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dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls (Read 10653 times)
Paleoarts
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dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Nov 12th, 2012 at 8:04pm
 
the atlatl, or spear thrower, is one of mankinds oldest weapons systems and one of the least known in modern times. as a result, there is a lot of confusion and bad information out there concerning them and how they work. i'm here to put some of these myths and theories to rest and to hopefully provide our members with some solid and practical info.

first, let me start by saying that i have been making and using atlatls for about 30 years and have been doing it as a profession for about 10. i've made atlatls for several television programs such as the History Channel's Top Shot and some upcoming films. i'm a board member of the WAA (world atlatl association) and organizer of countless atlatl meets and tournaments. i'm also a veteran atlatl hunter so i think i'm fairly qualified to speak on the matter but by no means the difinitive 'last word'.

what is an atlatl? well, most people will tell you that it is a two part system consisting of a thrower (atlatl) and a spear (dart). i would correct them and say that there are three parts...the atlatl, the dart, and the person doing the throwing. much like the sling, the atlatl depends heavily on the form and technique of the person weilding it. i've heard many people decry a certain type of atlatl over another based on their own personal experience when nine times out of ten it isn't the gear but simply a matter of bad form. learning proper technique with whatever style of thrower you have is key to making the system work.

let's put some common misconceptions to rest, shall we.

1. 'the atlatl works by spring energy'. i hear this one a lot. the theory states that the flexing of the dart stores energy that is released at the apex of the throw, thus 'springing' the dart off the spur and giving the system it great power. nonsense! nearly all darts, both in the historic and archaeological record as well as modern gear, spine out at somewhere between 4 and 15 lbs. with 6-12lbs being the average. what that means is that if you put the tip on a scale and press down on the rear until the dart flexes, it will register a certain maximum poundage and no more no matter how hard you push. a simple way to test the 'spring theory' is that if you were to place a 10lbs dart on the ground tip first and flex it to maximum and then suddenly release it, it wouldn't jump off the ground more than an inch or two. not much 'spring energy' there. the more difinitive way is to film someoene throwing with a high speed camera, which we have done numerous times. this will show you that in every case the dart leaves the spur fully flexed and only deflexes after release. so much for 'spring theory'.

2. 'the longer the atlatl, the more powerful it is'. not true. the length of the atlatl is directly tied to several factors the most important being the length and flexibility of the dart, but also the throwing style of the user. there is a finite window for both how short and how long an atlatl can be before it loses efficiency. most throwers, ancient and modern, fall somewhere in the 22'' to 28'' range. there are atlatls from Australia that reach up to 36'', but they also have 11' spears to go with them as well as a very specific throwing technique. there's also a type of atlatl from central america that is only 11'' long but, again, it is specialized equipment and requires a specialized dart and throwing style. no, the power of the system comes when you have properly matched gear and can use it well.

3.'it's the oscillation of the dart in flight that causes air drag and stabilizes it'.  no, not really. it is the ability of the dart to flex that allows the point (which wants to stay where it's at) and the rear (which is being pushed) to stay in line with each other in respect to the target and the dart as a whole to follow a straight path. if a dart were not flexible then the point would vere away from the direction the rear was being pushed resulting in a tail up or tail down flight path. fletchings on darts do create drag, just like arrows, and help to create a straighter flight path but they are not critical. Australian natives have been using fletchless darts for tens of thousands of years to great effect.

4. 'heavier solid wood darts hit harder and are better for hunting'. poppycock! just like firearms, it's about velocity and accuracy and not shear mass that determine penetration. i can tell you from personal experience that light weight composite darts can be just as or more lethal than heavy solid wood ones can. for instance, i put one of my 7' cane darts through the chest of a deer nearly to the fletchings at something approaching 30 yards. and that was using a stone tip. the Basketmaker II culture of the southwest used tiny little 5-6' darts to bring down big horn sheep and elk! so it isn't about mass but rather speed and accuracy which, again, is attained by balanced and tuned equipment used properly.
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Rofriedrich
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #1 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 8:10pm
 
I saw that episode of Top Shot. Cool to know those were your creations.
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Paleoarts
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #2 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 8:26pm
 
5. 'short/long darts are more accurate'. not completely true one way or the other. again, it depends on the flexibility of the darts in question, the type and size of the atlatl, and the technique being used. i will say this, though. longer darts have a longer flex time. that is it takes them longer to reach their maximum flex so if you have a long wind-up and stroke like i do then it is to your advantage to have longer darts. now if you are using a type of atlatl or throwing style, such as the BMII's, that have a shorter stroke then shorter darts might be more efficient. whichever the case it is important that your darts be spined thus that they reach maximum flex just prior to the release point. too early and they will be inaccurate. too late and you'll lose power.

6. 'weights cause your atlatl to flex and add more power/make you more accurate'. there is no evidence for either of these. historicaly, weights have been attached to both flexible and inflexible atlatls thus contradicting both theories. it's far more likely they were used as counter balances, devices that enable a hunter to keep his dart tip up and on target with little effort. my friend Justin Garnett (Basketmaker II on paleoplanet) had the chance to examine and handle several of the atlatls in the Peabody Museum collection, including some with weights, and he confirmed that with the darts (found with them) loaded they balanced out perfectly just in front of the handle.

these are just some of the falsehoods i hear about the mighty atlat but all i will address at the moment. if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Chris Henry/paleoarts
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Atlatlista
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #3 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 8:36pm
 
Where are your sources for the spine weights of ethnographic atlatl darts?  I'm very curious, as I think this is an extremely important issue in the serious study of atlatls - probably the most important, and it hasn't been addressed by anthropologists yet.  My theory is that all ethnographic darts, though ranging widely in size and thickness, fall in a narrow range of spine weights.  However, to my knowledge, no such research has ever been done.  Certainly, museums wouldn't permit such abuse of their artifacts.  So, where is your information coming from?
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Bill Skinner
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #4 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 9:46pm
 
If you make an exact copy of a historic dart and test it , you will get an idea of the spine.  If you make a couple of thousand darts, you will have a much better idea.  If you make them for a living for 10 years or so, you should have a really excellant idea of what it takes to make a working dart.

I would like to respectfully disagree with the statement about heavy hardwood darts.  I have found that I need the mass of the heavier dart to get complete penetration on deer sized animals.  I would also like to add that my brain dead Conservation Dept states that I have to use a 2 INCH WIDE POINT!!! (5cm)  If I could use a normal steel arrowhead or a historically accurate stone point, I would agree with you.
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Atlatlista
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #5 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 10:40pm
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Nov 12th, 2012 at 9:46pm:
If you make an exact copy of a historic dart and test it , you will get an idea of the spine.  If you make a couple of thousand darts, you will have a much better idea.  If you make them for a living for 10 years or so, you should have a really excellant idea of what it takes to make a working dart.


I don't disagree, Bill, but to do that, you have to have meticulous measurements of the dart as well as have certain knowledge of its material.  So, if that's been done, he'll be able to share with me those measurements and the material types, and the museum examples on which those measurements were taken.

I think people often take it amiss when people ask for sources, as though it's challenging them, or denying the statements they've made.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I've been in agreement with his line of thinking for a long time, but as a scientist I haven't yet undertaken the research to prove it.  For me, that's a necessary step.  If he's already done a lot of the research, I'd love to see what he's come up with.  It'll make my life a lot easier if I ever want to write a paper on the subject.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #6 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 9:44am
 
it's an excellent question. short answer? replication. several people have explored this issue that i know of, but to date nothing has been written up officially...yet. Jim Winn, a very famous knapper and atlatl enthusiast from orange county, CA has taken several trips to Australia and documented the length and materials of both museum and modern use darts. Justin Garnett, like i said, was able to explore the Peabody Museum's extensive collection of BMII atlatls and darts. he took exact measurements of everything and noted the materials where they were listed. since the climate of the great basin is little changed since the time of the Basketmakers, it wasn't to difficult to identify shaft material that was unlisted. there are several people that i know of who are currently producing replicas of the darts that are being discovered in the melting ice packs of Canada and Alaska. Ray Madden, the patron saint of all things atlatl, has personally gone to New Guinia several times and explored their atlatls and darts. he not only brought back a wealth of knowledge but several working examples. there was a paleoplanet member, and i'm sorry i forgot his name, who reproduced the long bird darts of Mexico based on films from the 1930's. there's also several examples of enthusiests from around the world researching their local museum pieces and archival footage and producing matching replicas from local materials and in nearly every case the spine weights fall within that magic window. as for my self, i have made and used darts from every concievable material that i could get my hands on and found that the length, diameter, degree of taper, or any other factor doesn't mean much as long as the spine weight falls in that magic window. a 4' 6'' reed dart and a 9' eucalyptus shaft will fly equally well as long as they are of similar spine.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #7 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 10:02am
 
oh, and Bill, i respect your opinion on the heavy wood shafts but i bet that if i could get together with you and train you in the use of one of my paddle grips and 7' tonkin cane darts, i just might change your mind. a good example was last years Valley of Fire gathering where the wind was particularly strong. the last day i was throwing against Doug Basset, arguably the best atlatlist in the world, and his 7' Bob Berg ash shafts were going all over the place where mine were still flying flat and straight. we attributed this to the speed at which my darts were flying compared to his. it's the only time in three years i was able to beat him! penetration, aside from point type, is a matter of mass and velocity. there's a balance that must be acheived between the two to get the maximum effect. too much mass and you lose velocity. too little mass and you lose punch power. if you're able to fling a heavy dart fast enough to get good penetration, then you're able to throw a lighter dart that much faster and with better control, equaling or exceeding that of the heavy darts.
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Pikåru
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #8 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 10:47am
 
WOW! Facinating read. Thank you.
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Atlatlista
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 11:44am
 
Also, in a strong wind, ceteris paribus, the winner is going to be the guy with the skinny shaft.  That's why in field archery, we bust out the super skinny carbon shafts for outdoor and use the fat line-breakers for indoor.  The fat shaft has more area to get pushed around by the wind than the skinny one does, so outdoors, fat shafts tend to have a much stronger issue with winds.

Thanks for your answer on my questions, btw.  I'm definitely going to undertake a serious scientific study of atlatl dart shafts in the near future, recording measurements and materials, and then replicating them precisely to assess spine.  I think you're absolutely right about spine being the most important key to proper dart flight, and it'll be nice to have the magic numbers well-established in a published paper for everyone to get a chance to read and benefit from.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #10 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 11:45am
 
Seriously !!! You could not have posted this at a better time. I've been frustrated with my slinging recently. My accuracy sucks. I just can't get that Zen-flow. The harder i try to achieve it, the further away from iti go. So,

I decided to give up Slinging for the next month or 2 and concentrate on something else. The atlatl.

I started making my first throwing arm yesterday. I am still trying to figure out how to make it the right way.

Your post will give me much guidence. Thank you very much!!!
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Atlatlista
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #11 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 11:47am
 
I know I'll get kicked off the forums for saying this, but I'm not sure you can ever achieve true long-distance accuracy with a sling - not like you can with a bow, or even an atlatl.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #12 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 12:01pm
 
You're right. Generally most slingers will not and maybe no slinger will. I don't know atlatls. Only made one as a boy and went back to the bow. Even a mediocre archer can usually hit a square meter sized object from different distances in varied terrain. That can't always be done with a sling.

There are people who are good, no doubts there but you're still never going to be as accurate with a sling as you can be with a bow or an atlatl as suggested.

In a survival situation I would choose a throwing stick to hit small game before my sling. I use my sling to hunt, but mostly to flush game out of the brush so I can shoot it with something much more reliable and accurate.

The slinging competitions... fixed targets, fixed shot, fixed slings and fixed distances. With practice, as long as everything stays the same you can hit a target with more consistancy but I'm with you Atlatlista, you're not going to have the same accuracy with a sling as you will with other many other weapons including one of the oldest weapons, a stick.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #13 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 12:09pm
 
Chris, I agree completely, I love cane darts and I would much prefer to use them, particularly the slimmer shafts that Alina mentioned.  Not only do they fly in the wind better, they penetrate much better due to less surface area, therefore less drag as they go through tissue.  Problem is that point, it causes noticeable droop in the ash, it really bends the cane.  I was experimenting with Simmons Sharks, an arrow head that was 2 inches wide, except the company changed owners a couple of times, the current point is now primarily set up to go on either an 11/32 shaft or a metal adaptor and be screwed into a carbon arrow and the socket is too small to work on a dart now.  It breaks at the end of the socket when the dart flexes  when it hits the target.  After I looked at your shark darts, I am going to make a foreshaft of a piece of fiberglass fish arrow, with the correct taper for the arrow head and mount it in a cane shaft.  The only problem I see will be smothing out the junction where the shaft will sit down in the cane.

And FWIW, I have been using Bobs' darts for hunting for about 11 years, I KNOW they will penetrate all the way to the fletches on deer and hogs.  Alabama was the first state to legalize hunting with a spear, and that included atlatls and darts.
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Re: dispelling some misconceptions about atlatls
Reply #14 - Nov 13th, 2012 at 12:22pm
 
I'm not into atlatl's like some of you guys, but that was an interesting read.  Especially the part about it having nothing to do with spring energy. Thanks for posting Paleo.
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