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Absolute maximum slinging length (Read 33588 times)
yonderstone
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #105 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:12am
 
That the burden of proof falls upon the person making the claim is not a new idea, in philosophy, science, and law this is the case. Russell's teapot is a common analogy to support this point, where Bertrand Russell wrote that if he were to claim that a teapot was in orbit around the sun in between Earth and Mars that he could not expect his claim to be believed since it could not be proven.

Britannica.com has a nice short summery on the principle of falsifiability if you are up for a quick read:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/criterion-of-falsifiability

It is also taught in most basic level science classes here in the United States. I am happy to provide more evidence to support this assertion, if you like.

Your turn.
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Apex-apoc
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #106 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:21am
 
yonderstone wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:12am:
It is also taught in most basic level science classes here in the United States.


This all I know allready. But where is the required proof for it?

Simply to say "it is simply the case, philosophy or fact" makes sense in no way!

"Hitchens razor" is no jota sharper than razor foam! In principal he said only: "You have to proof your claim and mine I have not!"
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yonderstone
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #107 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:32am
 
So what kind of evidence would be satisfactory for you? Would you like me to provide citations? Quotes? Where do you draw the line? (especially for something that you claim to already know) Christopher Hitchens did not come up with this principle, and I'm not sure why you are bringing him into this conversation.

In the case of your slinging, it seems to me that the members of this forum who have responded to you have asked for video or something. Everyone is crowding around ready to salute and admire you if what you are saying is true.

If you are so skeptical of the entire idea of falsifiability as a basis for accepting claims, then you should be understanding of the folks here being skeptical of your claims about being able to accomplish these kinds of slinging feats.

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Mersa
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #108 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 5:09am
 
In regards to the topics title. As long as you can personally weild without effecting results.
In regards to apex and his claim, I hope that what you say is true. I love slinging and this would be a great feat. Without anymore evidence it will remain unknown.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #109 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 5:38am
 
Mersa wrote on Aug 15th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
With all the numbers that have been thrown out there all of it really means squat. All that we get out of the STATIC equations are minimums in perfect conditions which makes the numbers seem even more outstanding.

I agree footage can be manipulated and make things that are false seem real. So can theoretical physics


It's a little forthright to throw all calculation out of the window. None of the equations I've posted are static(?) they apply in dynamic situations. Whether they deliver minimums or perfect conditions (also maximums, approximations etc) are up for debate and reasoned argument, not subject to arbitrary rejection.

The challenge is getting the physics right, or getting a good model approximating the reality as close as possible.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #110 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 6:07am
 
JudoP wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 5:38am:
The challenge is getting the physics right, or getting a good model approximating the reality as close as possible.


Maybe a larger number of "drawings" (sorted like 12 steps or 24 frames in a flipbook) could answer the question for origin of the secret "factor" (or "top speed"). I mean the mystik turn, lever or moment(um) has to be hidden somewhere in the watchable turn, and what is hidden, that also has to be "trekable into daylight".

I think I will try this to draw anewed in the months of winter: Each step / frame must show a pair (or couple) of propotional "true" vectors (of force) and than show, where or how they get changed while forming (more and more) the ellipse.

It's a shame, to sling stones with the sling for a lot of decades - respectivley millenia - but not to know how and why it works. It seems the "slingshotter" knows her physiks better.
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johan
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #111 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 6:58am
 
@JudoP http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1502880716/0#0
i hope this answers how your comparison(reply #93) is wrong
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #112 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 7:47am
 
johan wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 6:58am:
@JudoP http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1502880716/0#0
i hope this answers how your comparison(reply #93) is wrong

I've added a reply on the new thread.

Already saw the error in #93 as per my last post  Smiley
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timpa
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #113 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 12:41pm
 
Please, can you make such a video as Yurek does?




This would be really important for the whole sling culture. If you can throw so fast and 700m, it would be important to document it! It should not be a legend.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #114 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:52pm
 
@timpa:

Ahaaa! I allready known this video, but I haven't known that "Mr. Jugas" is "Yurek".

But "Yurek" also is "Jerzy Gasperowicz", or not???

Unfortunately I am not abel to make videos, but I have a friend working in an advertising agency. Perhaps he is allowed some day to take some "equipment" for making a video of a 700-m-throwing. But how is such a distance to catch on camera?

I like the video where you were slinging balls of steel on a frozen see and where "squeaks" are recorded (and no squeak if balls reached the opposite shore).
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« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2017 at 4:23am by Apex-apoc »  
 
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timpa
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #115 - Aug 17th, 2017 at 12:29pm
 
Thanks A-a!
I was thinking of the same problem (catch on camera). There were only two solutions: a new ice and a calm lake. And of these I did the videos.
But also Yurek's metal bridge is one solution.

Yes, Yurek/Jerzy/Jugas are the same person.
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yonderstone
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #116 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 2:28am
 
It would have to be a good sized lake for a 700m shot! Even if we couldn't see it land, it would be awesome just to see the technique and the sheer speed/force of the shot. It's really quite exciting to consider.
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #117 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
@Apex-apoc
you have described the sling you used to throw tungsten balls 700m.
But what sling and what shape of stones did you use for the 400m throw?
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #118 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 7:26pm
 
johan wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 4:22pm:
But what sling and what shape of stones did you use for the 400m throw?


Sling: "Instant release sling" (germ.: Jagdschleuder) - Lenght: 1,26 m or 1,34 m (for stones I had two of them - one with braiden waxed linen cords and one with braiden polyester cords and clear perlon line).

Stones: 110 - 130 g / 40 - 46 mm - Shape: "nearly round and smooth like balls" (the 15 best of my collection).

Best (measured) range while using a "normal" sling (which gives the stones high rotation) was 361 m in a distance of 23 m beside the "target" (this kind of target was a 350-m-mark in form of a peg).

If I throw with a "Jagdschleuder" I mostly bring the stones much closer to the mark, even when the distance / target is a 400-m-mark. So I use the normal type of sling only for some practice in "using this type" and for shorter distance (up to 125 m).
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« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:11pm by Apex-apoc »  
 
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Re: Absolute maximum slinging length
Reply #119 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
yonderstone wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 4:32am:
Christopher Hitchens did not come up with this principle, and I'm not sure why you are bringing him into this conversation.


Because of this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor ; ... and it's signifcant similarity with your cited "maxime".
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