I get the bits about long and thin sling; I'm interested about the issues of torsion; I agree with weight and best ammo, and energy conservation. I am even ready to agree that helo is problematic, even though it's the only way I sling; I've never tried pirouette.

What I don't understand, and may have missed, is how Mr Apoc slings, and would be interested to find out more.

Thearos wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2017 at 7:20am:


My slinging style is similar at the most to that of D. McNamara, respectively like he does in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK3H45Qld3k  (especially like done in the last 30 sec. of this video ... but without the "twitches" that are a sign of "overexertion" or uncertainty)

With this style it is very easy to create very steep release-angles (30° - 60°) or even to throw in the tops of high trees that are standing very close (... because this style is pretty close to "underarm" where bullets practicaly comes "from below").

Otherwise nearly right as parmenion said:

• High initial velocity (min. 3 rps.)
• A significant long "extension" = hands / arms motion from behind the body into its front - so "long streched" (surposed from the whole upper body) ...
• ... started at the perfect moment ... (can be felt) *
• ... and done in a very short time (can be practiced / trained) *

The special difficulty is to absolve such a wide extension within that short time, because the SEQUENCE (!) of such a high rotated sling is only 1/3 second (frequence = 3 rps !) - so its last half is a 1/6 second only (if not even much shorter because of its high acceleration!). In this time the whole extension of length up to 2,6 m has to be started and completed.


* Attention: Right this generates an extremly high burden to the ellbows inner side and can cause joint-inflammatory very easily. Do not practice more than 25 throws per week when they are so hard ... or for practice take tennis-balls instead of more heavy stones ! ! !

Thearos wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2017 at 10:54am:


Yes - if you want to catch it correct for best range then its time window is even smaller than the window for the correct moment of release. Perhaps +/- 1/40 second. To fail it means not allways an interruption of release-process (to start trough anew) but allways a loss of some range.

While throwing stones that loss can count up to 35 m (so not "+/-" but allways "minus") or 10% of aimed distance. First when this loss would be more - also "felt as more" - then the body or brain decides for an interruption. Thats why it comes often to such (thus?) moments, where you not know how to decide when not knowing what you want.

Therefore you have to choose (or to imagine / remember) a target even when accuracy then no more counts. Because to have no target (aim) the brain makes to much confused. This necessary target then is only for knowing what you want to do. First when such a target is known, decided or remembered, then the brain can handle all "feelings" right. If not then not.

Otherwise you allways risks a "twitch", an interruption and / or loss of range (= throws that are to short / weak for reaching the target).

So to have a target is better in each case - while throwing for range only or only for accuracy. Because throwing for "nowhere & all over" (like McNamara for his filmed video-demonstration has tried in its last 40 seconds) makes your body or brain absolutely gaga / confuse.

McNamara there was not concentrated for a complete (sensefull) throw but to demonstrate a "motion without a sense (= aim / target)". This is why he twiched / interrupt a few times: He was confused because the sense / aim of his task was not decided but "twice" or twofold.

Distances without target does not exist (!) - so never throw for ranges without a target. A distance is only that what have a start and an end.

johan wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2017 at 7:31am:


For this you only had to understand the dynamic of pendulum (and A. Einstein): When a permanent "extension" (acceleration) is given to a deflected pendulum then it also would commute even without a field of gravity (... "gravitiy propably is nothing else as an accelerated inertial-system ... heavy mass = sluggish mass).

According to Einstein it doesnt matter if a force pulls on the pendel-mass or on its pivot point (in counter-direction). Therefore I said: "Imagine a (still standing) turntabel and put a mass on its edge. When trecking now the whole turntabel in perpendicular direction to the radius between pivot point and mass, then the table would start to turn (also without gravity or running motor)"

For this some very simple but very revealing experiments can be done with a simple flat round "can" (~ 12 or 15 cm wide; 3 - 10 cm high) and a much more simple "marbel" or small ball (Ø = 15 - 20 mm). To get the marbel (in the can) in some slowly rounds (= less "rps") you first have to move this can in bigger circles (... moving by hand). But when the marbel has gotten some faster "drive", then suffice SMALLEST LINEAR MOVEMENTS (back & forth) to make the same marbel even MUCH MORE FASTER (= a lot of "rps"). 

That kind of "running marbel in the can" indeed seems partially extremly "magic" ! There in is the slings enigma to find (... of course in the sling itself too, but in a small can and marble under hands and eyes the same pricipal is more easy to handle, watch and study).


_____________________________________________________

Please help in english: Is "motion" absolutely synonym to "movement" ???

To quote myself:
"Very high speed, always increasing, and whipping into the final insane speed is exactly the "edge-of-control" helicopter (or Balearic or whatever)"

" the extra fast spin really does make a huge difference ! And you have to build up to that with acceleration"

"...note the long ranges reached by "extreme speed" slinging. The knack is getting the transition from ultimate, high-speed rotation to the throw"

"Look at a vid of Yurek slinging, with the slow build-up to a final hurricane-speed loop and throw"

""hurricane' style with accelerated multiple rotations is best for long distance, if you can get control. "

"I then took out sling 2, which I haven't used in a while-- a Rockman, long, from finger to opposite shoulder. It's a bit difficult to shoot; fig-8 is out of the question. You need to start it up with firm revolutions (otherwise the stone might slip the pouch-- disgrace), then build up to the hurricane revolutions, and the full-on release-- great energy, full-on whang. This is shooting the "longsling" the slinging equivalent of the longbow, the great war bow."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMBJ0sofwwU

Thearos wrote on Aug 25^th, 2017 at 2:39am:


But to fear (as to feel or to imagine) uncontrolled accidents (= fail-shots) and "uncertainty" is quite similar to each other (... if not even the same) - isn't it ?!!

What else could go wrong if not only the bullet?

But I know what you mean: High speed rotation can make confuse the "feeling of rhythm" even when I only try to whip a whipped cream by hand and much too fast (faster than usually or "learned"). Then often comes the moment of "right now" where brain no longer knows where the hand or spoon is (... "what time it is" ... or what the rhythm should be). That feeling partially is like to be a "spazzer".

With practice the brain (and / or body) can learn to control each frequences nevetheless - even the very high frequences up to 5 or 6 rps. But more than 3 or 3,5 rps already range in the upper class of difficulty because the resulting centrifugal force becomes so high that at least the body (arm / hand) has to capitulate when also the wight of bullet is much more than 120 g. 

And to the bullet 3 rps in a long sling is much more speed than 3 rps in a short sling - as twice as high if also the length is twice.

Nevertheless there is an upper limit in length-increasing because the "effect" at least also depends of the relation between length of sling and "extension": Extension is relative - so even an extension of 2,5 m can be only a short one if the length of sling is 2,0 m too.

Best effects for range comes from a high relation (should be more than 2 - means twice as long as length of sling), but also this has to be in a good relation to the advantage of a greater radius (circumference). Therefore the best length of sling is somewhere between 1,15 m and double length of an arm (2 x 67 cm = 1,34 m in case of mine - but not measured to finger-tips but to the "ring-place" of ringfinger because there hangs my loop).

But also the learning of higher rotation speeds runs better if the practice allways keeps assigned to a target because brain also learns from feed-back: It always has to "see": "When feeling X (while release) then the result is Y".

...

Only for dreams the brain computes "prophecies / forecasts" from absolutly free founded parameters. But for reality it computes "highbills" only, only from known parameters (= amounts). Therefore it has to have experience, real results (= facts) and feed-back if it also wants to be a good slinger and not only a good dreamer.

And "yes" - even the change from shorter slings to longer slings (... to slings of different length and "haptic") has to be trained and learnded, because a real "sling-master" lands the bullet even than in the best place when for that only a "shitty old belt" or string tanga is given to him.

This is why I also want to have practice with (different) "sheperd slings" and not only with (different) "hunter slings". So do never brake your turnus of practice because of having broken your "best sling" only. When your best sling is broken or lost then train with your "bad sling" again, but never interrupt the practice for much more than only two weeks.

Thearos wrote on Aug 25^th, 2017 at 5:06am:


Unfortunately I have to say the pain in your ellbow is a GOOD SIGN, because this indicates to have made a strong pull right against the pull of stone ... so in the correct moment. That's of course a conflict in moving-directions allways, but not to avoid (... mens arms anatomy isn't made right for this extreme contradiction).

Only the try to force the ellbows resistance evolution has absolutely to be avoid. In this case the PAIN, respectivley its smallest amount (and healing) has to be the "leader" in your range progression, because this evolution needs much more time than evolution of muscles.

Have allways a very close (carefully) watch at this pain but never call it a bad sign or an "enemy". Otherwise allready the range would become your enemy too.

Pull and keep ellbows pain in awareness / consciousness and handle it together with the range like a friend who has become a little bit ill - so start the ellbow to love (not the pain but the ellbow!), even when that special kind of care sounds a little bit like "esoteric hocus-pocus".

But now that I do not mean especially to you but "generally" (at all, of course).

Thearos wrote on Aug 25^th, 2017 at 11:31am:


you are too conscious of your aim. your aim is at the direction your center of mass is moving, for long distance focus more on perfect form.

find a safe place to practice long distance slinging so the safety of other beings doesn't prohibit your performance.