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DAN / Sling Crafter 4 Petition (Read 5627 times)
Dan
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DAN / Sling Crafter 4 Petition
Jan 30th, 2013 at 9:59am
 
Allright Lightslinger, I'll help you break the Ice.

Going for Sling Crafter 4:

Here are few different kinds of slings I've made. I've also got around 40 others but this are the fundemental different kinds. I've taught one of my friends to make several different kinds of slings (simple, apache, and split braided) and I made a tutorial for the first sling, the 'tut-atatl'. And I've used all of them for dozens to thousands of shots.

...

...

...

...

...

And here is the sling you've all been waiting for...

...

...

Its a very heavy duty Balearic style sling made from raw agave type plant I gathered. This sling was made under 'survival' conditions with only a small knife and a rock for seperarting fibers. 5 strand braid. I made it last summer so the fibers get pretty stiff but if you just wet down the sling real quick its ready to go. Its actually a bit heavier than I'd prefer (If I were to make it a little lighter, it'd probably perform better) but it still throws real well. I could still throw a good rock 100 yards with it and it'll last a long time.
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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2013 at 3:42am by LightSlinger »  

"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8
 
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 1:27am
 
  You've got my vote Dan!  Very nice work on all of these Slings.  

  The last one is not what I would call a "thing of Beauty" exactly (at least not in appearance) but it definately looks functional.  I think it represents your mastery of sling crafting not only because of the level of difficulty in using only raw materials with few tools, but in the application of recognizable techniques during it's crafting.  Tapering on both cords for example, and the invisible blending of shorter strands into the work (as I'm sure you didn't start with fibers 8+meters long).
   
    Bravo Zulu!
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 1:37am
 
Dan is Zulu42????
Anyway.. I think those are great beyond description.
I like the one that is similar to the ones Pikaru makes... been waiting for a tutorial!
Il post mine tomm.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 1:46am
 
Don't forget to vote!
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 5:35am
 
I'll be honest: I voted no.

And now I have to explain my decision.

Maybe I'm a bit a hard judge but this sling is missing some finer details which I would like to see in a "master piece".
Lets have a look at the requirements:
Quote:
All level three requirements / Make a Sling with a high complexity level, Difficulty, or with a unique Material(s) or all three...

Let's focus first on the complexity level & difficulty: If I see it correctly this is a three strand braid (I'm not sure about that), which is the simplest way you can braid a sling. A further, more important, point is the "belly". I myself figured out just recently (and other members did so before!) that there are "better" ways than laying the strands on top of each other. Of a master I expect to be aware of such possibilities and to apply some of these advanced methods. Especially with raw fibers there seems to be a huge range of such techniques.

Now the point "Unique material": Here I also gave a no, but it is clearly the the strongest point of this sling. I gave a no, because agave is known as a fiberplant. Therefore the material is not unique. If you want to get a Yes in this category you have to get fibers out of something I would have said: no way to do that!

Please don't misunderstand me. This sling is good work! Work which not everyone is able to do. But it is not throwing me of the rocker, which I expect from a masterpiece. I miss the last little kick.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 7:05am
 
Hmm, tricky one.

I'm kind of with teg on this. They are all workmanlike slings, but none of them have that 'wow' factor.
Plus with the exception of the material and braid they are all almost identical style slings. Yep that's what you like to use Dan. But for a master award I'd like to see a lot more a variety in finger loops, colours and release tabs.
Not one single sliding finger loop in the lot - that I can see.

I'll give you a 3.5 Smiley  

I know that is serious nit picking. But this is the highest award for making slings, so I feel it needs to be earned with something that little bit 'special'.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 10:15am
 
I personally don't even consider myself a sling making "master", but my slings matched up with the guidlines. 5 slings that you make and use regularly, and 1 sling of unique materials or complexity or difficulty.

I asked to confirm if the last sling was up to standards in previous thread and got the replies:

LightSlinger wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 5:08pm:
Dan wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 3:04pm:
I think he means down right raw material slings. Straight from the cow or the woods.  Smiley

I've got one entirely made from raw agave and I think tinmann has some from grass. I think it'd be something along those lines.

Because dang near every slinger has a sling that is made from jute and leather so that'd be like participation award.   Smiley


Exactly Dan!  Can you, wearing nothing but your undies, go off into the wild and craft up a sling?  You want to butcher a cow for the leather?  Okie dokie, but you can't buy it from somewhere!  Maybe I should call it a "survival sling" instead of saying "all natural materials".



And from Pikaru "I think the criteria should be that you harvested your materials, processed them, then made a working sling"

And nobody disagreed then. By those guide lines, my sling matches perfectly. Just sayin'.

Also, its a 5 strand braid (looks a lot better than a 3 IME, I can also do a 4 flat and round, and 5 which can be used for pretty much any odd number), and I have a couple slings with sliding finger loops, I don't really like them. I also have about 40 other slings of various styles that I could post (some are nicer than the pics I posted) but the requirement was just for 5 slings and these were the pics already in photobucket.

I have a the same style sling in Manilla, which AFAIK hasn't been used for a sling before, which I disassembled a 1inch thick 2.5 feet long piece of rope for and then took the fibers and used a 5 strand to make the same style sling (which is a little nicer). Once you have the knowledge, you can make them with pretty much anything. I thought the agave was more unique though.


In conclusion, I am indifferent to what level sling maker I am. I know I am not a master sling maker but they are just numbers anyway, and the sling crafter was the first requirement I looked at and I figured this thread could use some jump starting. Having the number does not make you a master and not having the number does not mean you are not a master, its just soemething fun to aim for. Its what's in your head that counts.

Whetever you guys decide is fine with me.  Smiley

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"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8
 
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #7 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 10:29am
 
I actually agree with Dan on this one.  He satisfied the rules and guidelines with his submissions, If the moderator doesn't think they're masterworthy, and then slinging org agrees...then there is a serious flaw with the rules and guidelines.  This whole thing is still in it's infancy and we should all have expected it to be not without it's flaws and kinks.

Dan definitely qualifies for level 3...no question about that.  I'm sure Dan can come up with a more finished masterclass sling....we want this mastery thing to mean something, not everyone here will be able to get that trophy, and rightfully so.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #8 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 10:38am
 
Have to vote yes.   The guidelines do not seem to say "create a museum quality set of slings".  My reading of the guidelines suggests that these slings more than meet them.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #9 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 11:31am
 
Mhh... In my vote and reasoning I oriented myself at the post from LightSlinger in the requirements thread:

LightSlinger wrote on Jan 17th, 2013 at 4:58am:
CRAFTING ACHIEVEMENTS


“SLING CRAFTER 1-4”

Requirements

Level 1: Craft a sling and use it. / Post picture of the crafted sling.

Level 2: Craft three different types of slings / Use them / post pics of them.

Level 3: Craft Five different types of slings / Use all of them / Post Pics / teach someone to make a sling or post a tutorial on how to make one.

Level 4 (Master):  All level three requirements / Make a Sling with a high complexity level, Difficulty, or with a unique Material(s) or all three...  The Master Level Review will be posted on the board as a poll lasting for three days.  During this time, all members of the Organization may vote on whether or not the sling qualifies.)

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I guess you maybe missed that the requirements were changed from "a sling made out of natural materials" to the above. As far as I know Dan's request was made when the requirements were still in their old form and therefore I guess light slinger's answer was also made for the old requirements (which Dan would have satisfied).

May I cite some other post from the thread "crafting levels" (Brett, Dan, Arcane: Do you refer to this thread as the guidelines?)

LightSlinger wrote on Jan 25th, 2013 at 2:57pm:
Pikåru wrote on Jan 25th, 2013 at 1:36pm:
Peer board can be subjective. Make the rules and stick to them. If they need to be amened, then make amendments to the rule.


  True.  That is originally why I did not write the requirements to allow for a peer based review.  However upon further consideration I realized that to be considered a Master is not always the determination of one, but of many.  It was the intent of the ranking system to be a way to recognize each others overall contributions, work, skill and dedication to the Art.

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First: I think that Dan qualifies for level 3. That certainly.
Second: Pikaru is absolutely right. Peer based is always subjective. But I think that such things as crafting classes / awards can not be given objectively. It's like Figure skating or acrobatics. I never saw that all judges gave the same number.

However, I said what I oriented myself at and I hope you can understand my reasoning. I have not considered the overall board of slings, as it is not asked for in the requirements.
I think we will have to fine tune the rules again. Don't ask me how as I have no idea on how to do it.

Oh yes, apologies for the 3 strand braid. As I said in the bracket I was not completely sure. However, regarding complexity it is not a big difference.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #10 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 11:56am
 
   I'm not sure what to do.  He did meet the requirements but I sort of agree with c_a also.  Dan's slings are all of good solid workmanship, but do they put Dan in the same league as someone like, for example, Timothy Potter?  I think we need to fine tune the wording a of the requirements for the Master level a bit.  Is it for someone who, as in Dan's case, very comfortable making good, solid, functional slings of many different designs, or should it be reserved for the best of the best of us??  I'm not going to vote because I'm exactly on the fence with this.  Sorry, Dan, but knowing you as I do I'm sure you'd want me to be honest.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #11 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 12:00pm
 
No offence taken and I personally was actually a bit split as to whether to apply for 4.

I knew I qualified for 3, and I had a sling which had been made from raw materials so I figured I'd give it a try. I'm totatly cool with 3 or 3.5 if that's what the majority decides.

I am capable of taking an honest opinion more than most and people coddling me or trying to comfort me is pretty annoying so don't hold anything back.

That quote from that you have from light slinger was last edited 10 minutes before he said the raw material "survival sling" was an acceptable sling. So I didn't think I that I had missed the point.

Peer board is definitely part of the rules so what the majority decides is what goes, as long as everyone understands the guidelines I don't think you can do it any other way. I'm cool with that.

I can't weave very well, but this guy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouNR6djZy4&feature=related whom I would consider a sling making master doesn't use any fancy braids or weaving either. Just a simple 5 strand braid with raw materials.

A peruvian sling is absolutely beautiful and made with a complex weave and braid, but the materials were most likly bought a craft store already in cordage form.

IDK, its something that's very subjective but that's okay. If we get enough subjective opinons it'll be almost objectve.  Wink

Again, I'm cool with either way yall vote, but do your best to read over the data before making a decision so we can make this more clear in the future. Its a new system, a prototype, so we are still working out the kinks, any help doning that is productive and appreciated.

Would a 5th level be appropriate? Lets say 3rd is above avearge sling maker, 4th undserstands all the fundemantals and has applied them, and 5th is the sublime sling maker, those who take sling making to a new level, like hubert, Jaegoor or Timothy Potter.

What do you think?
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #12 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 1:55pm
 
Well as a mammal with 5 manipulatory digits on each arm. I'm more into decimal based systems anyway - so five levels makes more sense than 4.

So yeah I'd go for that.

It doesn't seem right to put your sling in the same category as one of jaegoors multi pouch creations, or matthias's first compounbd sling or matthias's pistol whip sling. 
WE need a category that caters to the mad genius Thumbs Up

So - yep you can have a four and we'll add a five Thumbs Up

Well I say 'we' I really mean lightslinger  Grin
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #13 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 2:44pm
 
I would vote for that if it were put to a vote.  Leave 4 the way it is but make a 5th category for people like... you know who they are.  I hate to list the master sling makers here, the real artists,  because I always forget someone.
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Re: SUBMIT RANKING AND MERIT AWARD PETITIONS HERE
Reply #14 - Jan 31st, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
Dan wrote on Jan 31st, 2013 at 12:00pm:
...
That quote from that you have from light slinger was last edited 10 minutes before he said the raw material "survival sling" was an acceptable sling. So I didn't think I that I had missed the point.
...


No, this post I quoted was written ten minutes before.

For the last modified see the bottom left of the original post which says:
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2013, 1:24am by LightSlinger »
This is 7 days later.

But I'm not LightSlinger and therefore I don't know on what he answered  Wink.

So, and now I will stay quiet as this is no discussion thread but a promotion thread. Smiley
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