Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Flexible Staff Sling (Read 2552 times)
Mangudai
Novicius
*
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 8
Flexible Staff Sling
Nov 23rd, 2014 at 7:37pm
 
Hi all, I'm new to the forum, and new to slinging. 

Based on what I've read, it seems most staff slings use a rigid staff.  I was curious about using a springy staff.  I figured it might allow the user to put more energy into the early part of the throw, flexing the staff, and get that energy back right at the release.  My experience suggested that flexibility in fishing poles helped with longer casts.  So I tried it!

I just made my first staff slings and tested them out.  I'm very lucky to live in a rural area with plentiful wood, stones, and space to play in.  I used small green willow wood to make my staves.  My first staff didn't flex very much even with heavy stones.  Most of my throws went 100' or so, I was slightly disapointed, I wanted at least 3x that range.  The second staff flexed a lot with stones the size of a plum and hurled them 100 yards no problem!  It could hurl smaller stones far as well, but didn't work right for stones much bigger than a plum. 

My conclusion is that the springy staff is way better! 

http://postimg.org/image/lu2g3t483

Both staffs are between 5' and 6' long.  The larger one is 7/8" thick at the top.  The smaller (better) one is 1/2" thick at the top.  The sticks taper naturally to almost twice as thick at the bottom.  The same sling was used for both using 8" of bicycle inner tube and 30" or so of paracord.  I experimented with shorter lengths of cord and left the excess attached.

The first one used a notch and stopknot release, then I switched to a loop release.  The notch release has at least one major advantage and one disadvantage.  The advantage is it's much easier to adjust the length of cord.  I tied several stopknots in the release cord, and adjusted the fixed cord by coiling it around the staff.  This approach worked fine... at least the terrible power and accuracy I was getting were not noticeably worse.  The disadvantage of the notch release is that it takes more damage if the tip of the staff hits the ground after a throw. 

I experimented with three different throwing styles.  1) Wood chopping style, exactly as one would use a splitting axe.  This style sucked on power, it is possibly the easiest way for a beginner to lob a stone 100', but it is just a lob.  2)  Rainbow style, this involves keeping both arms extended and swinging them in a full arc from right to left while twisting the hips.  This style gave the most power to very heavy stones, but was hard on my back.  3) Fisherman style, this starts off almost like the wood chopping style, but instead of sliding the top hand down the shaft, one breaks both wrists at the top of the arc moving the top hand forward while the bottom hand pivots in place.  This style had by far the most awesome range and power when slinging stones the size of a plum or smaller.  For larger stones I was unable to do it. 

I should also mention that sticks have a natural direction they prefer to bend.  To find it, just stand the stick vertically on the ground and push down at the top.  The stick will naturally always bend in the same direction.  Align the cords (and notch) with that. 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Oxnate
Senior Member
Webmaster
****
Offline


Crus de agnus Dei con
quilon menthae.

Posts: 331
Minnesota
Gender: male
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #1 - Nov 23rd, 2014 at 8:18pm
 
Well, that's some interesting anecdotal evidence. 

I'm curious if we have any engineers who can back that up.  It seems to me like a springy staff might lose more energy than the stiffer one should.
Back to top
 

Sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine:  'Yea' isn't the word you want.  It's 'yeah'.  'Yea' is an anachronistic word you see in the King James bible. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Spellcheck, I shall fear no misspellings for thou art with me.  Thy dictionary and thy thesaurus, they comfort me.
 
IP Logged
 
Mangudai
Novicius
*
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 8
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #2 - Nov 23rd, 2014 at 9:18pm
 
Yes, I'm very interested, if anyone can give a science based response to this.  Without a high speed camera I can't be certain if the stick reflexes back to straight before or after the cord is released.  If the cord releases before the stick reflexes, that could mean a longer distance traveled by the users hands than would be the case for a rigid staff.  Which would mean more work done by the user. 


One thing I forgot to mention is that using a very springy staff and a loop release I had quite a few fumbles due to the loop coming off at the start of the throw and dropping the stone on the ground with no initial kinetic energy.  I was able to work through this problem by creating a notch for the release loop to rest in.  Often I started my throw with the tip of the staff below horizontal.  It may be that suddenly flexing the staff made the tip angle even lower, resulting in more drops. 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
AncientCraftwork
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 2403
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #3 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 5:07am
 
Interesting. I'll also try to make a stiff and bending staff sling after my exams this week. See how it works / which one works better. Have you tried a thick, short fishing pole? They are quite bendy.
Back to top
 

All Glory to God forever and ever, amen
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #4 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 6:57am
 
that is interesting as you'd imagine the staff would still be bent at the point of release and only straighten up once the sling has released the missile.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Dan
Interfector Viris Spurii
SlingingGuide Moderator
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 3974
Gender: male
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #5 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 10:05pm
 
I think we need to look at all the variables and constants here. The length and general construction are fairly consistent, but I assume the flexible staff is thinner and also has less air resistance. This would not be a big factor with fist sized stones because of the momentum they carry, but with plum sized or smaller, air resistance is noticeable.

While this is on a finer scale, try swinging a golf club and a baseball bat. You should be able to swing the golf club much faster and it will send small objects (like a golf ball) much farther. The same applies in reverse with the baseball bat, because of it's weight and balance, it can hit a larger object farther, even though it is moving slower.

Once again, you can look at the flip side and see that the golf club can't hit the baseball very far, and the baseball can't hit the golf ball very far.

Without personally testing this, I think your results are more due to air resistance and ease of swing than flexibility. But, I could be mistaken. Fishing rods after all are very flexible and do quite a good job at swinging small objects out into the distance.
Back to top
 

I was pretty good at slinging like 10 years ago.
 
IP Logged
 
Mangudai
Novicius
*
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 8
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #6 - Nov 24th, 2014 at 11:21pm
 
Air resistance is an important variable to consider.  I'm narrowing in on the air resistance of the pouch and seeing if I can improve that. 

I've been fooling around with hand slinging as well and not getting all the power I want out of it.  I suspect one possibility is that my pouches or strings stay in the way of the projectile after I release the cords. 

It may be that the springy staff jerks forward on release which would get the pouch and strings out of the way better.  And give the projectile backspin, thus lift. 

I hope somebody will try a springy staff sling and post their experience with it. 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #7 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 7:10am
 
with a staff sling the greatest power the user puts in is at the point of release.
So the staff shouldn't actually straighten up untill the missile has left the pouch and there is no more resistance to the wood.

It's why - traditionally - staff slings have always been pretty rigid. You actually lose power when the wood bends.

Like a bow energy is stored in the bent wood - but unlike a bow the energy is released AFTER the missile has gone.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Mangudai
Novicius
*
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 8
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #8 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 9:14am
 
I think that is right.  The greatest forces are at the end.  So the staff will be maximally bent just before release and rebound afterwards.  So the potential energy of the bent staff will not be transferred to the projectile. 

However, the user may be able to do more work overall.  Because the bottom of the staff rotates farther than the tip, and the users hards move farther.  One way to look at it is a free windup,  the human body is already moving fast early in the throw.

Also I got the best performance with a fisherman style cast, where the wrists provide a huge boost.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
timpa
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Stones in the horizon

Posts: 1515
Finland
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #9 - Nov 26th, 2014 at 8:07pm
 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
AncientCraftwork
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 2403
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2014 at 6:03am
 
timpa wrote on Nov 26th, 2014 at 8:07pm:



If it can be thought of, timpa has done it!  It sound quite powerful, but how far do the bearings go? Did you thought of making it a bit shorter so you can use heavier ammo?
Back to top
 

All Glory to God forever and ever, amen
 
IP Logged
 
jlasud
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Programming stones

Posts: 2358
Transilvania
Gender: male
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #11 - Nov 29th, 2014 at 11:31am
 
I broke a cheap fishing rod trying this Tongue Staff slings are quite inneficient because: short acceleration(~90 degrees)  compared to slings
              More weight overall needs to be accelerated compared to slings                           
              More air drag compared to slings



Back to top
 

Respect existance or expect resistance!
 
IP Logged
 
timpa
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Stones in the horizon

Posts: 1515
Finland
Re: Flexible Staff Sling
Reply #12 - Dec 1st, 2014 at 4:08pm
 
Thanks Jauke Smiley
Was not enough time to the lake to try out the length of the throw.

@Jlasud:
Apparently, you did not have a fishing rod of carbon fiber?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Morphy, Kick, Curious Aardvark, joe_meadmaker, Chris, Rat Man, vetryan15)