Titanium Kylies!  Now you're talking!!  I doubt that I will have another breakage anytime soon.  That stick was pushed past normal limits.  Certainly normal use isn't what I put these things through! 

Hello folks,

I added aother layer to my harboard-made "bird of prey" kylie to increase the weight. In its final shape it weighed 255 gram and the excessive lift is reduced though it should be reduced more for a perfectly-straight flight. I'm going to try negative dehidral to achieve a better flight path. Contrary to the larger one, the smaller one needed a little bit lift and I achieved it by twisting the leading wing. Now,it flies on a beautiful, straight trajectory! It weighs 175 gram in the final shape. A short video clip showing some test throws and the humble throwing stick collection of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYBo3-7mTAM&feature=youtu.be

Yeah what's your name Ela Gozlu Avci?  Thanks for sharing the videos. 

You're getting better and better results with the sticks.  Your airfoils are working but you need to get them tuned.  I know the thrill of discovery involved with this.  Keep having fun with these.  My 5 year old son and I spend hours together on "Walkabout".   

Have you read Felix Hess Thesis On Boomerangs yet?  It has some ideas on kylie tuning and can be downloaded for free online.  It gives you something to think about anyway, whether accurate to reality or not.  Theories on aerodynamics and mathematical models are never quite accurate to reality in my experience with them, but Hess is pretty in depth with his.  Kylie tuning is a lot more complex and multi-dimensional than boomerangs apparently are. 

I've variously tuned with skew and dihedral applied to different parts, as well as with the carving of the wing surfaces themselves, and of course the shape of the overall stick.  In this I have found that there are actually multiple ways to correctly make and tune a kylie, including multiple correct airfoils which work as well.  Some ways are more aerodynamically efficient than others and thus hold energy longer.   Skew can cause a lot of drag, for instance. 

Eliminating the right-ward's veer and excessive lift at the end of your flights will increase your range and accuracy quite a bit because the energy will go into forward motion instead of lift and turning, and you'll be able to take accurate shots at targets at longer and longer ranges as you get better and better at tuning. 

My goal is a perfectly straight throw for as far as possible.  I've been spending hours on experiments in the last few months and making new discoveries every week.  Right now I'm at about 65-75 yards target accurate straight throws.  By target accurate I mean that the kylie flies straight like a laser beam.  Distance is irrelevant to me as long as it's 86 yards or less.  Further away, targets appear smaller which means my aim needs to be better.  But I don't throw at a different trajectory than I do at 20 yards.  This range is gradually increasing as I hone the efficiency of my design. 

I've just started experimenting with turbulators so I expect to increase my target ranges and maximum ranges further.  I will report back and eventually get some more videos once I have something new to show.  Video quality is always a concern! 

The way straight line flight is achieved by an instrument which is continually bleeding off its energy as it travels out: is by tuning the kylie to harness gyroscopic precession to very slowly but progressively pitch up little by little, as it travels out - at just the rate necessary to turn forwards energy into continually increasing lift, through continually increasing "direct lift" forces.  It's like a plane coming in for a landing almost.  The nose pitches up as the speed reduces.  The result is that at really long range the kylie's spin appears more and more visible to the thrower as it pitches up (tilts backwards).  At those ranges it starts to loose energy more quickly.  I don't really notice this effect at ranges below 65-80 yards, depending on the efficiency of the stick. 

Heavier and longer kylies will fly just as well as the lighter ones.  Lift is a vague thing which isn't related much to weight, since bigger kylies also have bigger wings.  I never put weights in the wings.  I want the biggest sized stick I can throw. 

The heavier kylies require a different grip and thus throwing technique.  Up to about 340 grams and 67cm I'm able to comfortably use an extended grip, and I'm very accurate with this.  Beyond this in either length or weight, and I use a hammer grip.  The hammer grip allows for much greater weight and length to be managed at full velocity throws. In fact more length and weight are helpful to get good velocity into the throw.  But the hammer grip throwing technique has a bit slightly slower initial velocity than my extended grip technique, with a slightly greater spin rate.  At least that's how it has been for me thus far.  Still, the ranges are good in my experience with them.  380 grams x 72cm to 500 gram x 67cm kylie are typical weights and lengths from Central Desert Aboriginal Australia of the past.

I plan to start making and throwing more sticks in this heavier longer range in the near future, and trying to develop my throwing technique with them.  They are ideal for deer hunting.  But first I want to perfect my design on the mid range ones, which I believe may be better for rabbit hunting, etc....

Ben

Murat from Istanbul,

Thanks for the fascinating story about the archaeology and the picture.  I find the experimental archeology to be of great interest as well.  I started off with slings in this regard.  Understanding the dynamics of ancient tools through re-creating them and developing expertise, reveals a lot. 

The conclusion of my journey will end in natural wooden replicas, if time permits.  For now I am working in the more stable and durable material, but rediscovering the ancient techniques is a lot of fun.

Properly applied negative dihedral and skew will keep your kylies from pitching up too much.  Every kylie shape tunes differently.  Some things are best done with a blade instead of a bend, because skew causes drag, which shortens ranges.  Too much negative dihedral can make your stick unstable in flight.  Everything inter-relates.  Skew and dihedral are almost the same thing on a bent arm, as Hess points out. 

My experiments with turbulators is a success.  I will refine the technique over more time.  I just made a new flight distance record this morning.  114 yard throw at the park.  With some very fine tuning, I believe I will beat that distance.  I'm aiming for 120 yards next goal!  Most of my throws were about 100 yards today, give or take a little.   

On my own property I've been able to start throwing from the weeds across the road from my property, 72 yards across and hit my targets on the fence.  If you are familiar with my videos you'll be able to place about where I'm standing.  In the videos I'm standing at the road.  Now I'm standing well beyond the other side of the road and throwing at the same targets.  I'm hitting my targets consistently I might add! 

Pictures attached.

I want to do some more refinements before I take more videos, but I eventually will.  At 60 yards you don't even have to throw very hard to get straight flights at your target.  It's incredible.   

(Edit:  I wanted to add that there was no wind at the park this morning.  A back wind would have boosted my range, but I'm trying to take measurements only on non-windy days as much as possible.  For hunting you always want to be throwing into a head wind anyway, because otherwise you won't find prey in the field!). 

Ben

Murat,

I don't add any weight to my kylies but some makers do as far as I have seen.  I think that's a departure from the experimental archaeology, and I don't think they need it. 

Proper throwing technique should incorporate both full wrist snap and full throwing power.  I can use an extended grip on kylies up to 12 oz, and beyond that a hammer grip is necessary for me.  The Hammer grip imparts more spin than the extended grip, but both are adequate. 

If your kylie only went 30 meters and then it collapsed, then it either has significantly too much drag from the tuning or either the airfoil (looks very thick), tuning, or shape of the kylie itself is causing an unstable flight, which allowed it to come undone or fall apart mid flight.  That's what it sounds like to me.  It's hard to offer advise since every stick is different and requires different tuning.  Not every historical stick was refined to fly a long ways either.  Some designs were better than others and some were quicker to just make and abuse for close range throws.  The ones used for hunting Emu at 60 meters may not be my first choice to throw at a lizard on a rock. 

Just keep experimenting until you find the magic formula.  You'll probably stumble across it well before you understand it or can replicate it again, so hold onto any good sticks you have and study them.            

I just finished a big Central Desert Kylie which is 73cm long and weighs 400 grams (14oz).  It's fluted as well, which came out beautifully.  It broke one of my wood targets on the fence in two piece when it hit it!  I didn't have time to finish tuning it 100% before it got dark.  Definitely the type of thing I'd feel confident in if I were hunting deer!  A lot of power!!

Ben

Whipartist wrote on Sep 27^th, 2014 at 3:21am:


I had to check to be sure, but unfortunately, Guinness (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/) has no records for furthest Kylie throw.  And only 2 for returning boomerangs.

Hello ladies and gents (and especially Ben),

I keep making throwing sticks, and occassionally I made a few returning boomerangs too(the latter I found much easier, correct me if I'm wrong).

I am experimenting with "new" designs and try to reach longer distances with flatter and more stable flights. I successfully made a snake-shaped TS, like that I have seen in old Egyptian papyri, as well as tomb paintings (such a TS had also been excavated from King Tutankhamn's tomb) and now working on a bat-shaped one, which is the largest I've ever made. The first throws showed more lift than needed, despite the high total mass. With the snake-TS I was able to reach 67-68 m (73-74 yards) and almost perfect flight. It  travels perfectly straight 40-45 m far, just 20 cm above the ground. I am going to share pics, or better videos soon. Just a question now: During the initial flight tests the TSs usually broke because they do not land paralel but vertically onto their tips. I glued them successfully with two-component epoxy glues and sometimes reinforces with tapes. Afterwards they served well, and even if they broke, it was on another spot. Do you know whether any other glue will work that good? How about white carpenter's glue, for example? Thanks for your replies. Murat