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Fig-8: pause before the shot (Read 10554 times)
timann
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #45 - Oct 6th, 2014 at 3:35pm
 
This one, perhaps?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQannIFnMI

Quite different from the way I do it.  I do it my way because I need to add all sort of body mechanic stuff into the throw to get a reasonable result.  As I am reasonably accurate and hit with sufficient power I am reasonably happy with it.  If I was a better thower to begin with I`d probably use smaller and faster movements.  In my last video I see myself really stretching my shoulder back to meet the pouch to give power to the forward thrust.  Just as I would do If I should throw far by hand. 
Except if I try to throw far by hand my shoulder begin to hurt Sad
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Mark
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #46 - Oct 20th, 2014 at 2:12am
 
There definitely shouldn't be any slack in the sling.  That's the problem most people have when I'm teaching them figure-8, because they separate the throw into distinct phases.  Probably because I teach it in phases, LOL.  But you transition through each phase smoothly.  They usually do the drop, pull the sling behind them, and then think "time to throw" and the jerk into a throwing motion, rather than letting the sling do the work.

The real acceleration for me happens when the sling is about in line with my front leg.  Before that, the speed of the sling is about the same whether I'm going for 50 yards or 250 yards, whether I'm just taking a step, or putting a skip for more power.

I've also noticed my figure-8 is slightly different than David's C-A's (I think, couldn't quite tell from the camera angle), and Dan's.  It's clearest on Dan's.  He drops and starts to bring his wrist up and then behind him without extending the throwing arm fully in the direction opposite the intended direction.  Pause the weaver figure-8 video at 6 seconds on Morningstar's youtube channel, and then pause Dan's video at 29-30 seconds and compare the arm positions.

Newcomers to figure-8 also try to do the whole throw super fast, rather than just the last part.  I tell them to work on slow and smooth, then smooth with some speed towards the end.  Once they've got the mechanics, then they can tweak it so it's comfortable and natural.
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Tomas
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #47 - Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:12pm
 
Mark, is love to see you put it all on video. Smiley
I do agree on your statements but you should video!
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #48 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 8:57am
 
Quote:
Newcomers to figure-8 also try to do the whole throw super fast, rather than just the last part.  I tell them to work on slow and smooth, then smooth with some speed towards the end.  Once they've got the mechanics, then they can tweak it so it's comfortable and natural


Yeah doing it slowly is much better for learning.

Also the sling shouldn't drop much below shoulder height. I think that's where people lose alot of power. Instead of a steady acceleration.

This throw is a bit exaggerated as I had a bush behind me.


But clearly illustrates that:
1) I'm definitely slimmer these days Smiley
2) the sling has to slow down to drop down your back, if
you do the throw properly it should be continuous acceleration and minimal drop behind your back.
3) Tha cap paul sling design just has a beautiful missile release.

Doing it this way will also miss a backpack as well as a bush.
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #49 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:23am
 

Here is a post I made when this was discussed a few years ago. I still like the comparison to a tennis serve as that is what the fig. 8 throw feels like to me. That pause and drop can be hard to learn but once you feel it for the first time you will have it! That wait or delay or pause is the key to the whole thing.

*The hardest part about learning the Fig 8 for me was learning to wait for the right time to throw. There is a little pause where the sling pouch makes a smaller second orbit and gets into the loaded position for the throw. This is the same motion as a tennis serve. When learning tennis I was taught to drop the head of the racquet and to let it come back up around the back and side of my head and then back down into the “back scratch” position. This back scratch position is the loaded place where you can then give it everything in the throw.

Most people learning this sling move tend to try to make the throw too early and loose the tension and all the energy.  People that play tennis have an advantage in feeling this move.

A good way to learn this is to have a tennis ball attached to a string and practice this without actually throwing or worrying about the release of the string. Once you can swing the ball with no slack in the cord you can move on to throwing something in the sling.

Brian G has a nice demo of this on You Tube that most of you have seen. He talks about the 3 count move. The most common mistake is leaving out or rushing the 2nd count.

Watch closely how the head of the racquet moves into the back scratch position and then the throw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjZ5r_YHV0&feature=related
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Thearos
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #50 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 5:31am
 
The main thing that distinguishes fig-8 and helo from the "Greek " or "Apache" etc styles is that the throw starts from a position where the sling is in movement, so that it has no inertia to overcome and indeed a higher starting speed. But the trick is, precisely, this transition from the preparatory movement (the fig-8 looping, the helo) to the actual cast. That's what Mr Scotee insisted on in his very first posts-- taking up slack.
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #51 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:03pm
 
I agree with Mark and others who say the throw is one continuous movement that accelerates from beginning to end. For those with the right motion it will “feel” that way. It is a matter of having the correct sequence of movement. Most of those I have taught try to throw before the sling pouch makes the 2nd orbit. They are making more of an apache throw or cricket bowl instead of a baseball pitch or tennis serve. So for them they need to “feel” a wait or delay just long enough for the pouch to make the 2nd orbit. Then they can give it the final oomph and power the throw at the right time.
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #52 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
Tomas, I'm in a video, LOL.  It's just really old.  It's the Mark Weaver figure-8 video on David Morningstar's youtube channel.  Man, that was a long time ago.  I'll have to post a new one to my own channel in slo-mo.

I think you're arm can pause a little in the throw, but there should always be tension in the sling, no pause in the sling's rotation.

C_A's throw in his video up above also has a flatter plane of rotation.  Also, the projectile doesn't get much lower than the middle of his back when it passes behind him, while mine usually descends past my butt.  Just shows that the figure-8 can be thrown differently.  My wife's plane of rotation is really flat, while my boy's is more like mine.

Tennis definitely helps.  My nephew who plays tennis did the figure-8 almost perfectly on his 3rd or 4th try. Angry
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #53 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 9:21pm
 
Oh you're that guy! You do it well sir! Hahah
I've noticed if I wind up my fig 8 quickly the sling is not dipping as far behind my back as when I do it slowly.
I have so many thoughts and ideas rolling around my head abou this thread I hope I remember to put them to the test next time I sling. I think I might take some videos with and without adjustments so I can compare my movements:)
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #54 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 12:44am
 
Yeah, you should post some videos.  I think what's important too is that it feels comfortable before you start putting a lot of power in it, otherwise I think you can do some damage.  Either to your joints, or to an unintended target,  Grin.
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #55 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 6:19am
 
if the sling slows, or drops too low you're losing momentum and the initial windup achieves little.

With long slings it's difficult to avoid, and that's a different technique.

For accuracy with a medium length sling, there should be no pause and little drop.
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #56 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:59pm
 
Tomas,

How far the sling drops (at what part of the body it passes at the bottom of the second rotation) is a function of where the point of rotation is (where your hand is), and the plane of rotation (your style, influenced by the speed, like C_A says).  If you drop your hand further behind your head, like a tennis player serving, the sling pouch drops lower.  If you keep it more in the air the pouch won't drop as much.  If your plane of rotation is more vertical, more drop.  More horizontal, less drop.

Look at C_A's slow-mo video a couple of posts up and look at his hand position at 19-20 second mark.  Then look at mine at about 6-7 second mark.  It's fast, I know, but my hand reaches almost to my shoulder, while C_A's goes just below the top of his head.  That and the difference in the plane of more rotation (mine is closer to 80 degrees, C_A's is closer to 45 degrees) accounts for the drop.

My windup speed has very little effect on the plane of my rotation because it's almost vertical.  If you're plane of rotation is more like C_A's then your windup speed has more effect.

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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #57 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 4:04am
 
If you are a natural sidearm thrower, your tendency will be for a more horizontal rotation and release….as you try and orient the path of the pouch up and around your head to prepare for the sidearm throw.

I drop the pouch very low behind my back in preparation for a near vertical release…


As an overhand thrower, I find it easier to "pull" power into the sling forward and down, in the direction of the target.



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My daughters can figure-8...
 
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #58 - Oct 30th, 2014 at 5:25pm
 
Found this video as a trolled through slinging vids today.  His throw reminded me a lot of C_A's throw.  Don't know if it's been posted before.  But he says that he learned slinging from an Indian 68 years ago, when he was 16.  Doing the math, he was 84 when he made the video in 2007. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIT9HcnVqg
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Re: Fig-8: pause before the shot
Reply #59 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 11:43pm
 
@Oxnate ... that is one of my favorite slinging videos.
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