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Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction (Read 2005 times)
HurlinThom
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Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Jul 26th, 2012, 12:54pm  
My latest project "Brutus". Actually started two years back but was put on hold. The frame is a little over 5 feet (1,5 meters) high and 6 feet long. Just fits in my truck bed and under my carport when in the truck. Construction is Douglas Fir, main members 2X6s and 2X4s, with some salvaged wood from discared furniture (Ikea, made in Finland) added in to the mix. It's heavy; I can just lift the frame itself. It's intended for launching small pumpkins at targets, to take over that task from the red, white, and blue one that couldn't quite launch them far enough to satisfy me.  
 
Hasn't been shot yet, just one dry-fire with reduced counterweight to test the trigger. I have a curious situation of having the full counterweight set up but not an arm strong enough to use that and a medium-duty arm without a corresponding counterweight setup. The latter is easier to make. The full CW is a but much to move if you're not doing serious work.  
 
And it will have a sling, of course.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2012, 1:54pm  
Very nice. One day I'll make it to punkin chunkin with something like that.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2012, 3:02pm  
So i guess the CW weights about 40-50 kg undecided Why not MURLIN?
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2012, 3:03pm  
This's nice as always Thom, and I'm going to move it on one of the existing topics talking about trebuchets  Smiley
Greetings,
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HurlinThom
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Re: New trebuchet
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2012, 4:15pm  
Mauro, this is the full-sized Brutus, which is why I started a new topic for it. The post you moved it to is Baby Brute, the half-sized prototype. I'll shoot a photo with both and post it.
 
Someday I'll try my hand at a MURLIN. It's one new system that I really admire, very efficient in turning gravitational potential energy stored in the counterweight into kinetic energy in the payload. It works on a very different principle and requires a special frame. Normal projectile for MURLINs seems to be baseballs, maybe 1/6 of a kilo.  
 
This frame will function as a plain hinged-counterweight treb, a whipper, or a King Arthur OR as my own Lobbit system, which is my plan for it at the moment.  
 
Planned counterweight is to be 230 to 240 pounds, 105 to 110 kg. Depends if I replace a couple of 5 pound plates with spacers to tilt the CW out more.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2012, 4:25pm  
If you think this should be separate I'll oblige. We mostly try to consolidate pics only threads anyway. So what's the secret of MURLIN?
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2012, 5:23pm  
All right Thom, then I'm going to add this topic to the Index  Smiley
Greetings,
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #7 - Jul 26th, 2012, 6:43pm  
Quote from Mauro Fiorentini on Jul 26th, 2012, 5:23pm:
All right Thom, then I'm going to add this topic to the Index  Smiley
Greetings,
Mauro.

Index librorum prohibitorum?
 
I really didn't want to make an issue of this, but did think a fresh topic was warranted. Here's the photo comparing the two. And I have a video of the first throw up on YouTube now.
 
http://youtu.be/zZLJWwySK7U
 
Masi, the MURLIN was devised by Leonard Vance, a professor of physics at the University of Arizona (or is it Arizona State U?) as an attempt at extreme efficiency. The counterweight is remotely mounted on a cable and maintains a pull nearly at 90 degrees to the fulcrum throughout its drop. It's sort of like what's called a wheel treb except that the wheel lacks a rim and the "spokes" are of lengths calculated to give optimum leverage in accordance with the amount of resistance the arm and sling are giving at a given point of arm rotation.  It works like a bandit. It's not to be confused with the earlier (Magic of) Merlin treb, a big Punkin Chunkin competitor that has never lived up to its potential.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #8 - Jul 26th, 2012, 7:07pm  
The index was a reference to something we've been discussing in the moderators' area of the forum.
Quote from Mauro Fiorentini on Apr 9th, 2012, 7:17pm:
Hallo guys,
these days I've been thinking about how to increase the forum's usability.
Now that these spammers are no more trouble, we had a lot of new members, and I noticed that some of them have opened new threads about matters that had already been discussed.
Others also contacted me asking about metal working, which is another matter we already discussed on related topics.

So here's my proposal to facilitate the forum's usability: why don't we create an index of such topics?
I'll try to better explain my idea using examples: we could gather all topics discussing of a certain matter (example: working metal, hardening leather, re-enactment, stone working, etc...), and divide them into groups; collect these groups into an "Index" topic in the "Other" section, and it's done.
I would hire the burden and the honor to look for, group and organize these topic's links into a .doc file, and send it to C_A for the final translation in web language.

Perhaps it's not so important, because the forum's legibility is not compromised: it's more a question of order, and it may come in handy for new members, as well as for elder ones.
Greetings,
Mauro.

Keeping your topic separate isn't an issue Thom, we just didn't realize that your chucker was different from the one in the previous topic.
 
That MURLIN treb sounds interesting. I always like hearing about recent innovations to ancient tech.
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #9 - Jul 26th, 2012, 8:38pm  
Here's a link to a video on MURLINS, by the innovator. Lots if info.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7mB5iftarQ
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #10 - Jul 26th, 2012, 9:31pm  
I understood that until he got to the energy budget at 5:59, then it went over my head. I can calculate an energy balance for a small system but that's a lot of variables to take into account for the inefficiencies of the Treb. It would make an amazing pumpkin chucker if you can come up with an easier way of loading the pouch. Because of the way the sling hangs upside down until near the end of the swing, I think you're going to have trouble holding the pumpkins down. *The analysis of someone who hasn't touched a Treb in 8 years.
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #11 - Jul 26th, 2012, 10:31pm  
Quote from Masiakasaurus on Jul 26th, 2012, 9:31pm:
I understood that until he got to the energy budget at 5:59, then it went over my head. I can calculate an energy balance for a small system but that's a lot of variables to take into account for the inefficiencies of the Treb. It would make an amazing pumpkin chucker if you can come up with an easier way of loading the pouch. Because of the way the sling hangs upside down until near the end of the swing, I think you're going to have trouble holding the pumpkins down. *The analysis of someone who hasn't touched a Treb in 8 years.

That's a whipper-style sling deployment. It's necessary to support the payload until it's time for it to swing out or the free end of the sling comes free too early and the payload exits the pouch straight down. There are static and dynamic holding systems. De-pouching is embarrassing and the resulting dry fire is hard on the machine, particularly the axle.
 
My eyes tend to glaze over when too many numbers get tossed around. 'rithmetic and a little simple geometry do me fine; haven't touched a math book since about 1960.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #12 - Jul 27th, 2012, 2:20pm  
Thom, that is totally cool!
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2012, 3:35pm  
Quote from Rat Man on Jul 27th, 2012, 2:20pm:
Thom, that is totally cool!

I now face the situation of having not enough room for these things. Two or three must go. The PVC one, the one in my avatar, and ???
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #14 - Jul 29th, 2012, 8:51am  
Hurlin Thom is not new to the rodeo but has plenty of expertly designed and constructed trebs of all sizes.
HT also competes at Cal State, Fullerton's annual Pumokin Launch.
Brutus is one of Thom's largest and most "Brutiful" engine of smash distruction to date.
 Roll Eyes
 
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See SiegeMasters facebook page for details.
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #15 - Jul 29th, 2012, 10:17am  
Quote from ChuckRocks on Jul 29th, 2012, 8:51am:
Hurlin Thom is not new to the rodeo but has plenty of expertly designed and constructed trebs of all sizes.
HT also competes at Cal State, Fullerton's annual Pumokin Launch.
Brutus is one of Thom's largest and most "Brutiful" engine of smash distruction to date.
Roll Eyes

Note on Murlin: ldvance is currently entered in the SiegeMasters 1KFt Golfball Challenge and is bracketing the 4x8' target without yet hitting it. (1 KFt = one kilofoot = 1,000 feet)
See SiegeMasters facebook page for details.

I sort of hate to correct it when someone brags on me, but Brutus is my second-heaviest and third largest. The biggest was TrebUncouth, a foot taller and made from 2X6s. It was for a public service announcement and I actually got paid for building it.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #16 - Jul 29th, 2012, 4:18pm  
That's a great looking trebuchet.  I built (well, technically I am building) a trebuchet a bit bigger than that this summer.  I have to finish staining it and work out a good release mechanism, then it's ready to go.
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #17 - Jul 30th, 2012, 12:31pm  
Quote from Sons of benjamin on Jul 29th, 2012, 4:18pm:
That's a great looking trebuchet.  I built (well, technically I am building) a trebuchet a bit bigger than that this summer.  I have to finish staining it and work out a good release mechanism, then it's ready to go.  

If you could post photos that would be cool. I like to see what other people are doing.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #18 - Jul 30th, 2012, 11:58pm  
Okay.  I'll try to get some up soon, after I finish up a little bit of the small things that need to be done.  It REALLY needs wheels -- it probably weighs a good 200-300 lbs, and that's without the counterweight.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #19 - Aug 9th, 2012, 11:11am  
Quote from Masiakasaurus on Jul 26th, 2012, 7:07pm:
The index was a reference to something we've been discussing in the moderators' area of the forum.
Quote from Mauro Fiorentini on Apr 9th, 2012, 7:17pm:
Hallo guys,
these days I've been thinking about how to increase the forum's usability.
Now that these spammers are no more trouble, we had a lot of new members, and I noticed that some of them have opened new threads about matters that had already been discussed.
Others also contacted me asking about metal working, which is another matter we already discussed on related topics.

So here's my proposal to facilitate the forum's usability: why don't we create an index of such topics?
I'll try to better explain my idea using examples: we could gather all topics discussing of a certain matter (example: working metal, hardening leather, re-enactment, stone working, etc...), and divide them into groups; collect these groups into an "Index" topic in the "Other" section, and it's done.
I would hire the burden and the honor to look for, group and organize these topic's links into a .doc file, and send it to C_A for the final translation in web language.

Perhaps it's not so important, because the forum's legibility is not compromised: it's more a question of order, and it may come in handy for new members, as well as for elder ones.
Greetings,
Mauro.

Keeping your topic separate isn't an issue Thom, we just didn't realize that your chucker was different from the one in the previous topic.

That MURLIN treb sounds interesting. I always like hearing about recent innovations to ancient tech.

 
I just posted a tutorial (no pics- sorry) on leather hardening in the "other topics" section entitled "roman plastic". I hope someone finds this useful.
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HurlinThom
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #20 - Aug 9th, 2012, 12:06pm  
The Index is actually rather cool. I think it should be more prominent, so people would immediately search there rather than searching for an index they don't know is there, though.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #21 - Aug 15th, 2012, 7:40pm  
OK, I've finished the serious arm for the new trebuchet. You can view a video of it on the Eastvale facebook page:
 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eastvale-Trebuchet-Works/171742209532086?created
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #22 - Aug 25th, 2012, 6:36am  
The police haven't been by to talk to you about your "weapon"? It's been known to happen.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #23 - Aug 25th, 2012, 11:14am  
Quote from slingbadger on Aug 25th, 2012, 6:36am:
The police haven't been by to talk to you about your "weapon"? It's been known to happen.

It's not visible from the street and I've had no incidents where the cops have been brought in. So far. As long as I limit my throwing to tennis balls there should be no big problems. For the heavier payloads I go to a park with plenty of room, but that's a task, what with the amount of counterweight involved, and the dogs running loose (illegally; there's an off-leash dog park a few miles away but this bunch of owners are too snooty for that place).
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #24 - Aug 25th, 2012, 11:33am  
Quote:
The Index is actually rather cool. I think it should be more prominent, so people would immediately search there rather than searching for an index they don't know is there, though.

 
How's that - Look at the top of the page Smiley  
Right next, try and get the faqs thread up there as well Smiley  
 
 
Quote:
ldvance is currently entered in the SiegeMasters 1KFt Golfball Challenge and is bracketing the 4x8' target without yet hitting it. (1 KFt = one kilofoot = 1,000 feet)

 
So you are shooting at a target 8 feet by four feet  (2.4m x 1.2m)
At a distance of 304 metres.  
 
WOW. At that distance that is a very very small target. And given the spin and aerodynamics of a golfball, if you don't get a perfectly straight roll out the pouch, you've got no chance. The slightest angle of spin and that sucker will just curve to the side.  
I'm officially Impressed
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #25 - Aug 25th, 2012, 8:45pm  
That golf ball challenge is a real challenge. The distance isn't all that difficult (not that I've hit it, but I don't have a safe place to try; 600 feet is my max) but that target is small at that distance. Leonard Vance's machine is small but very abrupt, and I think the fact that things don't happen smoothly is part of his problem in getting enough accuracy. Along with gusty winds and other stuff.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #26 - Aug 31st, 2012, 8:54pm  
Update on Brutus. Now in patriotic battle dress paint. I was fooling around this afternoon figuring the best ways to load the counterweight onto the machine and "thingy" the arm. Got the first down OK, mainly it was a matter of setting a platform at the right height and pulling the CW assembly up a ramp using a pulley with 2:1 mechanical advantage. There's 240 pounds of barbell plates plus a bit of wood and galvanized pipe nipples, so it's a bit of a load for a geezer. There remains a lot of work to do for cocking. Looks like it needs to be done in two stages, which takes planning. Well I have maybe two months to get it right.  
 
Anyhow, here's a photo.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #27 - Sep 1st, 2012, 7:00am  
I'm glad the moderators didn't make this an add-on to a previous topic.
 
But anyway, this is the weekend of the European Pompoenschieten contest ("Punkin Chunk")
I expect to see new European records set close to the 1Kilometer mark with a 10-Lb pumpkin.
What I don't get is making gravity machines compete against bungee traction machines.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #28 - Sep 3rd, 2012, 12:01pm  
Just an addendum: Excalibur, the machine Chuck Rocks posted threw 2504 feet at the European Championships (actually pretty much the championship of West Flanders, but they have room to expand). This beats the official World Record for trebuchets by about 177 feet but won't be recognized as a new record due to conflicts in sponsoring bodies and rule differences.
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #29 - Sep 6th, 2012, 9:36am  
2504 feet = 763 metres. Which is much easier to visualise.  
I don't think I'll ever understand this obsession with measuring everything in feet- presumably - so it sounds more.  
Why not inches ? 30,048 inches sounds a helluva lot Smiley  
 
And that's a helluva long way however you put it.  Smiley
 
 
 
 
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Re: Weapon of Medi(a)eval destruction
Reply #30 - Sep 6th, 2012, 12:29pm  
CA, are you accusing me of being a foot fetishist?  
 
The distance was reported as 763.3 meters. Since the event was in Flanders they could have gone retro and said it was 1113 Flemish ells.  I used feet to make a comparison to the "official" world record which is kept in feet by the WCPC.
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