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Chiaraje question (Read 5707 times)
Tomas
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #15 - Feb 14th, 2016 at 8:08pm
 
I totally agree thearos, most of them are probably friends and would never really want to hurt each other
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RS
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #16 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:42pm
 
i know this is an old discussion, but not all cultures that had slings or a military that used slings were slinging cultures.  like being in the military and carrying a rifle doesn't make one a sniper, a soldier carrying a sling doesn't make one a slinger.   

there are some signs that could point to groups of the native americans having slings but not qualified slingers.  some had use for slings in military actions, but no known stories of hunting with them or ever using them outside of a group in a combat setting.  and uniform clay balls, could be s sign of relative slinging newbie soldiers having ammo placement problems.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #17 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
but it would be fun to have a hundred people on each side deep into a bottle of wine with ten tennis balls a piece waging war...come on you know it would be fun, bruises and all.
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Morphy
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #18 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 8:24pm
 
Sounds incredibly painful.  Grin
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #19 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:28am
 
how could you define someone carrying a sling yet not be a slinger ?
You don't carry something you can't use.

If they're carrying a sling in a primitive culture, then it's because you can use it.

The thing about historical references is that unless they are made by the culture itself, they are always suspect.

The amerindians didn't write anything down, and if they had something so ordinary and mundane as hunting with a sling - would most likely not have been mentioned.

The important thing is that you don't carry something you can't use Smiley 

And yep -a bunch of people with sockballs all slinging at each other is great fun Thumbs Up
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #20 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 7:26am
 
RS wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:42pm:
i know this is an old discussion, but not all cultures that had slings or a military that used slings were slinging cultures.  like being in the military and carrying a rifle doesn't make one a sniper, a soldier carrying a sling doesn't make one a slinger.   

there are some signs that could point to groups of the native americans having slings but not qualified slingers.  some had use for slings in military actions, but no known stories of hunting with them or ever using them outside of a group in a combat setting.  and uniform clay balls, could be s sign of relative slinging newbie soldiers having ammo placement problems.   


I think even experienced slingers will settle for uniform ammo. To get good consistency it's a must. Different shaped ammo flies different each time due to aerodynamics. With different shaped ammo you could throw and release exactly the same twice but still have different trajectories. This effect should be minimized as much as possible and its only possible through uniform ammo.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #21 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 2:01pm
 
RS, what did you mean about uniform clay balls being a sign of newbie soldiers with ammo placement problems? Can you elaborate?
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #22 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 5:52pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:28am:
how could you define someone carrying a sling yet not be a slinger ?
You don't carry something you can't use.

If they're carrying a sling in a primitive culture, then it's because you can use it.

The thing about historical references is that unless they are made by the culture itself, they are always suspect.

The amerindians didn't write anything down, and if they had something so ordinary and mundane as hunting with a sling - would most likely not have been mentioned.

The important thing is that you don't carry something you can't use Smiley 

And yep -a bunch of people with sockballs all slinging at each other is great fun Thumbs Up


some suggest they only used them in warfare.   perhaps some used them for herding llamas, idk, there is nothing to support that.  and other than the horse killing story, not much to express how good they were in warfare.  whether they de-evolved in sling use, after they brought it over when crossing the bering strait or atlantis or where ever, depending on ur notions, or got here and evolved into sling use, idk that either. but they did have slings, and looms and spindles, but no working wheel, so im not sure if the idea for slings came with them or evolved separately but like they did in other places....or perhaps it was like is some euro cultures....in which case the leadership(mr. inca) understood the potential of slings, so not many people got to use them.  so they were kept up until time of need, only allowing for enough use otherwise to know how to do a basic operation of it.   but one thing is for sure, most slinging cultures had stories, orally passed or otherwise, of slinging tales.  they have none to my limited knowledge.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #23 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:01pm
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 7:26am:
RS wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:42pm:
i know this is an old discussion, but not all cultures that had slings or a military that used slings were slinging cultures.  like being in the military and carrying a rifle doesn't make one a sniper, a soldier carrying a sling doesn't make one a slinger.   

there are some signs that could point to groups of the native americans having slings but not qualified slingers.  some had use for slings in military actions, but no known stories of hunting with them or ever using them outside of a group in a combat setting.  and uniform clay balls, could be s sign of relative slinging newbie soldiers having ammo placement problems.   


I think even experienced slingers will settle for uniform ammo. To get good consistency it's a must. Different shaped ammo flies different each time due to aerodynamics. With different shaped ammo you could throw and release exactly the same twice but still have different trajectories. This effect should be minimized as much as possible and its only possible through uniform ammo.


no not really.  my rocks go straight no matter their shape.  the laws of mass, weight(density) of ur average slinging rock and resistance of air would dictate that under normal condition, unless a rock is very flat and round, thus given to lift at high speeds, it does not matter if it is spherical, triangle rectangle or square or whatever, once in flight it will not change it's course but will go straight.  if however you are saying that when leaving the socket different shapes will exit differently causing the shot to go in a direction not intended, because of it not sitting right in the socket, that is exactly what i was saying, ammo placement...if that is a problem with novice and inexperienced slingers, uniform ammo is the solution.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #24 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 6:15pm
 
ps.  i was thinking about using golfballs or racketballs...but did you see the 2018 video i think it was where the guy was on the ground knocked senseless and the other side was hitting him with slings while he lay there?..too funny.  his side had to organize a charge and get him back.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #25 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
Sorry RS I'm calling BS on that.
What is an average sling stone??
Aerodynamics exist and play a role in accuracy of all projectiles. To say slingstones are exempt to this is just wrong.
The effects may be minimal over shorter distances but they're there.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #26 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:40pm
 
Mersa wrote on Feb 8th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Sorry RS I'm calling BS on that.
What is an average sling stone??
Aerodynamics exist and play a role in accuracy of all projectiles. To say slingstones are exempt to this is just wrong.
The effects may be minimal over shorter distances but they're there.


1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs.

Density is defined as mass per unit volume.

the more mafic a rock is, the greater its density.

ur average rock one u would sling,  in weight and volume.  some rocks are more porous than others.  what is ur average stone by mass divided by volume?

"Newton's first law states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force. This is normally taken as the definition of inertia. The key point here is that if there is no net force acting on an object (if all the external forces cancel each other out) then the object will maintain a constant velocity. If that velocity is zero, then the object remains at rest. If an external force is applied, the velocity will change because of the force.

The second law explains how the velocity of an object changes when it is subjected to an external force. The law defines a force to be equal to change in momentum (mass times velocity) per change in time. Newton also developed the calculus of mathematics, and the "changes" expressed in the second law are most accurately defined in differential forms. (Calculus can also be used to determine the velocity and location variations experienced by an object subjected to an external force.) For an object with a constant mass m, the second law states that the force F is the product of an object's mass and its acceleration a:

F = m * a

For an external applied force, the change in velocity depends on the mass of the object. A force will cause a change in velocity; and likewise, a change in velocity will generate a force. The equation works both ways.

The third law states that for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, if object A exerts a force on object B, then object B also exerts an equal force on object A. Notice that the forces are exerted on different objects. The third law can be used to explain the generation of lift by a wing and the production of thrust by a jet engine."

plus, what is shorter distances?
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #27 - Feb 8th, 2018 at 8:42pm
 
iow's ..most likely under normal conditions,  the effects are not really there.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #28 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:28am
 
Das mit denn Steinen ist quatsch. Es gibt in Palma wenige Schützen die tatsächlich alles schießen was sie aufheben. Und sie treffen damit. Egal welches Gewicht und welche Form . Für das Jagen ist dies nur zweitrangig. Oft ist hier eine Distanz bis maximal zwanzig Meter . Glatte und gleichmäßige Steine mit bevorzugtem Gewicht sind toll . Aber nicht überall zu finden. Projektile aus Ton oder Blei , machen in großen Armeen Sinn. Bei kleineren Gruppen nicht.
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Re: Chiaraje question
Reply #29 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 6:55am
 
Quote:
no not really.  my rocks go straight no matter their shape.  the laws of mass, weight(density) of ur average slinging rock and resistance of air would dictate that under normal condition, unless a rock is very flat and round, thus given to lift at high speeds, it does not matter if it is spherical, triangle rectangle or square or whatever, once in flight it will not change it's course but will go straight.  if however you are saying that when leaving the socket different shapes will exit differently causing the shot to go in a direction not intended, because of it not sitting right in the socket, that is exactly what i was saying, ammo placement...if that is a problem with novice and inexperienced slingers, uniform ammo is the solution.


I get what you're saying. On short distances (less than 30m) the effect is indeed minimal as long as the rocks are relatively dense and compacted and not elongated and flat. Still, on longer distances, lets say from 50 to 100 meters accurate throwing, uniform ammo is just the way to go. Ammo placement in the pouch depends on the pouch type, but generally that's not hard to learn at all. 

I see no reason why a professional slinger wouldn't want to settle for uniform ammo. I would be more inclined to believe a professional slinger would craft his own ammo and recover them if possible while a novice slinger will just throw anything he can find to learn the basics of slinging.

I don't believe slinging exclusively uniform ammo is detrimental to a persons slinging skills, or detrimental to the practicality of the sling. (IMO it only increases it)
Uniform clay projectiles are incredibly easy to make in bulk, clay can be found totally free and still miles ahead when it comes to cost and effort ratio to make compared to the arrows of a bow. I think that little extra effort compared to just slinging uneven ammo is ten times worth its cost. Considering how cheap and simple a sling in operation already is, we get a little extra leverage to give more attention to the ammo we throw. 

Quote:
Das mit denn Steinen ist quatsch. Es gibt in Palma wenige Schützen die tatsächlich alles schießen was sie aufheben. Und sie treffen damit. Egal welches Gewicht und welche Form . Für das Jagen ist dies nur zweitrangig. Oft ist hier eine Distanz bis maximal zwanzig Meter . Glatte und gleichmäßige Steine mit bevorzugtem Gewicht sind toll . Aber nicht überall zu finden. Projektile aus Ton oder Blei , machen in großen Armeen Sinn. Bei kleineren Gruppen nicht.


I do not believe that clay projectiles are reserved for large armies alone. In my country (Holland) we have more clay than rock. Why not settle for clay then? It just makes a lot of sense to make use of clay if it's everywhere around you, can be formed into almost perfectly shaped glandes or balls with super clean releases and trajectories.

Now lead ammo- yes, I could understand that primarily being reserved for armies. But clay and lead ammo can't be thrown in the same basket.

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Ich glaube nicht, dass Lehmgeschosse allein großen Armeen vorbehalten sind. In meinem Land (Niederlande) zum Beispiel haben wir mehr Ton als Stein. Warum nicht mit Lehm zufrieden sein?  Es macht nur sehr viel Sinn, Ton zu benutzen, wenn er um dich herum ist, er kann perfekt geformt werden, mit Keulen oder Bällen, mit schöner Wurfen und Trajektorien.

Jetzt Blei Munition - Ja, Ich konnte verstehen, dass das hauptsächlich für Armeen reserviert ist. Aber Ton  und Blei Munition können nicht in den gleichen Korb geworfen werden.



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All Glory to God forever and ever, amen
 
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