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Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slinger. (Read 2754 times)
Mauro Fiorentini
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Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slinger.
Feb 4th, 2013 at 6:50pm
 
Hallo friends!
I'm not sure I should have posted this topic here, I was thinking about Other topics, but on the other hand I'm showing a warrior, so... Anyway I'm ready to move the thread if you don't like it here.
So, I'm pleased to show you my hypothetical reconstruction of a Picenian slinger, ca. 8th Century b.C.
Picenians lived in my Region at that time, and they were known for their skills as pirates and mercenaries. In fact, Rome hired them as allies first and auxiliaries later, and they were the only Italic population which the Romans had to deport in order to grant the pax Romana. Picenian nasty people Cheesy

...

The warrior I had in mind was not a rich member of his tribe, which is shown by the lack of metallic equipment.
He's armed with an iron short sword of Balcanic origins (check here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338743737/0 and http://etadelferro.forumfree.it/?t=62356992) and his simple sling, a weapon of which use we have some evidences dating from the 6th to the 5th Century.
He wear a war belt made of reinforced leather, which he fasten with a simple bronze pin.
This belt will protect his lower stomach, while the chest is protected by the kardiophilax (check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-N3bspk-Y).
A kardiophilax was a very primitive kind of protection consisting of a couple of discs or a squares made by various materials and covering the heart and the back. Since my warrior is not rich, his kardiophilax is made of some layers of linen and a sheet of leather, hardened with the use of salted boiling water. Richer warriors and warlords had bronze kardiophilax with iron reinforcements.
Both the belt and the kardiophilax were common among the Iron Age populations in Central Italy, and a type of kardiophilax was produced in my Region. It can be easily recognized by its decorations, therefore I used these decorations for my version.
The warrior is protecting his head with a light cap made of some layers of linen, glued and sewn together. This kind of cap was very common at that time for we have many evidences: bronze and pottery figures from Region Marche, Umbria and Sardinia, a bark example from Southern Germany and a copper one from Region Veneto (check here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358701012).
The linen tunic is a typical short one, as can be seen in many frescoes, pottery and bronze figures of the time. It didn't change until Greek first, and then Roman fashion took its place.
Shoes are not shown for I'm still gathering sources on them.

I will soon add a more detailed review on my forum, and will update this page too.
Any comment would be much appreciated Smiley
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #1 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 9:42am
 
It looks good.  I have a few questions.  Have you tried slinging in it?  I ask because it looks like you will hit the hilt of your sword with it angled up like that.  Or, does your arm go over it during the throw?  How are you carrying your sling ammuniton?  Should you have a pouch or bag or is that a future project?
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #2 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 1:45pm
 
Thank you Bill!
Actually, the only evidence I can rely on regarding how they bring their ammunition is an archaeological one: digging a 6th Century male grave near my town, a friend of mine found 13 rounded stones, perfectly polished and crowded together; around them the soil was darker and more greasy than normal. He told me that perhaps it was a leather pouch containing sling ammunition.
I am prone to think that they used some sort of pouch, but they could also have put their stones in the folds of their tunics, or they could have held them in hand.
Actually I already made two leather pouches for my stones, but have found much easier to hold them in hand and twist the sling around the belt once I run out of ammunition.
In this reconstruction, the slinger is going to use a few stones, 5 or 6, and then he goes for a close fight with his sword.
But this is only my personal opinion, because we know very little about that era's warfare: there were duels between chiefs, but also ambush - all this judging by the small sizes of protections and offensive weapons. But there's nothing sure yet.
We may also use Homerus's descriptions of battles to imagine similar ones in the Picenian context, and this would be a legitimate hypothesis too.
Will post a video of me slinging with that sword soon  Smiley
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Dan
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #3 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 2:34pm
 
Looks good man!

I think it needs some dirt to give it a more ancient 'laborer/warrior" look.  Smiley

Close up pics of the sling would be good, its kinda hard to tell the exact construction method of it there but it looks like there are multiple cords leading up to the pouch but I'm not sure if that is the shadow.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #4 - Feb 5th, 2013 at 6:05pm
 
Well thank you Dan!
The sling is nothing sophisticated, just 2 strings and a leather pouch, Teg said it's scrap  Grin Those you see are definitely the string's shadows.
For the dirt... I'm working on it  Grin but you got it right, my warrior is a laborer in times of peace, a fisherman to be honest... I'm trying to cast the bronze harpoons but it's not easy  Huh
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Fundibularius
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #5 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 1:32am
 
Thanks for sharing, Mauro. An interesting reconstruction.

I have some doubts concerning the upward pointed shape of the hat, though, at least for a slinger. I'm almost sure you cannot do an overhead throw without risking to knock it off or tangling up your sling. Even rotating behind your back might get you in trouble when you incline the rotor forward.
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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #6 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 7:49am
 
Thanks Fundibularius, now that you make me think about it, you must be right, the cap can be an obstacle for the sling.
I really have to test the whole thing!
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #7 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 11:56am
 
You may have to become an archer. Cry 

If the hat is thick enough and padded enough, it looks like it is ment to deflect a projectile or a blow off the head and onto the top of the shoulder.  Are you sure there wasn't any armor on top of the shoulder?  Possibly a thick strap of leather sewn on the top of the tunic?  Or just some extra layers of thick cloth?  Some of the contempory Greek armor was several layers of cloth that was glued together, it was allowed to harden and was apparently very effictive.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #8 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 12:25pm
 
Yeah, that was the linothorax!
It was exported and used in Italy too, but I was unable to find any evidence of such armor used together with that cap.
Moreover, every source I've found show how this kind of cap was used both in peace and in war.
In peace, because we have the bark conic cap put in a woman's grave dating 8th Century and an unarmed male's pottery figure dating 5th C.
In war, because we have the copper conic cap found in Northern Italy with signs of damages, dating 7th C. and the famous Stele di Novilara (of which we've been discussing here) showing conical head protections together with shields, dating 5th C.
I can't become an archer because there're much less evidences of archery (2 graves) than slinging (a stele showing many slingers, a grave and multiple more recent lead glans).
I'm in a hurry now but will take up the discussion again later!
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Caldou
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #9 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 5:36pm
 
Dan wrote on Feb 5th, 2013 at 2:34pm:
I think it needs some dirt to give it a more ancient 'laborer/warrior" look. Smiley

Even labourer can wear some brand new clothes Wink
It will dirty by itself after a few trips in the forest ^^

Fundibularius wrote on Feb 7th, 2013 at 1:32am:
I have some doubts concerning the upward pointed shape of the hat, though, at least for a slinger. I'm almost sure you cannot do an overhead throw without risking to knock it off or tangling up your sling. Even rotating behind your back might get you in trouble when you incline the rotor forward.

No problem with a Fig. 8, a simple underhand or even straight overhand.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #10 - Feb 7th, 2013 at 9:06pm
 
Here's a thought, could Caldou have just rediscovered how slingers actually threw at that time? I think that it actually makes a great deal of sense and sounds quite logical, it lets the slinger throw while wearing the correct clothing of the time. Possibly Mauro should write a paper about his findings.
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Fundibularius
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #11 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 3:24am
 
Caldou wrote on Feb 7th, 2013 at 5:36pm:
No problem with a Fig. 8, a simple underhand or even straight overhand.


Maybe, but without going into detail about the advantages and disadvantages of fig.8 and the other two methods, why sacrifice versatility in slinging styles for a pointed or crested hat/helmet? And do not show most antique pictures people slinging overhead?

Compare the current thread http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360162104

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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
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Caldou
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #12 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 4:58am
 
If I'm not mistaken, no antique picture show people in a slinging motion. They're all readying their shots Wink

And why choosing one style to specialise into and wearing some fancy protection over being able to sling using 10 differents style with a less deflecting protection ? I don't really know Roll Eyes

Please keep in mind that I never wanted to say those people definitly use one of those style, only that it's possible to sling with those helmets on Smiley

Even an apache style would work (but not with the starting position they show on the greek side of the world)
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« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2013 at 8:43pm by Caldou »  

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wanderer
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #13 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 5:43am
 
Personally I think it is quite possible, or even likely, that the classic Greek throw was a figure-8. There is nothing in the initial pose illustrated on coins to preclude that.

Also, what we call the 'Greek' style here was a hypothetical reconstruction made in the early days of this forum. It has no historical source whatever, save the images on Greek coins of the starting position. A lot of us carry images in our head of slinging involving whirling around the head, and I think that influenced the reconstruction more than it might now.

There is very little necessity to whirl the sling over the head, and to do so seems to me to carry very little benefit, except possible necessity with a long sling.



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Fundibularius
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Re: Reconstruction of a hypothetical Picenian slin
Reply #14 - Feb 8th, 2013 at 6:15am
 
Would not "stretching" the sling before a fig8 rather be in a vertical instead of a horizontal position? That's what I would do, anyway.

I don't want to say that fig8 or the other two styles didn't exist back then, but my opinion is that overhead was far more common due to a number of reasons. And, sorry, I don't mean what is usually called "Greek" style here by saying "overhead". Helicopter is the word (several rotations above your throwing shoulder, with variable angles).

Our gallery of antique slingers  http://slinging.org/index.php?mact=Album,m5,default,1&m5albumid=4&m5returnid=53&... shows some of them in full action. The only ones who wear "high" head gear are the Assyrians, all others have flat helmets or caps or hair nets on or even go bare-headed.
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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
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