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Of tennis balls and spin (Read 4112 times)
HeavyHanded
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Of tennis balls and spin
Mar 22nd, 2016 at 8:03am
 
I apologize if this has already been covered (and probably has to extent), but I couldn't find good info with a search.

Have been getting better of late though still weak on accuracy am at least able to confine my shots to a general compass heading. Have been mostly using tennis balls and have noticed that I can effect spin by changing the rake angle of my hand upon release, from a top spin to spinning on its axis like a bullet (more or less). The tennis balls make it fairly easy to tell the spin by observing how they roll as they hit the ground, and also watching the path in flight.

By my observation, it seems that I can shift the spin to everything but a true backspin. My guess to achieve this I'd have to release from the bottom of my hand somehow, unless I'm overlooking something.

I realize as the weight increases and size decreases to slinging rocks, the effect of spin and how the shot moves through the air will be less notable compared to a tennis ball, just wondering if anyone else has figured this out.

Thanks,
Martin
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #1 - Mar 22nd, 2016 at 8:46pm
 
There have been many discussions about spin.  And all sorts of ways to take advantage of it.

For what it's worth, spin is why biconals work so well for distance.
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Toby
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #2 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 2:40am
 
Stones mostly do not spin, as they slip out of the pouch, where tennisballs roll out the pouch. There are some slomo videos here from that guy with the black long coat. I forgot the name  Roll Eyes.
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #3 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 6:19am
 
Toby wrote on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 2:40am:
Stones mostly do not spin


Huh   they spin a lot. 

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HeavyHanded
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #4 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:04am
 
For now I'm just going to work on getting it to spin reliably along a horizontal plane like a bullet.

I have no idea how well this will translate to stones but it certainly works for the biconal projectiles, as pointed out. Am not sure the same tweaks that shift spin on a tennis ball will work quite the same on a stone, and I get very little time practicing with heavier shot.

Also going to be a lot harder to tell whats going on - tennis ball can be observed hooking and how it bounces as it lands.

Martin

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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #5 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:29am
 
HeavyHanded wrote on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:04am:
spin reliably along a horizontal plane like a bullet.


for easiness we call it "spiral"  or "rifle spin"

HeavyHanded wrote on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:04am:
I have no idea how well this will translate to stones


yes i had problem transfering from stone to tennis ball so vice versa you'll have too

HeavyHanded wrote on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:04am:
tennis ball can be observed hooking and how it bounces as it lands.


the same happens to stones.
you'll probably even hear the difference between a spiral and a backspin,sidespin etc except if you use smooth round stones.
I use elongated stones, so i can see and hear the difference.  Wink

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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #6 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 7:30am
 
a clean vertical overhand release gives backspin.
Tilt your arm/hand to the left or right and you can curve the missile either way.
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HeavyHanded
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #7 - Mar 23rd, 2016 at 9:20am
 
Quote:
a clean vertical overhand release gives backspin.
Tilt your arm/hand to the left or right and you can curve the missile either way.


This is what I was working toward, especially after looking at the pumpkin chucking trebuchets and how they induce a backspin. Imagined an Apache style release would maybe work most reliably.

Gonna have to put that on the backburner for a few, I'm just getting my Balearic release down and currently stink pretty bad with figure 8 and Apache.
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #8 - Mar 24th, 2016 at 3:56am
 
For rifle spin anything side arm is your best bet, especially Balearic.
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HeavyHanded
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #9 - Mar 24th, 2016 at 6:30am
 
I'm getting pretty good results from the Balearic tradition currently.

Am finally to the point where mentally instead of concentrating on my form the whole time, timing my release, step forward, how the cords are held,  I now am just thinking "throw!".

This forum is a great resource, thanks to all.
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #10 - Mar 24th, 2016 at 4:44pm
 
If you taper your pouch to be fat at the retention cord and thin at the release it will increase the spin.
I also will say if you find flattish trapezoid shaped stones they will not only spin on their axis but the trapezoid shape will literally perform a corkscrew pattern in the air if you impart enough spin. Totally cool effect
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #11 - Mar 24th, 2016 at 5:31pm
 
Most slinging styles can rifle perfectly. I won't say all cus that implies I have a lot of experience with them all. I can say most though. Figure 8, Balearic, even Apache. If done correctly it all works just fine.
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #12 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:14am
 
Alright, I could use more help from the experts and speculation from non experts is also welcome.

Doing about 90% of my slinging practice is with tennis balls and am getting reasonably not terrible. My shots when driven with force tend to drift low and left. With a touch less force they run nearly straight.

I recently was out of town for work, and the site I was at had a large unfinished back lot loaded with smooth river valley stones and populated with derelict machine parts etc - perfect for practice on the occasional break.

When slinging stones with force, my shots were consistently drifting high and to the right, the exact opposite of my tennis ball placement. Again, with less force they tend to run straight.

Any thoughts about what effect I'm dealing with and/or how to tame it?

Thanks,
Martin
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #13 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 9:29am
 
HeavyHanded wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:14am:
When slinging stones with force, my shots were consistently drifting high and to the right, the exact opposite of my tennis ball placement. Again, with less force they tend to run straight.

Any thoughts about what effect I'm dealing with and/or how to tame it?


the only thing i can think of is that moving from light(tennis ball) to heavy (stones) will make you release early. if you are right handed and throw overhand that means high and right.

but you said drifting, there are many variables(shape,spin,angle of attack) so i dont know
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Re: Of tennis balls and spin
Reply #14 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 12:33pm
 
I have a lot more experience with Balearic style but i have practiced a decent amount with figure eight and several other types of over hand styles. That being said, i agree with Parmenion in that a heavier projectile will cause you to release earlier and that can be fixed with slinging more with heavier ammo (its fairly simple but it works best) However there are several ways for you to fix firing to one side, the best way to fix it (in my opinion) is to turn your entire body to the left or the right. For instance, your firing to the left so you turn to the right a bit. You'll still be firing to the left but the target will be to the left so it wont matter. That way you aren't messing around with the style that you've worked hard to learn and perfect. As for firing high or low i haven't figured out a better way to fix an early release or a late release than just trial and error. Typically one can range in their release after a few shots. Sorry i couldn't help more on the matter but a lot of the things that you learn in slinging are very, very specific to you. Good Luck and i hope this helps. Smiley
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