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Sling Braiding Questions (Read 5794 times)
Morphy
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Sling Braiding Questions
Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:06am
 
Hey guys, I think Im finally going to do some legitimate sling braiding and I was wondering if those of you with expeience could help me out.

Heres my questions:  Should I start out with a one of those cheap Kumihimo discs or just go for making a Maurudai from the start?

Are there any advantages to using the Maurudai?

Is there one particular book that is better than others to start out with? Some of the things Im wondering about are how to make the retention loop (I assume its just as you would with a normal braid; folding the cord over and braiding both sides together?)

Also I keep mentally going over the braiding steps in my mind for braiding around a core. My idea is to have 4 plies in the core then seperate them into two groups of two at the pouch and do a split pouch apache. Basically instead of splitting the cord into just two sides and sewing leather on, I would split the cord into four and have two on one side and two on the other, making a split pouch. If that makes sense. But Im struggling to figure out how to incorporate the outer braided plies into the core plies in an aesthetic manner. Im wondering if I can just get a square disc for flat braids and do it that way...I really have no idea.

I realize this is a very specific and random set of questions but any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Teg
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #1 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 4:46pm
 
Welcome to a very beautiful world  Wink

What's best depends on what you want to do and which techniques you use.
For sling braids you have mainly three possibilities:
- Working freehanded (so called fistbraiding), the peruvian way.
- Marudai.
- Kumihimo disk

Freehand:
Pros: No tools are required, work can be packed up tightly and done everywhere.
Cons: The possible techniques are more limited and there are certain braids that can not (easily) be done.
Varia: That's my preferred way of working. Feels very natural to me.  Works with the method "Look at it and pick the right one" aka: "The master of chaos"  Wink There are many possible patterns.

Marudai: I have very limited personal experience, mostly theoretical from books and hearsay.
Pros: Very versatile, very broad range of patterns are available. Tensioning is  done by counterweight and is thus more even.
Cons: Requires a lot of material especially for larger projects, bulky to transport, requires space.
Varia: For people that like to follow drawn schemes. many books are available. It is arguably the fastest method as only little manual tensioning is required and both hands can be used to manipulate threads.


Kumihimo card:
Pro: Easy to make yourself out of cardboard, modestly small and thus easy to transport, keeps your threads always in order.
Cons: Not very fast. Threads can be damaged when popping them in and out of the slots.
Varia: Beginners choice. Only the ability to follow numbers is required and no deeper understanding of the structure of the braid. Plenty of books around. I find it easier when braiding freehand to get the tensioning right.

So if your frustration tolerance is high I would go directly to freehand or Marudai as these are from my point of view the advanced methods. If you want a first fast success, get/make a card and follow a recipe.

About the retention loop: Yes, that's how you do it.

Transitions are the real "trade secrets" and everyone is doing them a little bit differently. There are just too many different ways. For a first attempt: Grab all your strings (including core), split into two groups. Rearrange strings and put half of them away. Braid both groups individually to your designed pattern and combine again or use another technique such as weaving. It usually turns out okay. If necessary, cover up the transition with a colourful wrapping.
Make sampling pieces to test techniques!
Hint: for the first piece, don't use a core. it just adds difficulty. Just split the threads into two groups and braid them as you like or use a weaving technique as done in many peruvian slings.


Books: http://www.braidershand.com/bhbooks1.html
You might find the book due in November especially interesting (i'm going to buy it Wink)
Others:
Andean Sling braids by Rodrick Owen and Terry Newhouse Flynn (card, marudai, all patterns possible to be done freehanded, covers braids with cores).
Braids - 250 Patterns from Japan, Peru and Beyond (Marudai and Card) also by Owen
Sling Braiding of the Andes by Adele Cahlander (original publication on fistbraiding)

I can recommend all of these.

Free info: https://backstrapweaving.wordpress.com/tutorials/tutorial-palma-and-margarita-br
aids/
(fistbraiding).
For the card and Marudai just search the web for the basic ones:
- http://fene4ki.ru/en/kumihimo-bracelet-tutorial.html
- http://craftdesignonline.com






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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #2 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:02pm
 
Teg, you're amazing my good sir. Thanks for all that info. You definitely answered a lot of questions. Ive been thinking a lot about this and since I dont have the materials yet all I can do is go over the different steps and patterns in my head. Looking forward to getting started. Cheesy

By the way... I completely forgot to send you something for winning the 1up target slinging contest.  I have an idea of something but not sure if I can pull it off. Anyways, if not that then I definitely want to send something. If you could pm me your address I will send you something as soon as circumstances permit. Thanks.  Smiley
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Teg
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #3 - Aug 7th, 2017 at 5:17pm
 
You're welcome! Braiding has a special place in my heart and life.

I'll send a PM your way shortly.
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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #4 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 3:11pm
 
That moment when you're braiding a sling and you realize you are being watched...   Shocked

...
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #5 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 5:41pm
 
I've always been a freehander.  Maybe it's time to try something different. It may respark my interest.
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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #6 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:06am
 
Ok, next question if anyone knows about this stuff... I am currently stuck in my house so it only makes sense to braid a sling.

My question is how much thread do I need? I am braiding around a core of 2 gutted paracord. I want a 24 inch sling and the pouch will be around 5.5 inches. So thats 24 inches × 2 for both sides equals 48" plus the 5.5. for the pouch plus a few more for the loop. So lets say about 60 inches of length to braid.

So i measured 8 arm lengths of 27 inches each per bundle. Which means each bundle is approx. 216 inches.

Will this be enough? Because it feels kind of like it wont be. But I tend to always over shoot how much cord I need and end up with tons of extra in each bundle. The other concern is that Im braiding around a pinky finger thick core so would that require more material?

Thanks  Smiley
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Teg
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:55pm
 
Morphy wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:06am:
Will this be enough?
I don't know  Wink

Morphy wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:06am:
The other concern is that Im braiding around a pinky finger thick core so would that require more material?

Yes, having a core will usually require more material.

Typically I multiply the intended length with 2 to 3 to get my initial string length, with 2 beeing on the short end and 3 beeing conservative. However, I have no idea what impact your core will have. So for 60 inch, I'd take 180 inch to be on the save side. With 216 inch your a bit above that and most probably safe (but don't blame me  Wink)

The definitive answer is: sampling.

Example: take e.g. 20 cm of string into each bundle (initial string length).
Braid as long as you want around the core e.g. 10 cm (braided length).
Measure how much you have left in each bundle e.g. 5 cm (leftover).
Decide how long your braid shall be in the end  e.g. 2 m (intended braid length).

Calculate the required initial string length:

(initial string length - leftover) / (braided length) * (intended braid length) =  required initial string length

for this example:

(20 cm  - 5 cm)/ (10 cm) * (200 cm) = 300 cm.

And add safety margin etc ( e.g. 50 cm).

I would therefore take ~350 cm of string for the above example.

Usually: the longer you make your sample, the more accurate your estimate will be. 10 cm is quite short for a sampling piece.






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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 5:45pm
 
Thanks Teg. That makes sense. If this one ends up too short which I assume it will, I will probably just have to add a replacable release cord to shorten the amount of thread I need. Good learning experience either way.
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 6:02pm
 
Every time I start a new sling the first string I cut is always too short.

I use 3 pieces of string braided and folded in the middle to form a finger loop then use the 6 stands to braid the sling and split pouch.

Very quick free hand with a flat plait
Much longer process free hand doing a 6 round braid.

Measure 3 times cut once
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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #10 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:24am
 
Measure 3 cut once. Wise words. Nothing worse than putting in 20 hours of work only to realize its not quite right. This will be the third time Ive messed up on this particular sling. I will be starting my 4th tomorrow if possible.

But that being said it's almost as enjoyable learning the pitfalls and becoming a better braider as it is actually finishing the sling. When it  is finished it will be worth it.
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« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:21pm by Morphy »  

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Teg
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #11 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 3:26pm
 
Yes, in the beginning it requires some determination. However, I really enjoy solving some manual problems after a day in the office. The way is the experience  Wink.

Looking forward to see the final result!
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Morphy
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #12 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:10pm
 
Teg wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 3:26pm:
Yes, in the beginning it requires some determination. However, I really enjoy solving some manual problems after a day in the office. The way is the experience  Wink.

Looking forward to see the final result!



Thanks Teg. Totally agree.  Smiley
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Tomas
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #13 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:14pm
 
Hey Morphy,
I use a marudai. I get a much better quality braid from it and the patterns are far superior to what I've been able to achieve by hand.
My set up is really cheap but works well.
I picked a cheap, tallish stool and drilled a 1" hole in the middle. I then bought some glass spice jars (maybe like 2 Oz capacity?)and wrapped hockey tape around them for the cord to grip.
I then fill the jars with the appropriate amount of water for the cord I'm using. Thicker cord needs a heavier spice jar bobbin to get good and tight tension.
I find it a hard not to go too fast with the marudai. I'll get carried away and make a mistake and have to back track to fix it.
Also, the marudai is much better than the handheld thing.
I'm going to be very interest to see what you come up with with new toys
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Tomas
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Re: Sling Braiding Questions
Reply #14 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:16pm
 
Sorry about the garbled sentence structure folks
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