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We are sheep =D (Read 1331 times)
Jabames
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We are sheep =D
Jun 17th, 2012, 5:45am
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=my_liked_videos&list= LLs4kPibE_uAsHRS0ci9SRnA
 
More like slaves...fed with lies of "freedom",  and brainwashed to think we have to pay money the rest of our lives to serve our beloved governments...
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #1 - Jun 17th, 2012, 1:30pm
 
I meet 1000's of people from all over the world every month. The more of them i meet, the more i am convinced the world needs a good, solid apocolypse.
 
All i see is slaves walking the earth. This scares me almost as much as human greed and stupidity.
 
 Angry  Angry  Angry
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Woonilsra
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #2 - Jun 17th, 2012, 2:16pm
 
Is this basically a tirade against government? I don't see enough reasoning behind the idea to support it. Democratic countries elect their officials. The officials are not trying to control the populace they are part of the populace, trying to guide the country to what they feel is best for it. The farm analogy just doesn't compare.
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Jabames
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #3 - Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm
 
Spending trillions of dollars into deeper and deeper debt how is that guiding us in the right direction,  we should of taken oil in Iraq to pay for the war reparations,  but no with Obama now he's like i dont care imma spend even more than bush,  now hes gotten us into deeper crap,  and this endless war in Iraq and Afghanistan against enemies that are made up.  Theres no Taliban,  or Al Qaeda,  Hussein wasnt even connected to the 9/11 attack they killed em before he even got the chance to speak out.
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Woonilsra
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #4 - Jun 17th, 2012, 4:49pm
 
And that is why so many people have complained about our policies in this country. They generally try to go in a good direction. Just look, they're currently trying to find ways to bring down the debt, even if the two parties are horrible at compromise. If we had taken oil, there would have been simply more criticism. Did Obama say he doesn't care? I think that's an exaggeration. And those enemies are not made up. Al Qaeda and the Taliban are not made up enemies.
 
So guys, what are the chances government search engines have taken an interest (renewed, as I recall previous discussions about this site being watched, as we tend to be quite alternative) to us by using the words in this thread?
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"Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?"

"A sword is a weapon. The art of swordsmanship is learning how to kill. That is the truth"

"Dead!" I answered, and amiably "Murdered," the Hangman corrected me. "First the alien ... then the Jew. I did no more than you let me do."
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Bikewer
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #5 - Jun 17th, 2012, 7:51pm
 
I tried to post on this when I got up today, but I must not have had my coffee and didn't hit the "post" button....
 
As soon as I saw all the tag lines on the guy's video, I scarcely needed to watch the thing.    Yes, the world has problems.   When has this not been the case?    
For the vast majority of what we call history, the bulk of the population has lived in absolute grinding poverty and drudgery in agricultural societies.
Only the "1%" has had their butt in the butter... The kings and royalty and upper levels of the military and so forth.
Now, at least in the "first world", the vast majority of people are capable of lifespans that make those of our ancestors look puny indeed, and living in health and productivity through the vast majority of those greatly-extended lifespans.
We have plenty of food, technology that our ancestors could not even have imagined, and we know more about ourselved and the universe than our ancestors ever dreamed possible.
 
I always wonder what the folks talking about how terrible life is have in mind.   Some sort of Libertarian/Anarchist utopia, where everyone is "free" to do whatever they like?
Not in this universe.
Societies have to have rules in order to function.   For much of human history, those making the rules have held their populations in conditions of tyranny.   It's much less so today.  Not that we are devoid of tin-pot dictators, but they are considerably fewer and many of the remaining ones are trembling in their boots.
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Dan
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #6 - Jun 17th, 2012, 9:10pm
 
Not quite sure what to say here I thought it was cool how the video had captions but it seemed a little too conspiracy like to me. There's defintiely room for improvement in out country, I don't think it's going to happen, but the decline is pretty slow. The World isn't doing to hot either, don't think that's really going to improve either. Al Queda and Taliban are defintiely real.  
 
I'm pretty sure we should be more of a Repbublic, but democracy is way better than totalitarianism or a dictaroship so I'm definitely thankfull for what I have, it could be better though.  
 
People in general are definitely Sheep. A great quote about sheep:
 'An army of sheep, led by a lion, is better than an army of lions, led by a sheep'
-Alexander the Great
 
Great Leadership is incredibly important with people.
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2012, 1:39am
 
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Spending trillions of dollars into deeper and deeper debt how is that guiding us in the right direction,

We don't have as much debt as there was during and after WW2, and that was one of the highest points of the US economy.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
we should of taken oil in Iraq to pay for the war reparations,

Invade a country and then bleed it dry during the time when it should be rebuilding itself? That's a good way to lose what few international friends we have left.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
but no with Obama now he's like i dont care imma spend even more than bush,

He's only returned us to the same debt levels as there were before Clinton. In that sense, he's actually spent just as much as Bush Sr.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
now hes gotten us into deeper crap,

Not really. If Obama loses the reelection he'll be known for 2 things in the US, championing universal healthcare and overturning "don't as don't tell." The healthcare law has a fairly good chance of being deemed unconstitutional in it's present form (I LOVE how the unpopular bits are set to be phased in slowly so that people won't notice them at first... Tongue) and ditching DADT didn't change much. It was already illegal to descriminate based on sexual orientation outside of the military. Everything else was outside if Obama's hands. I think he'll be noted as being remarkably similar to Bush despite his rhetoric.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
and this endless war in Iraq and Afghanistan against enemies that are made up.

Iraq's over and done, unfortunately. I think the invasion was a bad idea, but doing a half assed job and leaving before anything gets accomplished is not the way to go. Our work in Iraq will be over when the next generation of leaders of the country look back on the school that the American soldiers built for them. We need to help them rebuild or the kids of this generation will turn out like the kids in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: angry, radical, and trained in RPG maintenance. Operation Iraqi Freedom is a repeat of the Soviet war in Afghanistan and Operation Cyclone with the US playing the part of the invader and the savior like a high school drama class that doesn't have enough actors.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Theres no Taliban,  or Al Qaeda,

Why do you say that? The Taliban was once officially recognized by 3 different countries as the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan. Al Qaeda was started because of the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The local tribes didn't have the skill, manpower, or training necessary to fight off the invading communists. The US helped by training and funding Afghans to fight and smuggled weapons through Pakistan. Saudi Arabia helped by training and funding Saudis, Pakistani, Yemenites, Kuwaitis, Iraqis, and Emirati jihadists. Osama bin Laden was one Saudi trained jihadist who used his military training after the Soviet union left to set up a militant Islamist (fundementalist theocratic) group which was called al Qaeda or "the basis" in order to influence the new Afghan government and also help muslims being oppressed in other countries. There were many foreign factions in Afghanistan fighting over whose interpretation of Islam was the best to use as the foundation for a government, not just al Qaeda. A democratic government was set up, but a long civil war instigated by these foreign factions. In the end, one local faction -the Taliban- rebelled and conquered most of Afghanistan. It's all there in the history books.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Hussein wasnt even connected to the 9/11 attack they killed em before he even got the chance to speak out.

Iraq was invaded because it was suspected of having "weapons of mass destruction" that put the US and the UK in danger, because Hussein made statements immediately after 9/11 which supported the terrorist attacks and made it seem like he had funded them, and because Hussein committed human rights violations and was wanted in international criminal courts. Turns out that Hussein had only committed the human rights violations. The other two were posturing and bluffs to make Iraq's enemies scared. Hussein didn't consider that America's reaction to his bluffing would be to attack and try to take away his weapons rather than to negotiate with him to not use them or attack us again. I refuse to feel sorry that a dictator's bluffing and posturing backfired, though.
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Jabames
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #8 - Jun 18th, 2012, 3:28am
 
Quote from Masiakasaurus on Jun 18th, 2012, 1:39am:
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Spending trillions of dollars into deeper and deeper debt how is that guiding us in the right direction,

We don't have as much debt as there was during and after WW2, and that was one of the highest points of the US economy.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
we should of taken oil in Iraq to pay for the war reparations,

Invade a country and then bleed it dry during the time when it should be rebuilding itself? That's a good way to lose what few international friends we have left.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
but no with Obama now he's like i dont care imma spend even more than bush,

He's only returned us to the same debt levels as there were before Clinton. In that sense, he's actually spent just as much as Bush Sr.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
now hes gotten us into deeper crap,

Not really. If Obama loses the reelection he'll be known for 2 things in the US, championing universal healthcare and overturning "don't as don't tell." The healthcare law has a fairly good chance of being deemed unconstitutional in it's present form (I LOVE how the unpopular bits are set to be phased in slowly so that people won't notice them at first... Tongue) and ditching DADT didn't change much. It was already illegal to descriminate based on sexual orientation outside of the military. Everything else was outside if Obama's hands. I think he'll be noted as being remarkably similar to Bush despite his rhetoric.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
and this endless war in Iraq and Afghanistan against enemies that are made up.

Iraq's over and done, unfortunately. I think the invasion was a bad idea, but doing a half assed job and leaving before anything gets accomplished is not the way to go. Our work in Iraq will be over when the next generation of leaders of the country look back on the school that the American soldiers built for them. We need to help them rebuild or the kids of this generation will turn out like the kids in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: angry, radical, and trained in RPG maintenance. Operation Iraqi Freedom is a repeat of the Soviet war in Afghanistan and Operation Cyclone with the US playing the part of the invader and the savior like a high school drama class that doesn't have enough actors.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Theres no Taliban,  or Al Qaeda,

Why do you say that? The Taliban was once officially recognized by 3 different countries as the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan. Al Qaeda was started because of the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The local tribes didn't have the skill, manpower, or training necessary to fight off the invading communists. The US helped by training and funding Afghans to fight and smuggled weapons through Pakistan. Saudi Arabia helped by training and funding Saudis, Pakistani, Yemenites, Kuwaitis, Iraqis, and Emirati jihadists. Osama bin Laden was one Saudi trained jihadist who used his military training after the Soviet union left to set up a militant Islamist (fundementalist theocratic) group which was called al Qaeda or "the basis" in order to influence the new Afghan government and also help muslims being oppressed in other countries. There were many foreign factions in Afghanistan fighting over whose interpretation of Islam was the best to use as the foundation for a government, not just al Qaeda. A democratic government was set up, but a long civil war instigated by these foreign factions. In the end, one local faction -the Taliban- rebelled and conquered most of Afghanistan. It's all there in the history books.
Quote from Little on Jun 17th, 2012, 4:41pm:
Hussein wasnt even connected to the 9/11 attack they killed em before he even got the chance to speak out.

Iraq was invaded because it was suspected of having "weapons of mass destruction" that put the US and the UK in danger, because Hussein made statements immediately after 9/11 which supported the terrorist attacks and made it seem like he had funded them, and because Hussein committed human rights violations and was wanted in international criminal courts. Turns out that Hussein had only committed the human rights violations. The other two were posturing and bluffs to make Iraq's enemies scared. Hussein didn't consider that America's reaction to his bluffing would be to attack and try to take away his weapons rather than to negotiate with him to not use them or attack us again. I refuse to feel sorry that a dictator's bluffing and posturing backfired, though.

 
Lol I guess its my research into "secret" societies(Illuminati) nd stuffs that got me into this,  why would I say some of our enemies are fake?  I would say the CIA(puppets of Illuminati) made it up and would give us something to "hate" and something to defeat(not that I'm with radical Islamists) and in turn lots of land would practically belong to us(or Illuminati "New World Order"),  So in my paranoid eyes xD the military,  government,  media are all but puppets for unknown peoples that control everything.  And anyone thats not with em they send military or special ops to snuff em out,  basically.  Anyways might be just me,  you know some Americans get off with this stuff xD,  maybe I should juss stop and don't go into it I guess...
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #9 - Jun 18th, 2012, 6:25am
 
This video fundamentally doesn't understand history.  I really hate when conspiracy nuts tell lies about history (usually to some pieter bruegel the elder paintings or some really inane video feed) and then try to draw conclusions from their lies.  
 
Specifically, Ancient Egypt didn't use direct compulsion.  Aside from the bible, there is almost no evidence of slavery existing in Ancient Egypt, and there is a lot of doubt in the historical community as to whether or not the Israelites were ever slaves within Egypt.  In fact, most Egyptologists are tending to agree these days that they were not.  The builders of the pyramids and great monuments of Egypt were not slaves, but well-paid laborers who received food, healthcare, lots and lots of beer, and other "in-kind" forms of compensation as coinage was not well-developed in the Egyptian state at the time.
 
The claim that taxes came after Rome is ridiculous.  The idea that people couldn't choose their own occupations until the very late middle ages is ridiculous.  The idea of feudalism as a coherent policy is ridiculous.  Applying it to the early middle ages (pre-1000ad) is ridiculous.  Etc, etc.
 
The whole "people are sheep" idea is very attractive to egocentric high-schoolers, but it's bullshit.  People aren't sheep.  They have a very annoying habit of being different.  Because of culture, mental wiring, or a combination thereof, people tend to be different in similar ways sometimes, but that's very different from being sheep.  If you drive a sheep off a cliff, others might follow it due to herd mentality.  If you drive a human being off a cliff, even Snooki from Jersey Shore is going to stop and tell you what a jerk you are.
 
I think what irritates me the most about the "people are sheep" statement is the sneering self-aggrandizement that comes along with it.  The statement is never just "people are sheep."  It always carries with it the not-so-subtle implication that "people are sheep, but not me, I'm a radical free-thinker who has stumbled onto this tired and cliched idea after watching a life-changing 13 minute video on youtube.  Look at how amazingly different I am."
 
I suppose the absurdist in me should find it terribly amusing, but I just don't.  Maybe it's the early hour.
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #10 - Jun 18th, 2012, 6:57am
 
well said mas and atlatllista.  
 
Except for the saddam hussein info both posts are spot on.  
 
The simple fact with iraq was that the us and uk government knew exactly what weapons saddam had - as we'd sold them to him in the first place.  
 
People seem to forget that saddam hussein was initially funded by the west. And yes we did go in after the oil - but then for some bizarre reason had to deny that and ended up empty handed and staring bankruptcy in the face.  
 
People are not sheep. As part of my job I see more actual members of the public than most people, in their own homes. And cynical as I am, over the last 20 years my opinion of the human race has risen considerably.  
 
The media and random nutters like to preach gloom and doom - but that's not how life is in the real world.  
 
In short don't believe everything you read or see - particularly if it's on the internet or in a newspaper Smiley  
 
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One - works for me Smiley
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Dan
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2012, 8:52am
 
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 18th, 2012, 6:57am:

In short don't believe everything you read or see - particularly if it's on the internet or in a newspaper Smiley  


 
Great words of wisdom.
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"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8

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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #12 - Jun 18th, 2012, 9:26am
 
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 18th, 2012, 6:57am:

People are not sheep. As part of my job I see more actual members of the public than most people, in their own homes. And cynical as I am, over the last 20 years my opinion of the human race has risen considerably.

The media and random nutters like to preach gloom and doom - but that's not how life is in the real world.
 
 
I wish I shared your optimism C_A, maybe with more experience I will.  
 
It's true that people are always decrying the end of the world, whether because of failure of moral standards as during Augustus's reign of Rome, or because of viking raids and the approaching turn of the millennium. The world is always one step away from utter destruction and the loss of our way of life according to somebody. At the same time, sometimes those people are right. The jews who ran from Germany just prior to WWII I'm sure faced a similar criticism: you're overreacting it's just rhetoric etc. But they were the ones that survived. And declining morals (or will as Nietzche and Foucault understood the term) are associated with loss of national power.  
 
It's one of the ideas I'm kicking around at the moment: people are always calling the turn. Some are wrong, some are right. There are good arguments in both camps (realistically more than two but for this argument right and wrong) as well as people smarter and more knowledgeable than I am. And that prediction can decide whether you live or die. Sure ignoring them works for the majority of the time, but sometimes it doesn't. How does a rational, intelligent person deal with that paradox?
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #13 - Jun 18th, 2012, 9:38am
 
I've been involved with "skeptical inquiry" for a long time... I've been a member of the James Randi forum for about 10 years, with close to 10,000 posts....
And a longtime reader of related literature as well.
 
Anytime I see anything related to the "Illuminati", "New World Order", secret societies, and world-wide conspiracies it's hard to keep from laughing.   We do seem to love these stories..  And people get so heavily invested in them as to beggar belief.  
Essentially, no evidence against is ever good enough, it's all just part of the conspiracy.   Even when the conspiracy would necessarily have become so extensive that nearly everyone but the believer would have to be involved.
And that is what we call paranoia.
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Re: We are sheep =D
Reply #14 - Jun 18th, 2012, 9:49am
 
No offense to the people of this forum who I do think are smart and friendly, but I've never heard of one single person smart enough or cooperative enough to keep a major conspiracy running. It would take superhuman intelligence to organize and maintain.
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