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Range slinging overarm type throw (Read 3596 times)
JudoP
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Range slinging overarm type throw
Sep 10th, 2017 at 2:12pm
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9brsLpjW6g

I've continued my experimenting with long sling throwing styles and have sort of settled on this technique. Not exactly sure what it is, feels like a kind of helicopter to overarm- but watching the video the windup looks more sidearm.

Probably 80% of why I like it a lot vs a more standard sidearm release, is it doesn't seem to impart much spin at all (or at least none in a bad direction)- which can kill my range throws.

This seems to make it a bit more consistent to hit good ranges- it's also nice to have an overarm type throw for long slings since fig-8 is a bit dicey with a 45'' sling- and I'm more an overarm thrower than anything else really.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #1 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 2:34pm
 
max range?
i would add a little hop/stride or generally more leg action with more torso twist for range, but that would change the style Tongue
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #2 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:11pm
 
johan wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
i would add a little hop/stride or generally more leg action with more torso twist for range,


Yes - one step forward and / or a little more "body use" (forward) while ending the last half rotation would increase the "extension" and so the range too. Even a "hopper" (in the right moment) is a good solution / suggestion for increasing the range further more ... but also a little tricky to perform it the best way.

johan wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
but this would change the style


Of course, but slinging is not "posing"  Wink.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #3 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:24pm
 
Thank you both- I'll try that out next time. I've been going more or less 'full on' on some throws but what I gain in power I lose in finesse!

I'm not sure what range to be honest- this was another question I was going to ask. I usually just shoot out to sea or into inaccessible land so it's hard to estimate.

I'm fairly optimistic that I've hit 200m before, I tried pacing a semi-decent range throw along the beach last time I was out and it came to about 155m. Though I've definitely thrown further than that with my best throws.

My absolute max throw could be anything from 170-250m to be honest. On my (probable) best throws I watch the rock out of sight at about the point it starts falling- I have no idea how far those go (colour and size of stone affects this a lot too, so I don't think it's much of a reliable measure).
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #4 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:34pm
 
By the way only: Today I was throwing again and watched this time my hand while performing a "strong" (speedy) helicopter right over my head. And there I saw (the first time!?) how small the hands moving circle is: Not only 10 cm wide - perhaps six or maximum eight cm only (means "diameter" here). Or to be honestly: While watching it the same time as performing it, it "feels" like 6 - 8 cm, but looks like 3 - 4 cm only.

So while calculating with lengths of slings (and velocity related of "rps") this small amount really could be ignored or neglected. It's not much more than "nothing".

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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #5 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 5:38pm
 
Go for a Byzantine with overhan release . I think as long as the initial kick off is strong it will work with your style. I made my first long sling yesterday for tennis balls . Goes alright but still throwing further with my 27 inch every day sling
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #6 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 6:31pm
 
Apex-apoc wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:34pm:
By the way only: Today I was throwing again and watched this time my hand while performing a "strong" (speedy) helicopter right over my head. And there I saw (the first time!?) how small the hands moving circle is: Not only 10 cm wide - perhaps six or maximum eight cm only (means "diameter" here). Or to be honestly: While watching it the same time as performing it, it "feels" like 6 - 8 cm, but looks like 3 - 4 cm only.

So while calculating with lengths of slings (and velocity related of "rps") this small amount really could be ignored or neglected. It's not much more than "nothing".



I've been thinking about similar myself. I would think that the faster rotations require even less hand movement to drive. I see it as a sort of 'driven' circular motion but haven't really had time to get into it. It's the off center pull which accelerates the sling projectile round in a circle I believe.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #7 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 6:38pm
 
Mersa wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 5:38pm:
Go for a Byzantine with overhan release . I think as long as the initial kick off is strong it will work with your style. I made my first long sling yesterday for tennis balls . Goes alright but still throwing further with my 27 inch every day sling


I have tried it a couple of times but I don't throw much byzantine style and the overarm one I struggle to do it with a long sling.

Funnily enough I noticed the other day that your modified type byzantine may share some characteristics with Larry Bray's style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4

What do you think? He does a lot more body movement and uses a long sling, but it looks like the mechanics are similar.

It took me a while to get the hang of long slings (I still am), the action is a bit different, it feels like a longer/slower action than with a short sling. Even so, I'm not really getting much more range- the main difference is I can now throw a fair bit heavier rocks the similar distance quite easily.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #8 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 6:59pm
 
Yeah judop I'm glad that you mentioned it first . I had thought the same thing recently but did not want to compare myself with a slinging master like larry. I've been trying to put more body movement and twist into my throws to get more power/range but I haven't mastered the technique with my long sling. I only just made it and to be honest I won't use it.
My short sling is what I carry and what I'll hunt with. I don't often try throw purely for distance so I doubt I'll use it much(probably give it away like most my slings).

The Byzantine style I throw is by far the most gentle on my body. I very rarely find myself getting sore if I throw only that style. Heli and Byzantine heli give me sore shoulder blades after 3 days of throwing and figure 8 and Apache can really hurt if you try something too heavy. So I find myself actually having to try other styles as I'm so comfortable in my overhand Byzantine style .

I got a very good slowmo vid showing the path the sling takes but I can't upload to YouTube for some reason been trying for weeks (crud computer). If CA won't boot me I'll be happy to share it direct on here.

Ps thanks for the larry comment  Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 5:19am
 
Haha well I only figured it out when I looked at Larry's style again and tried (unsuccessfully) to emulate it. Without a careful eye it looks like a standard byzantine, but the projectile appears to swing more round behind you than above you (as in closer to fig-8 than heli on rotation).

Then I realized it's a similar action to your modified byzantine.

I need to practice byzantine a bit really, I don't have the body movement down very well to transfer maximum power so I mainly use a sort of heli/balearic style for distance. I find it quite light on the body especially with a long sling.

I mostly just sling out to sea so nothing more to do than go for distance- These long powerhouse slings are perfect for that sort of throwing, though I keep a few 24''-32'' slings around for when I go for walks and want to sling on the go.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 6:21am
 
the thing with larry's style is that he manages to transfer a tremendous amount of energy from body movemt into the final throw.

In practice, it's nothing like byzantine. And you do need to fall over at the end Smiley

In your style, distance slinging judo - a hop doesn't help. It's the same one I use.

your waist generates a lot of power and as long as you can take the rotational speed of the sling into the final throw, there's very little that running, jumping and hopping can add.

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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 6:21am:
your waist generates a lot of power and as long as you can take the rotational speed of the sling into the final throw, there's very little that running, jumping and hopping can add.


That's simply not true! Of course the hop would help A LOT, because it is not its relativ low speed for an add but the extra length of EXTENSION that changes the simple "helicopter-circle" into an "ellipse" (not really an ellipse but something similar). The ratio of smaller and larger axis of these ellipse creates the "special top-velocity" or "top-acceleration".

The farther this extension the higher the (achievable) top velocity / acceleration!

Also hammer throwers does not staggering / stepping (or hopping) stright on to the start line for the small addition of speed, but for enlarging the "extension" of their acceleration circle!

But this enlarging of extension has to be done within the last half round of rotation, when the arm is teared to the front. So that has to be done very quickly and timed very good ... in a step forward or even better in a hop.

The simple step is done more easy, of course, while the hop already needs some skills of a well trained (cick~) boxer or a gymnast. Tricky to practice / perform perfect, of course, but not unfeasible.


Remember or calculate the "maximum" launch velocity that can achieved by simple rotations only and the high difference between these and the neccessary top speed for reaching 300 meters! You are the learned (graduated?) "calculator" - so HOW fast can you rotate the sling and what is then the speed of stone? Is that enough for throwing for 250 meters ???
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:57am by Apex-apoc »  
 
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:34am
 
um, nobody is throwing a hammer.

And i am talking from long experience, not made up stuff based on other sports.
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #13 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:53am
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:34am:
um, nobody is throwing a hammer.


Wrong: Hammer throwers throws a lot of hammers!

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:34am:
And i am talking from long experience, not made up stuff based on other sports.


Wrong: Only to days ago you was talking about "knuckle balls" (thats from baseball)!  http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1504704106/30

And the long experience dosen't matter here, because that I have too (respectively "is not proofed"). To know Larry or the baleares very long is neither "long ~" nor "much experience in slinging". The experience in slinging comes only from slinging a lot, and that "large amount of throws" you have not filmed or proofed. You filmed maximum 30 throws! Is that your "long experience?"

So I was not talking from / about long experience (like you, perhaps) but about long distance slinging. Roll Eyes And see: I wrote not "the hammer throwers" but "Also the hammer throwers" after talking about the hop for long range slinging


But of course I wish to you to become able soon to film "experience" too, because thinking that the necessary top~ or muzzle speed could came alone from the "rps" of rotation (out of the waist) sounds right not very much like "much experience".

If that phenomenon were the case, the throwers arm (hand) also could stay behind the thrower (while release) and had not to be pulled to the front. Therefore I said these PULL (= extension) has to be as far as possible and to be done very quick, and right that is performed by a jump (hop) at the best way.
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:59am by Apex-apoc »  
 
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Re: Range slinging overarm type throw
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:00am
 
Had a go with my long sling today. I think I need something heavier . Throwing the modified Byzantine and was getting good but not feeling the usual burst of acceleration in the end of the throw.
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