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Political Correctness (Read 1842 times)
Morphy
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Political Correctness
Apr 17th, 2017 at 2:27pm
 
So, this may be one of those topics that is too hot to talk about. I hope not though. I would love to hear your opinions on our modern day politically correct culture. Do you feel like it is  good, bad? Are you indifferent?

For myself I see some good in it. But I also see it can easily be used as a form of opinion/thought control.

Do you think we will eventually have sort of a backlash against it and become overly blunt? What say you?
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"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotism." -Aristotle
 
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 9:44pm
 
You know that this is why the Alt Right and the AntiFa are trying to kill each other?

Free speech is getting trampled by both sides.

If you label someone as a "Liberal" or "Nazi", then it's politically correct to silence them.  Once they have the label, you can take their rights.
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #2 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 12:11am
 
What Bill said.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #3 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 5:55am
 
yep Bill pretty much nailed it.
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #4 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 1:52pm
 
Everyone is swinging further and further towards their side which are made out more and more to be polar opposites. Brexit, Trump... "Either you're with us or against us!"
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Morphy
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #5 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 2:34pm
 
The only silver lining I can see is that it seems like the more fear of going against the politically correct "official party line" the more of a grass roots ground swell we are starting to see in opposition to it. I am against it as well, but maybe some good will come out of it if it causes people to think.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #6 - Apr 19th, 2017 at 12:36pm
 
You aren't holding your breath while waiting for people to start thinking are you?

I'm getting cynical in my old age.  And scared. 

I have read a lot of the histories about the lead up to the English Civil War, the American Revolution, the US Civil War, the lead up to the 1st and 2nd World Wars and a bunch of others. 

It seems like the first step is to always polarize the sides and the next step is to stop any dialog between them.  And it's not just the US with the NeverTrumps and the AntiFa and the AltRights, it seems to be spreading all over the freaking planet.  France, Britain, Germany, China, Russia, India, Nigeria, they all seem to be redeveloping extreme nationalism again.  And if you are breathing a sigh of relief that your country isn't going nuts, look at your neighbors.

And when this kind of stuff happens, it seems like people just shut down thinking and start to follow blindly anyone who promises safety.

Our events are not quite the same as those but they seem to be moving in that direction.  And unlike the last global war, it won't take as many players this time around to kill way more people.

I will freely admit that I am worried and I don't have a clue what to do.
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Morphy
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #7 - Apr 19th, 2017 at 1:39pm
 
I've always been an odd balance of cynical and hopeful. My hope is in the long, long term. And in God. My cynicism goes even beyond what I think is almost an inevitable global conflict. My cynicism and my gut tells me that if there is another global war it is not just a series of random accidents.  I won't even bother going into that. People have such a hard time with certain topics. It goes back to what you were saying. The need of so many to emotionally invest in a topic to the point of picking a side and not just closing ones ears to the other side but viewing them as less than human. The need to feel right even more than to be right. I enjoy discussing these topics but so many don't bother with a rational rebuttal they go straight to name calling. I don't think you should live in anxiety for the future though. None of us are getting out of this life alive lol.
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"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotism." -Aristotle
 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #8 - Apr 19th, 2017 at 4:49pm
 
Hmm, think we have different ideas of what political correctness is.

over here it's often tied in with health and safety stopping kids doing stuff I did as a kid. That said, some of the stuff i did as a kid - probably should be stopped. Just because I never got caught - doesn't mean it wasn't me  whistle

Political correctness isn't usually associated with actual politics.

That said it is associated with a lack of common sense - and so is most politics.

There's no global war looming. Worst case scenario china and the us nuke north korea. War ended.

Best case scenario, china nukes north korea. Okay it's not great for north or south koreans. But it saves the rest of us, and china and the us don't get into a pissing competition about who nuked what first.

There is no getting round the fact that The united states currently has the maddest dictator in the world. Kim jong un could simply be jealous of trumps prowess at lying and his ability to just get away with stuff by blaming someone else for doing something totally unrelated.

'Why do you want to see my tax returns when hilary deleted email.' HUH ?
No actual connection.

To be honest america worries me a helluva lot more than north korea at the moment.
North koreans had no choice in their leader. America PICKED theirs and nobody had guns to their heads.

That said I definitely passed into the twilight zone sometime last june.
I live in hope that I will return to my real dimension/quantum universe any day now. Please let it  happen soon.... 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #9 - Apr 19th, 2017 at 10:39pm
 
But he's really not that bad. I mean, compared to other politicians. Under the previous presidency we had an attorney general who said he could execute americans without a trial and that was still "due process", a tax agency that targeted rival political organizations and a major piece of legislation that affected the lives of every American passed by one political party against the majority of american opinion. Compared to that Trump's actions seem tame and bipartisan.

But the issue is not fact but perception and the left here agrees with C_A, that he's a dangerous dictator. And they are practicing violence. It was not a full fledged riot, but it's the first time in my lifetime we've had unrest and mass arrests at inauguration.

Then last weekend we saw group v group fighting. It wasn't a "battle" but it wasn't just rowdiness either. They were legitimately trying to win a group v group confrontation and that's damn dangerous. I'm not worried about WWIII, I am worried about a civil war a-la-kosovo. It starts with the extremes and then bit by bit the rest get dragged in and forced to take sides. I hope and I pray that it doesn't get worse but my gut tells me bleeding kansas v2.0 is just around the bend...
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #10 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 6:51am
 
Quote:
Then last weekend we saw group v group fighting. It wasn't a "battle" but it wasn't just rowdiness either. They were legitimately trying to win a group v group confrontation and that's damn dangerous. I'm not worried about WWIII, I am worried about a civil war a-la-kosovo. It starts with the extremes and then bit by bit the rest get dragged in and forced to take sides. I hope and I pray that it doesn't get worse but my gut tells me bleeding kansas v2.0 is just around the bend...


yeah that's a definite possibility.
I've never known any other political situaton where the winners are - if anything - more bitter and partisan than the losers.

Here's what i call a twilight zone moment: Quote:
But he's really not that bad.

He's broken so many laws/rules I've lost count. There are laws stopping presidents appointing their relatives to important posts in the government.
Apparently they don't apply to trump. He's done it and nobody has stopped him noidea

This is where the dictator line comes in. He constantly does things that the american constitution and laws forbid. And there are never any consequences and he's not stopped. Those are the actions of a dictator.

Now given what's just happened in turkey - another twilight zone moment - where turkey just voted in their president as 'el presidente for life'.
Does anyone else see this happening in the states ?
The 2x 4 year term thing is part of the constitution, so no reason trump can't simply ignore it and declare himself president for life. Given what he's done already - who'd stop him ?

You might think it's unlikely - but this is the twilight zone and impossible things are happening all the time.

You can even excuses kim jong un in a way. From birth he was raised like an ancient egyptian pharoe. To believe he was a living god and people worshipped him.  And when he got to the age where he understood what was going on around him - what do you know:, it was all true.
So his actions and behaviour were programmed into him from a very early age.
It's a nature versus nurture situation.
Trump is like he is by Nature.
And that's always more worrying.
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #11 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 7:48am
 
Not being contrary or baiting you here, but can you give me a fairly neutral source for illegal actions by Trump?

I stopped following very closely because the sources were always so eager to land on Trump that they always made categorical errors. Like claiming that controlling immigration more tightly was constitutionally forbidden, when it's well established in law that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights by definition.

Here's the more scary part from your POV: Trump is going to get re-elected. He's going to do so with a majority of the popular vote this time. Because he's a moderate populist. And again, the previous administration did things that were really beyond the pale and nothing happened. The danger with Trump is the crazy is hardening.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #12 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 11:26am
 
Quote:
but can you give me a fairly neutral source for illegal actions by Trump?

bbc, reuters
And pretty much any and every news source that was considered reputable until trump saw somethig he didn't like and declared it fake news. 

Not that there are any neutral sources for trump. If something he doesn't like is reported - then it's a fake news source.

These are all sign of a dictator in making.
What i say is true, and if anyone says otherwise - then they are lying and I shall smite them.

The 1500 lawsuits against him (45 still active) would suggest - at the very least - a touching acquaintance with the wrong side of the law.

But go look up members of his family given political posts. It's probably the simplest one and the easiest to verify.

News release by kellyanne conway: 'Best News of the Day. Trump Son-in-Law Jared Kushner to Be Named Senior White House Adviser.
As I understand it - that's illegal.
It's blatant nepotism.  
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #13 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 12:56pm
 
I follow BBC regularly (though its standards have slipped markedly the last decade) and it like most of the media has made factual errors while trying to nail Trump. BBC had front page news for the better part of a week about hate crimes up after the election, but it turns out that was the media...stretching. There was not data to support it when it was reported, and the violence was actually (and is) still stemming mainly from the left.

I'm not really interested in chasing the son in law thing down, though if you give me a specific good article on it, I'll happily read it.

But that's part of what concerns me. We've gone from "too many to keep track of" to "well here's the one thing you can research", that's part of why the crazies on the right are hardening. People who lean left (and most of the international community) foam at the mouth about how bad he is, but when it comes to good reporting and discussion of specifics they flounder a bit. Partially because none of us have perfect memories and partly because it feels so true and so many people agree that we skip the harder work of reasoning. And that leads to the bigger problem, we're getting more and more into groups who already agree and not taking the time to carefully reason outside that group.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Political Correctness
Reply #14 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 9:27pm
 
Here's what I consider to be a neutral look at Trump's nepotism, with an explanation of why it's likely not illegal. https://www.bustle.com/p/is-nepotism-illegal-ivanka-trumps-white-house-job-still...

I've said for a while, we're in a post-truth world. It started when the media began to be seen as taking sides, returning to the subjectivity and sensationalism (click bait) of the yellow journalism from the turn of the 20th century. The story changed based on who was telling it. Then we weaponized fact checkers, eroding confidence in them as watchdogs. Did you notice that both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump had fact checkers on their campaign websites during the debates last year? They both had objective proof that they were right and the other was a liar. Beyond that, though, sites like politifact give markedly different ratings to basically the same statements depending on the political affiliation of the person speaking. And that same trend towards subjective interpretation of "fact" was shown by the IRS in their targeting of organizations for having the wrong political affiliations. Implicit biases led us to fake news and alternative facts, fueled by the hyperpartisan sound bites that political campaigns have been floating on social media to energize the voting base. Trump didn't start fake news, the news hasn't been news for a long time. I think Trump (and Clinton) are just calling them out on their manipulations.
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« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:56pm by Masiakasaurus »  

Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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