No question is a struggle to shoot something else like targeted sporty. But even with the army you learn first shoot static. The shooting at a fixed target has in the Balearic Islands is a long tradition. It is found mentioned in the Book of Games.
Alexander the Great has had his run with peltasts between his cavalry. Concealed. So these were professionals. No stupid peasants.

Figure 8 has its justification in the slingen. But it is not the ultimate method. Consider it just because the end of the movement, and they know why it is throwing the more similar than the shoot. This does not mean that it is not successful.
Looking at historic battlefields, then bi-conical projectiles will always find in the field of city walls. That is, they were shot from a greater distance. In Kalkriese was found countless Glandes. They were shot from a cover in the woods. Calculated distances were about 200 to 250m. At short distance (up to 50m) stones of clay or projectiles were often used. These were often around. Directly in front of my door, you can identify Projetile found on fields.

I don't put much stock in anything written by wealthy aristocrats…they never did much of the fighting. Too bad the Spartans didn't write more about themselves, probably too busy training and fighting.

I've read all sorts of claims from ancient texts, most of them read like any other "war story". Chances are if they make claims like lead "melting" in flight, or this culture "invented" the sling, the rest of the story might be a little exaggerated/inaccurate as well. I've listened to "war stories" my whole life, and have usually found that when you get to the truth, its not nearly as glorious as the "story". Kind of like all the Kung-fu legends that wilted when MMA became popular…or all of the Navy SEALs that have given themselves really cool nicknames, claimed crazy body count numbers and written books about their daring deeds.

From my observations watching countless Balearic tournament videos on youtube, most of the competitors are slinging slower than I can throw a rock…and I could probably get more hits as well…from throwing. So whats the point? I guess if you like that sort of thing…rock on! (I can sense the hair raising on the backs of the Balearic mafia!) I see that as regression...

Sling bullets are rare because they disappear after you throw them..I know! They still seem to be found all over the place though, and lead looks like grey rock after it weathers…adding to their camouflage. Lead was an abundant metal (one of the first to be used because it smelts at campfire temps) so I see no reason they were scarce. They were easily mass produced.

Why do you guys think the fig-8 doesn't have a geo-cultural name? (like Greek, Byzantine etc)

It has so many advantages in militaryt-style slinging (i've laid out most of them) that it is should be obvious…

So Heroslingaclese the fig-8 master never got his picture on a coin or vase…it matters not. What matters is what works. Give me 20 of those Palestinians with their poor technique and tactics, a couple of boxes of old wheel weights to melt and about 2 weeks of training and I will show you how to form a platoon of slingers that could actually be effective…and yes, we would use the fig-8 for most of our slinging.

Target and "max distance" competitions do not accurately represent the "martial art" of slinging…there was a lot more to it than we think, or that was recorded by Pliny or Xenophon or engraved on a cup or column.

Even my own experiments with plumbata show that most of the historians just don't know what they were talking about, they go much further when thrown like an american football and not by the tail (or lobbed underhand)…unless, of course, you just can't throw…then the tail might come in handy. (I figured that out throwing a Nerf Vortex when I was a kid)

Come onto my sling battlefield, step out into the open and whirl your sling around…I will figure 8 one from behind a tree and you'll never see it coming. 

SLING WAR 2015! I'm in….

Kugel sind nicht selten.  Auch auf denn Balearen findet man sie häufiger

lead and clay sling bullets are not super common, but they aren't always linked to events.
Just saying, I can throw rocks using figure 8 and a long sling much, much, much thurther than most can throw a javlin.
I can hit an area 20x30 much of the time with large rocks about 100 yards away.
I think the world record for olympic javlin throwing is somewhere around 100m.
we all agree the sling has more than 100m range.
Much more.
War javlins are heavier than flight javlins.
obviously olympic javlin throwing techniques are not used in war.

Sling bullets are generally quite rare-- except for concentrations in places which seemed to be linked to specific events. Antikythera, indeed-- which is one place much fought over. Another one is Numantia, in Spain-- certainly linked to the siege of 133.

It is important to be able to distinguish within sources. For instance, Xenophon or Thucydides give very precise accounts of tactics. These are not "tall stories", but attempts at highly analytical accounts of how combat occurs, both at the small level and the unit level, and even operations. Mr Harrop seems to find it difficult to distinguish between tall stories and tactical accounts; just as he finds it difficult to distinguish between a representation of a combat soldier and a centaur. But that's his problem.

So take Xenophon's account of how he led a body of men in battle against Iranians. There are four distances involved.

H = hoplites trying to close the gap and charge light infantry
C= Cretan archers firing self bows
I= Iranians firing reflex bows and slings with big stones
R= Rhodians firing lead.

R > I > C > H.

Put the values you want, but Xen thought R was 2I, which might be excessive. But perhaps (with combat and not extreme ranges)

250m > 160m > 120 m > 100-80m

To achieve R and I, you really need multi-rotations. Which everyone admits: multi-rotations are the way to go for very long distances. Which I think were used in combat with long slings

OK, I just went through the whole thing, highlighting sling, slings and slingers…starting around book 3 chapter 3.

Not much of a tactical account…more like an overview.

Faulty translation? http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/x/xenophon/x5an/book3.html

I like this part…

Damn, our Cretan archers suck, those slingers are kicking our ass, even though they throw big, slow stones…and not very far either. We need some slingers too…
Hey, the Rhodians! Those guys can sling, right? and they know something about lead…go wave some cash around and see how many slingers you can find…

Spoken like a spoiled aristocrat  (who knew nothing about the sling)


They did say they found a lot of lead in the villages though…

No Centaurs…so thats a relief. I hear they had a pretty mean helicopter.

I am wrong: Polybios / Livy does not talk about more stones than lead.

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1237391111/5#5

In the Xenophon passage, note a few things: the Rhodians were not hired as slingers, but almost certainly as heavy infantry-- but know how to sling. And they know how to sling "with lead": which appears to be a specialized skill.

Pssibly against my long-distance combat model, note the passage in Polybios saying that Achaian slingers could hit the part of the target's face they wanted. To be able to distinguish the face at all-- what range does this imply ? Modern musketry regulations might still imply a possible 100-150m.

The three slings (short, medium, long) carried by the Balearic slingers imply combat at those respective distances. I wonder if this is not a reflection of those slingers' skill-- and if most slingers wouldn't bug out at closer distance.

Kalkriese-- of course, the lead bullets there are linked with the passage of the Roman army in AD 9 and the defeat of Varus. Not random finds. The specialness of lead ammo was also the feeling of jlasud on this forum, who shoots a lot of the stuff.