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Question: Set Distances or Points Adjusted for Distance?



« Created by: CodeMaker on: May 29th, 2013 at 4:11pm »

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Basic Competition Scoring and Distance (Read 6851 times)
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Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
May 29th, 2013 at 4:11pm
 
This is the last thing we need to decide in order to hold competitions. an explanation of the choices follows:

Set Distances-
     We would choose a few standard slinging distances and a competing slinger would sling at the distance best fitting his skill level. this it the choice that will make the most sense to non-slingers, but keep in mind that it does not allow a slinger to choose his distance. also, if 2 slingers are used to slinging at different distances, than there is no way for them to fairly compete using this method.

Points Adjusted for Distance-
     We would make a graph (or an equation) showing how much a hit is worth at a given distance. So a hit from farther away would be worth more points. A slinger can sling at any distance, and adjust the points accordingly. the graph would be made by finding how many hits are made with 20 stones against a Balearic target from various distances, and than determining how much more difficult it gets to score points as the distance gets farther. the graph would be then published. this method would be more versatile and is better suited to small groups of slingers than set distances. Keep in mind that we could still have "usual distances" to guide new slingers, similar to how our current accuracy merit award works.


Now lets get this figured out so we can start some real competitions!

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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #1 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 3:01pm
 
Whatever the community decides is fine.  Probably won't affect me all that much. 

Some thoughts on standards though...  I've read that some feel that slinging at shorter distances and simply using a smaller target is the same as slinging at a larger target at longer distances.  In my experience this is not the case.  Both elevation and windage come into affect at longer distances.  Elevation is particularly difficult in field slinging since the ranges are unknown.  But even in target slinging,  since you have neither a front nor a rear site, judging elevation, and essentially slinging at a nonexistent spot somewhere above the target takes more skill than slinging at a small target at shorter distances.

Also overall distances in my set up are from 15-40 meters.  I would urge other slingers to consider longer distances when/if deciding on what the community should use.  It's only a matter of time that longer distances happen either way.  People will continue to raise the bar and push boundaries.  40 meters is a very reasonable outer limit for the sling.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #2 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 6:57pm
 
All good things to keep in mind, thank you Morphy Smiley


I'll probably keep this poll open until around Sunday. After that we need to move onto developing and refining the method that is chosen. It would be nice to have competition standards all set before the end of the month, so that we can put it into use over the summer.
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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #3 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 7:38pm
 
my target after approx 150 shots at 15 yards-
...
This is 5/8 plywood... I think.  I got it for free and didn't measure it.
I spray-painted the lines and circle on to see what it does to my accuracy and to help you guys. The sheet is 120 cm tall and I measured 120 cm to make the lines. The circle is I think 50 cm but I dunno. It might be closer to 60 or 70. Just go by the square. the approx middle of the black lines are the edges, and the inside of the circle is measured. I meant to paint outside the circle but thought it would take too long.
I did this in 10 mins. I might do this with another target, 1" plywood. Then the whole dang thing would be square, but there is no way I can penetrate 1" of marine plywood.
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #4 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 7:53pm
 
beautiful! could you try throwing from 1 or 2 more distances and give me your scores for each distance? (maybe 10 meters and 20 meters) take the same number of shots you took for this at each distance and give me the scores for all 3 distances. if you get around to it, i'll enter all the data into my graph along with some scores from other people to get a head start on a distance VS. accuracy graph. Your target is close enough to official dimensions for me Smiley
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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #5 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 8:29pm
 
CodeMaker wrote on Jun 6th, 2013 at 7:53pm:
beautiful! could you try throwing from 1 or 2 more distances and give me your scores for each distance? (maybe 10 meters and 20 meters) take the same number of shots you took for this at each distance and give me the scores for all 3 distances. if you get around to it, i'll enter all the data into my graph along with some scores from other people to get a head start on a distance VS. accuracy graph. Your target is close enough to official dimensions for me Smiley

I can only do one more distance(I have only one more wood target Tongue)... and the marks will be mars of the wood(dents) cause I cannot puncture 1" marine plywood.

I can do 30 yards, but I doubt I will hit it more than 5 times per 100 shots.
How bout 25 yards?
I can probably hit it a few times.
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“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
"You don't think the electricity is off. You check it 3 times to make SURE its off"
"Remember, this is not a scalpel. It is a steel wedge that you will be slamming into knotty wood. Hone accordingly."
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #6 - Jun 6th, 2013 at 8:43pm
 
sure, so long as you take the same number of shots at a similar target. any distance works so long as it's AT LEAST 5 meters (about 4.5 yards) difference from your first distance. that way i'll have some contrast for the graph.
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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #7 - Jun 7th, 2013 at 12:23am
 
Just wanted to pipe in here and say that you gents are bringing it along nicely.  Bravo Zulu!
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2013 at 8:23pm
 
I agree, this seems to be going quite well  Smiley
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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #9 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 9:38am
 
well if you have points adjusted for distance - then you can sling at set distances as well using the same system.
So you get a 2 for one effectively.

Depending on ammunition - and that's extremely important - scores should drop off considerably after 30 yards/metres - which are we using by the way ?
Primarily because most people have problems keeping a flat trajectory much after that kind of distance.

Target shooting is much harder if you have to angle your throw with a distinct arc.
 
I can throw pretty flat to at least 70 yards - but I suspect that's fairly unusual Smiley
I actually found what effected my accuracy at distance most was an inability to see what i was aiming at.

Seriously need new glasses prescription.

Actually had me wondering how it would have effected ancestral slingers who had no corrective eye wear.  

Anyway - that's all moot.

My main point was if we have a formula for working out points at any distance, but put the preference on using fixed distances  - then we've covered all the bases.
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #10 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 6:05pm
 
I agree C_A. The poll in currently at a tie, but points adjusted for distance had a clear lead up until now, so we're gonna go with that unless there is some major riot saying otherwise. so we now need to start gathering Data. i'll try to post a request for peoples scores in the "general" section before the end of the day.

As for ammunition, it seems like most people don't like the idea of standardizing it, so i'm just going to leave that up to the host of the competition if he/she wants to dictate the type of ammunition used.
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"Out of all these troops, the best 700 were left-handed. Each could sling a stone at a hair and not miss" - Judges, 20:16&&&&for all you right handed suckers out there Tongue
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #11 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 6:36pm
 
Consistant ammo(golf balls, clay, lead) makes a person more accurate.
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“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
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"Remember, this is not a scalpel. It is a steel wedge that you will be slamming into knotty wood. Hone accordingly."
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #12 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 7:01pm
 
Yes, but not everybody can train with lead every day.

The "the idea of standardizing" that people don't agree is an international standard, not a problem of training with consistant ammunition.
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #13 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 7:04pm
 
Caldou wrote on Jun 9th, 2013 at 7:01pm:
Yes, but not everybody can train with lead every day.

The "the idea of standardizing" that people don't agree is an international standard, not a problem of training with consistant ammunition.

I have only slung 3 lead glandes in  my entire life.

I often use stone, but golf balls are much more accurate.
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“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
"You don't think the electricity is off. You check it 3 times to make SURE its off"
"Remember, this is not a scalpel. It is a steel wedge that you will be slamming into knotty wood. Hone accordingly."
 
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Re: Basic Competition Scoring and Distance
Reply #14 - Jun 9th, 2013 at 7:45pm
 
Just to throw a metaphoical wrench in the metaphorical gears of the metaphorically dueling methods...

There's no reason not to do both.

I say this for two reasons: First, set ranges, as with accuracy achievement standards, are easy to set up, give a universal standard to judge from, and make sense to those outside. Let's just say, for the sake of arguement, that the scores are as follows(format m/pts) for a diana:

15/1, 25/2, 35/4.

Every 10m over 15, the score is doubled. That gives the following, if my math is correct (I doubt it): pts=(R-15m)/5 Where R=range. 
To get 25m points, it would be: pts.= (25-15=10)/5=2
To get 35m Points, pts= (35-15=20)/5=4
To get 45m Points, pts= (45-15=30)/5=8.....See, I did it wrong. One of the mathmeticians who didn't strugle with basic Algebra and quadratic functions may be able to help more later.

This then gives a perfectly fine system to use for longer or shorter or oddly placed ranges of whatever type you could want.


There's also a totally different way to look at it: Dianas and boards at x range out of 10 stones:
A score would be as follows: 2/5@30...1/2@50...Etc. Or, since it can only go to 100, refered to as a "Twenty five at Thirty" or "Twelve at Fifty" if you like. A 100 would be a perfect score.  This system would accomidate any range, and then set ranges can be used for competitions, excepting in a less formal, odd-range or long-range shoot.
As every slinger will know who difficult it is shooting at any range they've tried, or can guess at the difficulty, it seems solid enough.
Thoughts?
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