morphy
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #4 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 7:53pm
 
Sounds like our version of target panic. And yea, probably most of us have experienced that at some time or another.

Here's what I would suggest: Use a very heavy rock that is right on the limit of what you can throw. It will not be possible to quickly speed up the pouch at the last second with a stone that size. Keep doing this and let it become muscle memory. Then begin to slowly reduce the size of the stone until it feels normal with your regular size stone.

That's for a severe case. For a less severe one just force yourself to sling without speeding up no matter how awkward it feels. It will eventually sort itself out.

Lastly, you could just ditch the rotor altogether. Rotors have one really good purpose and that is to allow you to release a shot immediately when the need arises.

One use for this is to have one person throw a stone at a large brush pile and the other to maintain the rotor for an instant shot if/when an animal bolts. Other than that, there's not much use I can see. Some say it's good for judging stone weight but that's an imperfect solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Use all the same weight and you never have to reaccquire a feel for changing ammo.

That's not to say you can't be accurate with a rotor. Clearly you can be. It just always seemed a little unnecessary for my taste. Anyways tangent-city there, good luck.
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #5 - Feb 21st, 2018 at 9:03am
 
never use a standard arm-rock throwing technique.
The problem most people seem to have at the start, is that they still think they are throwing by hand.
It's one reason I always start people with a basic underhand throw. That way they learn to use the sling, not their arm.

It's also one reason that a sidearm balearic style is so bad for your elbows.
You're tghrowing with your arm, but there's no real resistance there so your joints take all the impact, like trying to punch something and missing.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #6 - Feb 21st, 2018 at 6:57pm
 
Tatsächlich lernt man einen guten Hubschrauber Stil indem man werfen und Slingen einzeln kombiniert.
Nehmen sie einen Tennisball in die Hand . Die Sling haben sie wie gewohnt am Finger. Sie drehen die Sling . Aber sie werfen denn Ball mit der Hand.  Die Sling wird ihrer Bewegung folgen. Auf diese Weise erlernen sie sehr natürlich und schnell einen präzisen Schuß.  Ich trainiere dies mit einigen Kindern . Die Erfolge sind wirklich erstaunlich.
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Funditor406
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #7 - Apr 1st, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
Sorry I hadn't responded to this, thanks for the instruction!
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 2:06am
 
It's funny this thread has just come up again because it was over this Easter weekend at the summer cottage I finally got over that hesitation when it comes to Balearic. All it takes it's lots and lots of practice. Having a giant empty frozen lake where you know you won't hit anything or anyone also helps Cheesy
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #9 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 7:16am
 
the other way to learn is to use a no-rotation- throw.

For sidearm (balearic-ish) it's much more natural than starting with rotations and as it's all done in a single coordinated body movement - also has a lot of power.

One of the really good spanish guys - pepe (about half of them seem to be called pep or pepi or pepe) uses a no windup target style that is extremely effective.

Should be a couple of videos to illustrate.
Think my old -'was going to be on dvd' has basic sidearm and i know david has videoed pepe.

Okay here's the no windup sidearm used for target slinging:


video I made over 10 years ago in wyoming (where does the time go ??)


Ah the classic description of fig-8: 'basically an overhand throw with a bit of fiddling about beforehand'.
Clear as mud Smiley

On the same level helicopter would be a standard overarm/greek throw with some mucking about beforehand Smiley 
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #10 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 6:22pm
 
That's some great advice Aardvark, thank you very much!
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #11 - Apr 5th, 2018 at 6:08am
 
CA not to pick on your video but was that what you would call side arm? That was a Byzantine side arm??  I still have trouble understanding the names as the styles blend . I thought that was more of a over head realease like a heli Byzantine ??? My side arms release Lower than my shoulder .myabe I should try get a video of all my Byzantine releases and let everyone decide what they are.
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #12 - Apr 5th, 2018 at 7:40am
 
forget all the silly made up names.

Sidearm is a release below your shoulder. Overarm is one above your shoulder. underam should be a release in a vertical line with your hand at the release point usually below the waist.

Everything else is either a qualifier: helicopter to overhand release.
Or just some name someone made up because they were bored Smiley

Byzantine and Balearic are classis examples of nonsensical made up names.

Balearic slingers use: sidearm, underarm, overarm - with windups and without, some even use fig-8
Each slinger has his own style, many of them are illegal by strict competition rules.
The rules say you must make at least two rotations 'over your head'.
Well given that luis pons livermore uses a sidearm style and at no point does his sling go over his head - kind of illustrates my point.
One of the best balaearic slingers of the modern era - strictly speaking - should have been disqualified in almost every competition he's won. 

The only sensible way to characterise a sling throw is with the release point, and to a certain extent the 'wind-up' that leads to the release, used as a modifier.

Giving them names - sometimes makes it easier to know what someone is talking about - sometimes not Smiley    

Figure 8 is a classic example. It's an overarm release with a distinctive windup where the hand and sometimes the sling (not always) describes a figure of 8 in the air.
But even here there are variations on a theme. I often use a contracted version that lets me sling with something quite close behind or in front of me:


usually the initial drop is inline with my right (throwing) shoulder. In this case I actually release on my left side and the first acceleration pull is actually across my body rather than in a swinging line behind me on the right side.
Likewise the movement behind my back has a horizontal aspect to it. So whiloe the sling still has the same distance to accelerate in, it doesn't take up as much space as a more classic fig 8 style. Plus is fast and practical.


I think we can probably call this 'Aardvark Fig 8'. whistle
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #13 - Apr 5th, 2018 at 8:16am
 
I think a good example of how the names are so interchangeable is RS who seems to have an entirely different slinging vocabulary to the rest of us Cheesy
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Re: Throwing the Darn Thing
Reply #14 - Apr 5th, 2018 at 9:49am
 
You have to bear in mind that the terminology we use on slinging.org - was developed over the last 15 years on slinging.org.

Obviously others have their own terms for things.

Trying to standardise it all is one of our goals.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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