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Stumbled across this (Read 196 times)
Mersa
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Druid

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Stumbled across this
Dec 3rd, 2017 at 9:11pm
 
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Thearos
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #1 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:01pm
 
Very useful examination of evidence linked to Roman tactical camp before hillfort. "Acorns" to "lemons" (they fly the same). One carved stone sling bullet.

What horrible slings. Who was the expert slinger ? Good Lord, they're using an "Achaian" target, with a ring !

Slingers drop shot-- you can use this to find shooting positions, and hence the whole choreography of suppressive fire, assault, and secondary barrage to cut off an escape route from the hillfort the Romans assaulted. Believes in slung "grapeshot", small lead shot with holes.

Watch this !
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kicktheotter
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 3:40am
 
Putting a comment  to remind myself to come back and watch this.
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 10:01am
 
isn't this the project joerg sprave was involved with ?

The grapeshot thing is all well and good, but there is a size limit beyond which a slung lead sphere just sn't going to do any real damage.

lol luis and his melons.

There is no balearic slinger on the planet who could hit ANYTHING at 100 metres. Hell most couldn't sling that far anyway. I've yet to get any of them to agree to a competition at 30 metres, let alone any further.

If he's putting those through that hoop regularly, I'm impressed.

Bollocks to the dropping ammo. Never done that.

Plus sidearm is actually better for distance than fig8 (what the guy was using).

It's interesting and archaeologists are finally going somewhat in the right direction.

But they still don't get proper experts involved that often.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Morphy
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 11:57am
 
CA don't they compete at 20 and 30 meters usually? That was the impression I always had anyways.
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #5 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 1:13pm
 
why acorn shaped lead, wouldn't it be more difficult to make such mold?or throw it with spiral?

nice accuracy with the ring target.
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"Αιεν αριστευειν και υπείροχον έμμεναι άλλων", Iliad Z 208
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Mersa
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #6 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 4:01pm
 
Acorn shape is surely just a makeshift mould . Although I am impressed with the flight of some tree fruit/seeds and can imagine the acorn shape isn't all that bad.

Yeah this is the guy that went to Jorge . I wonder if he would be interested in slingers from here to help out. Seems like every scientist that tries to get data on the sling doesn't use a proficient slinger.

I also thought the shots through the ring looked pretty good
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 4:49pm
 
This is a nice talk. I really enjoyed it. 

13:30 german colleague who did ballistics... Does anyone know this source? (possibly frankfurt? 21:26)
15:20 Naming the expert would be nice.
(his first name seems to be Don: https://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/features/burnswark.htm doesn't show up in the acknowledgements.)
15:40: I'd like to see that at normal speed. It does not look very "fluid". There is a lot of elbow movement but the fast forward might exagerate that.
The slings didn't impress me either.
The hits through the loop are most probably a compilation.
I didn't get what info they obtained or wanted to obtain from the slow motion camera.
15:55 Dropping ammo can result from poor technique and sling construction, but it is nevertheless a good way to find shooting positions. About the exact percentage one can argue. There is still the possibility of ripping ammo bags, not completely closed ammo bags while moving, tumbles, someone bumps into you and so on. And CA, I tell you, under combat stress even you inevitably start to drop and lose things. If you don't trust me, I'll come over and pressure you a little bit in the field (with a stick!)  Grin .

16:50 About the grapeshot I have not yet made up my mind. Whistling is possible/probable.
I like the scatter maps!
28:00 Sprave is mentioned in Acknowledgements. No Don unfortunately...


From a professional viewpoint I miss a couple citations (any publications about that?), but I work in a different field. I guess for the attendees it was clear who and which papers were meant.


The previous year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ4ODrmA6U8
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Mersa
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 8:43pm
 
Here is the video from Jorge

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJBKfQFD8I
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #9 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 6:56am
 
I oresume it was the romans attacking the celts - not sure if it was ever mentioned or if I just missed it.

And the romans used leather pouches - well they've been found in roman remains.
Which would make the scatter gun approach much more feasible.
Leather pouches are far more suited to that kind of thing than a woven pouch.

I believe you teg, when i spent the day with the vikings we did a 'sling at attacking warrior' exercise.
It does throw you.

Cold hands, cold ammo - okay, I'll buy that one Smiley

Any chance you can make it to mallorca next year ? I'll bring sockballs, you bring a stick and we can have a play Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #10 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 5:45pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 6:56am:
oresume it was the romans attacking the celts - not sure if it was ever mentioned or if I just missed it.

Yes, and the big argument is how. The story changes over the years.


Curious Aardvark wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 6:56am:
Any chance you can make it to mallorca next year ?


Not sure. I'll have to see when the date is out and what work says... Also training is a bit scarce at the moment.
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Thearos
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #11 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:12pm
 
I completely believe that in combat action, even if highly trained, soldiers fumble a lot under stress. Admittedly the parallel the archaeologist had was 7th Cav troopers at Little Big Horn, who were presumably extremely spooked at being cut off by the Dakota braves.
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #12 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:35am
 
Quote:
Not sure. I'll have to see when the date is out and what work says... Also training is a bit scarce at the moment.
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date's always the same.
1st mrch to the following sunday.
so realisticall,y fly out on the 28th feb and back the following monday.

training ? lol what's that Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Mersa
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Druid

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Re: Stumbled across this
Reply #13 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:51am
 
Can anyone turn up and compete? Or is there qualifying and things? Flights are cheaper than I thought  Undecided

Also found this

https://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/news/170524-ruins-weaponry-scottish-r
oman-battle-vin

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