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Absolute maximum slinging length (Read 33591 times)
Thearos
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #120 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:39am
 
Without wishing to be inflammatory, I would like to say that I find distances of 400m with stones and 700m with special ammo difficult to believe (if these are the feats that Mr Apoc is claiming). My only reasons for saying this is that in my own slinging experience, which is very long though admittedly not distinguished by great skill, such distances are beyond imagining. 

On the other hand, I note that Mr Apoc's stones are the perfect weight (100+g) and shape, i.e. aerodynamics heavy "smashers" that retain their momentum, as Aussie once told me. Whenever I have slung with such stones, namely smooth "hand-fillers" that are a bit bigger than egg size (if I am correct), and that require courage and commitment to sling well, I have reached better results than usual for me. Mr Apoc's sling length is also recognizable as a very good length, perhaps the perect length, for power throwing over great distances. So who knows ? Perfect stone, perfect sling, extremely good technique, all would make for very impressive results.

What distances have people seen with the big guys slinging for fun on Menorca ?
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timpa
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #121 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 7:08pm
 
It sling I was throwing  about 300 meters, was exactly 1.3m/51inch. (ice and lake videos)
But the helicopter style, I do not have any chance. It succeeds only me pirouette.
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Thearos
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #122 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 7:33pm
 
I only sling helicopter. I do not know my maximum distance, but  by estimate would place it a bit over 100m (maybe 120m) with good stones and a long sling. This based on slinging at a cliff where I shoot at targets at known distances (25m, 40-45m, and 80 or so, where I already find it difficult to reach the target range and certainly have no great hopes for accuracy).
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #123 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 8:05pm
 
What length is your sling thearos?
I only started measuring distances in the last month and I'm getting around 100m out of stones of various sizes and my best measured shot was just short or 120 with a golfball. (I no longer use golfballs as I had a very scary rebound and put me off). I feel some shots were further but can't claim as I wasn't on flat ground or found stones or combination. My sling is only 27inch. Hoping to break into the 200m mark without increasing sling length.
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Thearos
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #124 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
I have a short sling (finger tip to elbow) for target practice and two bigger slings (finger tip to shoulder and finger tip to breastbone) for shots at distance
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Apex-apoc
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #125 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:20am
 
Thearos wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:39am:
On the other hand, I note that Mr Apoc's stones are the perfect weight (100+g) and shape, i.e. aerodynamics heavy "smashers" that retain their momentum, as Aussie once told me.


And I can not remember / repeat enough often that stones high rotation and a slings "sonic boom" is nothing else than wasted energy, although a very nice sound here or there. Take this waste away and your range will win up to 15 % more distance.

The differences between a "Hirtenschleuder" ("sheperd sling" - made for herding sheeps) and a "Jägerschleuder" ("hunters sling" - made for hunting or war) are also very important for an evaluation in remarked ranges.

When slinging stones I can't reach the 400-m-mark too with a sheperd sling. For this type of sling I also would say: "... is as much as impossible!" But while using a hunting sling (for humans) even more distance is possible, because my own (measured) "best range" was not only 400 but 443 m.

And of course are these 43 "extra meters" not only the mentioned "15 % extra distance from saved energy" but also a result of a flight that is much more "straight on" (what in lingo also means: "saved mouse-meters") than a flight along some "magnus effekt lines".

I know so called "birdies" (thrown stones that don't want to follow the trajectory-parabola but to follow some ghosty "lifters" or directions to the left side / right side) very well ... and that of course is "funny" too ... but while searching for range the same isn't funny at all but "scheiße" (= damnd).

Also when searching for more "hits on target" this unpredictable flightways are anything but "helpful" (especially when targets distance is far more than 50 m). Right then when slinging the helicopter style the flightway is very "unpredictibel" because the pouch than has a little "swinging" rotation and so a direction that never is known.
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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 9:36am by Apex-apoc »  
 
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #126 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:30am
 
That's interesting and I will admit I never thought about it but you can actually see the pouch twisting with thin cords.  I never thought about it affecting my accuracy due to it changing my release angle.

This might go a long way to explaining why I am more accurate with a braided sling than I am with a para cord sling.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #127 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:57am
 
@Apex-apoc what is the orientation of the spin(of the stone) with the "frictionless" sling when you throw? or you don't care?

jax used fins on some of his designs:http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1227069230/30

i need to try such sling to understand how much difference in spin there is.

could you upload pictures of your record slings? are they similar to jax's?

what is the difference in reload time?
relaxed and aiming i throw 5/min with normal split pouch
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Morphy
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #128 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:58am
 
Apex Ive noticed this as well. Good to know Im not crazy. This is one of the things that can make long distance target accuracy more difficult to understand that a simple formula.

Sometimes a stone coming out of the pouch at a slight angle other than straight will take a while to show the true effects of the release error. Many times Ive noticed this when switching from a target at 30 meters to around 50 and above. Suddenly my shots drift more to the left. Whereas at 30 they were hitting dead on.

Its similar to when you throw a shot with a ton of backspin and everything seems fine and suddenly the shot can arc sharply up. Although that is more to do with spin than angle, either way it tends to take a bit for the effect to come into play.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #129 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:04pm
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:30am:
why I am more accurate with a braided sling than I am with a para cord sling.


Generally this is correct, but also "para cord" isn't allways the same as "para cord" - there are offered better and lower qualities. I have (for example) bought a black round very fine and thin braiden yarn of polyester (12 strands and D = 1,0 mm) what is nevertheless incredible "stiff" or "resistent" against twisting. It is braiden by mashine and so braided very strong / dens but flexible nevertheless.

Looks like "para cord" (without pattern) but isn't one. It has no "sole" (germ.: "Seele" - in german so also is called the "core" of ropes or yarns - the same word as the "sole" of men) and can be bought by "kanirope" (rope factory in germany).

If you would braid with good braided yarns (instead of twistet yarns) than you would get a sling that is "extra-twist-resistant" and still thin.

Even when a sling is braided with five strands (flat) but from twisted strands while all strands are twisted in the same direction (clockwise or counterclockwise) then even the braid tends a little bit to wind down. This braid than is "twist-resistent" for only one direction. I mean "braiding" alone can't terminate any "drill" totaly.

Best way to make a braid "twist-resistant" for each direction is to braid a "tube" - a so called "coat braid" (with sole / core). When this is realy good braided but from twistet jute, wool, silk, hemp, sisal or linen then its twist-remembering has to be ereased by (multiple) watering and drying.

But when it is braided from twisted yarns of "plastic" (nylon, polyester or polypropylen ...), than the twist-remembering can only ereased with slow heating while a long time (2 - 3 hours up to 90° celsius - some more but even more slow when made of nylon because nylon keeps some water that begins to boil (boiling ?) if have not enough time to damp out).

So there also are offered some braiden ropes where its "bundels of monofilaments" are not twistet, because a rope of twisted strands allways keeps a little instabil against twisting down (= re-twisting / conter-twisting).

A special process of heating could also twisted plastic-yarns prevent from twisting down, but even that should be allready done by the factory because for "own's kitchen" this process is too awkward and difficult / sensible.



But you are right: There also are offered some "types" of "para cords" thats "twist-resistance" is very low. And "yes" - the accuracy of a sling can be very bad if its cords are braided too "sluffy". Therefore my tip for you: When not principal allergic against all "in-natural" high-tech materials then once in future also try a 2 or 2,5 mm thick "nylon line" what is stiff nearly like thin wire and made for mewing lawns.

Have you ever seen such nylon lines? It's neither twisted nor braiden nor woven but up to 4 mm thick and "strong as Harry" even when only 1,5 mm thick!

To get this fixed on leather-pouch is a little bit "tricky" (I must admit: "right very tricky") but when mastered this problem than it is the most perfect stuff for making the worlds best and most effective slings: Thin, light, elastic, hit-resistant, stone-resistant, light-resistant*, rott-resistant and EXTREMLY twist-resistant. It's almost like the RESISTANCE in its self.

But never forget: Also thick leather can be a wonderful fitting material for accuracy slings - as a sling (cords) it is only very sensible against water, rain and wet weather (fog).

_______________________________________________________________________________

* light-resistance of nylon is not totally as high as on polyester but nearly. For this the heat-resistance of nylon is a little bit higher as on polyester.
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« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:13pm by Apex-apoc »  
 
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Jaegoor
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #130 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm
 
Thearos ich sah in Palma Jaume Darder mit einer sehr kurzen  Sling 400m weit werfen. Darüber war ich damals sehr erstaunt.  Jaume ist ein Meister , ähnliche wie Luis , Juanjo Caballero und andere.
Ich selbst habe schon sehr hohe Distanzen geschossen. Mein bestes projektil war eine Blei Kugel . Diese war mit Glas überzogen.  Ich möchte die Ergebnisse aber nicht veröffentlichen.
Sind 700m möglich?  Definitiv ja. Ob ich glaube das Apex  diese Distanz erreichte ? Wenn ich es sehe , glaube ich es . Vorher eher nicht. Zuviel Gerede  über Hebel und dreh Geschwindigkeit. Wären sie ein Slinger wie sie es sagen, dann wären ihnen wichtige Faktoren bekannt. Diese nennen sie aber überhaupt nicht.
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Thearos
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #131 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:10am
 
Hallo Jaegoor,
wie habt ihr die Entfernung bei Jaumes Geschoss vermesst ? Oder ist das nur Ungefährliches ?

Tja, ich geb zu, dass, wenn ich auf dem Feld 700m anschaue (mein smart Handy hat eine Entfernungsmesser-app), fällt mir dies als eine wirklich unglaubliche lange Entfernung.

Gehe jetzt schleudern, ohne Technik, rohe Steine, 25m Zielentfernung. Nur Amateurisches.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #132 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:24am
 
from google translate, Jaegoor :
Quote:
Thearos I saw in Palma Jaume Darder with a very short Sling 400m far throw. I was very surprised at that time. Jaume is a master, similar to Luis, Juanjo Caballero and others.
I myself have already shot very high distances. My best projectil was a lead ball. This was covered with glass. I do not want to publish the results.
Are 700m possible? Definitely yes. Whether I believe the Apex reached this distance? When I see it, I believe it. Previously not. Too much talk about lever and speed. If they were a Slinger as they say, then important factors would be known to them. But they do not call them at all.


@Jaegoor since you  witnessed a 400m throw with a short sling then why didn't you believe Apex apoc in the first place?

Jaegoor wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Wären sie ein Slinger wie sie es sagen, dann wären ihnen wichtige Faktoren bekannt.


I'm self taught, with a mentor or a teacher i would be in 6 months where i'm now in 6 years.If important factors are known to you why not share them?no one is born with knowledge.
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Jaegoor
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #133 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:50am
 
Thearos . Wir brauchten nicht messen. Wir schossen 2009 auf seinem Grundstück . Daran grenzte weitere Grundstücke. Überall waren Obstbäume.  Alle Grundstücke waren durch eine niedrige typische mallorqine Stein Mauer von einander getrennt. Die Größe der Grundstücke war gleich und bekannt. Er traff eine der Mauern . Der Einschlag war gut erkennbar.

Parmenion. Ich teilte mein Wissen hier bereits recht häufig.  Doch immer wieder kommen die gleichen Diskussionen.  Das ist ermüdend.  Die Fragen nach verschiedenen Stilen . Immer wieder. Doch wo sind die Ergebnisse?
Ein Professor in Deutschland erklärte mir, das man mit einer Schleuder rein rechnerisch keine fliegende Ziele treffen könne.  Er erklärte es sehr genau.  Es war logisch. Aber es stimmte nicht. Menschen vor mir haben es getan. Ich kann es, andere könnten es auch. Der Professor war mit einigen Studenten bei mir zu Besuch. Ich zeigte es ihm. Bei der Gelegenheit traf ich eine fliegende Flasche . Es brauchte einige Versuche, doch ich schaffte es. Seitdem trainiere ich es gelegentlich.
Ich stelle die Aussage von Apex nicht grundsätzliche in Frage. Doch ich möchte es sehen. Bei seiner Beschreibung fehlen wichtige Faktoren. Wären sie ihm bekannt, dann würde er wissen, das die Rotationgeschwindigkeit der Schleuder nicht der wichtigste Faktor für Distanz oder Power ist. Es ist ist nur ein Teil. Deshalb wäre ein Video gut. Nicht um zu beweisen das er tatsächlich diese Distanz zu schießen vermag. Nur um zu sehen wie routiniert er im Umgang mit der Schleuder wirklich ist. Tongue
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #134 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:26am
 
Jaegoor wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Zuviel Gerede  über Hebel und dreh Geschwindigkeit. Wären sie ein Slinger wie sie es sagen, dann wären ihnen wichtige Faktoren bekannt. Diese nennen sie aber überhaupt nicht.


Gut - es fällt allmählich auf, dass Sie mich nicht leiden können und / oder lediglich beleidigt sind, denn die Anmerkung, dass ich die "wichtig(er)en" Faktoren überhaupt nicht nennen würde - Hebel, Schleuderlängen und (Rotations-) Geschwindigkeiten also unwichtig wären - kann erstens mal schon aus Sicht eines Laien nur der komplette Unsinn sein, und zweitens nennen Sie die angeblich noch viel wichtigeren Gründe noch im gleichen Post und Atemzug ebenfalls NICHT.

Das heißt, Sie reden hier nur ganz ausgsprochen "trotzig", also allein um der Besserwisserei und Widerrede willen.

Gehen Sie mal auf Ihre eigene Website - dort erinnert Sie nämlich ihr eigener Text daran, dass Sie die "Hebelwirkung von Hebeln (an Schleudern)" bereits selbst hervorgehoben haben:

https://fundamittere.jimdo.com/funda-mentale-fragen-und-antworten/

Also reißen Sie sich nun einfach mal ein bisschen zusammen. "Unwichtig" sind in diesem Zusammenhang wohl eher Ihre "Grundstücksmauern auf La Paloma", die zwar nie gemessen worden sein sollen, aber alle den selben Abstand zueinander hätten. Doch tatsächlich noch viel unwichtiger ist, ob eine Bleikugel mit Glas überzogen worden ist und / oder ob Sie Ihre Schleuderweiten damit ab sofort oder demnächst geheimhalten möchten.

Ob Sie im Spessart, am Strand der Nordsee oder "bei den Meistern" auf den Balearen schleudern / werfen, ist für eine zu erzielende Wurfweite defacto noch viel unwichtiger.

Also bitte WAS reden SIE hier zusammen?

Ich erkenne inzwischen recht gut, wie Sie ticken: Sie fürchten ganz einfach um die baldige Relativierung ihres Titels, der da so schön "Deutscher Schleudermeister" lauten sollte, in Wirklichkeit aber nur von Ihnen selbst "produziert" worden ist und darum schon ohnehin kaum mehr als ein "Wackelpeter" war.

Meine Posts stellen Ihre völlig frei erfundene Kompetenz und "Lehrlizenz" infrage - nicht wahr?!! Sie vermögen in mir nur ihren "GEGNER" zu sehen.
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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am by Apex-apoc »  
 
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