Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Sling in Old Irish literature (Read 11972 times)
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #15 - Sep 22nd, 2014 at 12:29pm
 
Alas, I see in translations that the meaning is very contested
http://thetaintorque.com/ChariotTranslation.html

return stroke
ricochet shot
stunning shot

are the three translations.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
slingbadger
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Don't Badger a Badger

Posts: 3220
Akron NY
Gender: male
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #16 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 6:59am
 
From the Fenian Cycle-Battle of Ventry  (Cath Finntraga)
  " And 2 foreigners were set against them that day. And Concrither seized his long sided sling (an tabhaill) and put a straight a straight even stone in it, and gave it a straight even cast,so that it went into the forehead of his adversary, and took the brain as a lump of blood out the back of his head."
Back to top
 

The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
IP Logged
 
JAG
Junior Member
**
Offline


Pussy Cat

Posts: 80
GB
Gender: female
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #17 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
Fenian Cycle-Battle of Ventry (Cath Finntraga)

Two manuscripts survive dating to the 15th century. The earliest texts it is suggested dated to the 12 th century. However it is known that just as in all the other pre-Christian tribes of the British Isles, the stories/fables date back many years prior, being passed by word of mouth across the generations.

The tales of Finn like all the mythical fables are not recorded history. They are symbolic stories originally telling of the spirituality of the tribe.

Two other important facts must also be kept in mind when trying to interpret the texts:

a) those that survive where written a thousand years after Christianity infected the native people's. The last point in history where the stories remained true to their pagan spirituality.
b) the Christian authors radically changed the original stories as can be seen by the many similarities with Greek texts and the near elimination of all pagan spirits. 

It should be remembered that the pope ordered that pagan temples should not be destroyed, but that the iconography be replaced with compatible Christian symbols. As such temples to a / the goddess figure morphed into churches of St Mary (the mother of God), temples to a God morphing into churches of Jesus or St. Peter for example. For proof look no further than  The Sisters of Brigid in Killdare ( meaning Church of the Oak)

For those not versed in the ancient ways, Brigid was the name of the Mother Goddess. The mother of the male fertility God figure who dies and is reborn each year. His symbol is the sun and fire is his element.

Christianity stole and then morphed the pagan beliefs to match their own. In this way Rome achieved through the piety of the pagan people, what she had failed to do at the point of a sword.

So, reading these texts as a way to learn the facts of pre-Christian Ireland, is no different to reading the bible as literal truth.



Back to top
 

No Entry. Works In Progress.
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #18 - Sep 28th, 2014 at 8:01pm
 
My own reading of Old Irish poetry chimes with the Wikipedia page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Irish_literature

namely that it's pretty easy to separate Christian gloss from the older substratum. And the resemblances between this substratum and Greek poetry are not due to monks (learned as the Hibernian monks were), but to Indo-european themes (e.g. obsessions with heroism and death, or motifs such as "teichoscopia", gazing at heroes from the walls-- in Irish epic, but also Greek epic and even Indian epic, so very ancient indeed). Cattle-rustling, chariots, banqueting, song, and indeed slings, really do resemble what we know about Celtic Iron Age society.

In any case, why would Christian monks put in lots of references, some detailled, to slinging ? Because of King David ? A complicated scenario. Easier to relate this slinging motif to Celtic life.

Note that one of the examples I linked to is simply an early modern family chronicle, mentionning a slinging accident as part of the family history.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
slingbadger
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Don't Badger a Badger

Posts: 3220
Akron NY
Gender: male
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #19 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 6:34am
 
Ran across a sling reference in the Annals of the Four Masters. It talks about about the death of King Crimhthainn, shortly after an expedition he had been on. He brought back wonderful items, including " A conquering sword, with many serpents, of refined messy gold on it, a shield with with bosses of bright silver, a spear, from which the wound inflicted by no one recovered, a sling, from which no erring shot was ever discharged; and 2 greyhounds, with a silver chain between them."  M9.1
Back to top
 

The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #20 - Oct 3rd, 2014 at 5:29pm
 
Magic
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #21 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 6:05pm
 
William Sayers, "Martial Feats in the Old Irish Ulster Cycle"
The Canadian Journal of Irish Studies 9 (1983), pp. 45-80.

Discusses martial feats, ("Cles") in Old Irish tales: heroes frequently perform tricks or feats involving arms, as a demonstration of prowess. Some of the tales give lists of such feats. Cu Chulainn is said to have performed them in sequence every morning, "swift as a cat making for cream".

Tales compiled in C12th, oral tradition written down in C7th, might reflect culture of C4th, events placed a few centuries earlier (i.e. Christian-era interest in tales dating to pre-Christian era and themselves placed even earlier).

There are jugging or dexterity tricks / feats with "apples" (some kind of thrown spherical weapon), sword, shield and spear; leaping feats (like the famous "salmon jump"); weapons throwing; various types of blows; the taithbeim, "return stroke" which describes both the stunning of birds with the slingstone, and a type of sword stroke (not clear what's involved: possibly describing the path of the sword, a "short-arm" blow ?), and finally the "thunder-trick", torannchless, by which the "thunder" of the slingstone lays low one (or many) men, not clear if it's the "sound' of the sling or the actual strike of the stone. 

So less slinging than expected, but a bit; no clarity on the mysterious "return-stroke" of the sling (the expression is also used for thrown swords).
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #22 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 6:07pm
 
In the Tain Bo Cuailnge, Conchobar is hit in the head with a "brain ball", i.e. a sling bullet made of an enemy's brain mixed with lime.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
Re: Sling in Old Irish literature
Reply #23 - Apr 4th, 2015 at 6:16pm
 
In "The Violent Death of Medb" (published by V. Hull, Speculum, 1938), a tale now preserved in a C12th compilation,    Queen Medb, while bathing, is seen by Furbaide, the son of Medb's sister Clothru, overthrown and killed by Medb. Furbaide was eating a piece of cheese; he did not tarry to seek a stone, but loaded the cheese in his sling, let fly, and struck Medb on the crown of the head, killing her.

Must have been some very hard cheese indeed.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Thearos
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Take that

Posts: 3410
In Welsh
Reply #24 - Apr 13th, 2015 at 7:25pm
 
P.Y. Lambert, Annuaire EPHE (IVeme section), 2002, 379-80, discusses the poems of Daffyd ap Gwylim: there is an adjective, "talmithr", which means "sudden". It is constructed on the Celtic word for sling (talm, as in old Irish, "tailm", Breton "talm") and a suffix -tro-, of agency. So in middle Welsh, you can say something like "slingant" to mean "swift, sudden".
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Curious Aardvark, Rat Man, Mauro Fiorentini, Masiakasaurus, Chris, Bill Skinner, David Morningstar)