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Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight (Read 1322 times)
jlasud
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #15 - Jun 19th, 2012, 12:16am
 
Yurek,the tennis balls fly like parachutes Cheesy i prefer shiny lead,just got half bucket of lead wheel weights for cheap (~3$)
 
ArchaeoMan:hmm interesting,and about parallel to my experienced,in regard of the achievable distances  with the above mentioned ammo. What program did you use,and could you share it?
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ArchaeoMan
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #16 - Jun 19th, 2012, 12:41am
 
Jlasud:
 
I had to run the calculations by hand, using the drag equation to compute the force of drag, which divided by the mass of the object gives the deceleration.  
 
Fd = .5 x Cd x A x Vsquared  
 
Fd is force of drag
Cd is the drag coefficient. This is fairly constant across the velocities we're talking about for a biconical shape, I conservatively used 0.1. For spherical projectiles, Cd varies between around .15 to .45 at these velocities. I estimated the Cd of spheres using NASA's "Foilsim" program, which is free to use online.
A is the reference area. For some applications the surface area is used, for others cross sectional area. I used cross-section.
Finally, Fd varies by the square of velocity ( as can be seen very clearly in Yurek's graph)
 
I used a projectile mass of 36.8 grams for the calculations.
 
To plot out the flight path you then have to split the motion into its vertical and horizontal components with a little trigonometry (don't forget gravity in the vertical - 9.8m/s) and run the equation for each interval of time you choose. I did the calculation every 1/3 second, one could increase accuracy by decreasing the interval. Anyway, I just applied the deceleration as constant within the interval, which is a source of error, but actually makes the calculated range more conservative. Once you figure the new velocity, you can plot the position at the end of the interval. Then just repeat. It's a little messy and really time consuming, but the next best thing if you, like me, don't know calculus.  
 
In the end, you can just plot the horizontal and vertical positions on a scatterplot to get a visual representation of the theoretical flight path.
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #17 - Jun 19th, 2012, 1:22am
 
Here is Matthias slinging simulator (at least I hope it works)
 
Seems to have uploaded. Could somebody download and try it please.
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Dilyan Ganev
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #18 - Jun 19th, 2012, 2:30am
 
Bummer...It doesn't work for me(runtime error)
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ArchaeoMan
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #19 - Jun 19th, 2012, 9:05am
 
I get a runtime error if I make the ellipsoid field blank, but otherwise it runs great! The numbers are fairly comparable to what I'd gotten by hand, but this is WAY faster. I'll have to check what value I used for fluid density, then maybe the numbers will come out closer.  
 
(Oh, and I forgot about fluid density in the drag equation above here.)
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #20 - Jun 19th, 2012, 1:31pm
 
wow - so now we just need a graphe showing miles per hour instead of metres per second. Smiley  
 
And tennis balls decelerate so much because once you factor in the hairs they actually have a massive surface area and corresponsing huge drag effect. Plus they should be spinning a lot faster from a sling than from a tennis racket.  
 
Soooo, can we calculate (I say 'we' I mean you lot Smiley ) force of impact for the different projectiles based on weight, area of impact and speed at termination point ?  
 
That would be a very useful chart.
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Masiakasaurus
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #21 - Jun 19th, 2012, 2:27pm
 
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 19th, 2012, 1:31pm:
wow - so now we just need a graphe showing miles per hour instead of metres per second. Smiley

Why? That would be bloody useless. Wink
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 19th, 2012, 1:31pm:
Soooo, can we calculate (I say 'we' I mean you lot Smiley ) force of impact for the different projectiles based on weight, area of impact and speed at termination point ?

That would be a very useful chart.

We can approximate it, but the elasticity of the projectile and the target play a big role in impact force.
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wanderer
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #22 - Jun 19th, 2012, 2:33pm
 
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 19th, 2012, 1:31pm:

Soooo, can we calculate (I say 'we' I mean you lot Smiley ) force of impact for the different projectiles based on weight, area of impact and speed at termination point ?

That would be a very useful chart.

 
The force of impact depends not only on the projectile but also on the target. Slinging a stone into a mattress generates lower forces than the same stone hitting a rock cliff, or someone's head.
 
You need to have an idea of either the distance or the time it takes for the projectile to stop, then you can make some estimates.
 
If we can decide on some standard targets eg. supported heavy plank of wood, might be able to make some guestimates.
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #23 - Jun 19th, 2012, 2:53pm
 
Quote from jlasud on Jun 17th, 2012, 11:10am:
I appreciate your effort for calculating all this.Great job Yurek! also 51 m\s with tennis balls and a 75cm sling shows,that you have a very powerful\fast slinging style which i know already Cheesy but it's good to know the exact numbers too. I'm not surprised that the tennis ball looses velocity this quick.
I'm very curious what launch speed would you get from a long sling~120cm or what you'd use for distance with thin cords and very small pouch,and very aerodynamic lead glandes (of your prefered weight).About 80m\s to max 90 m\s would be my bet.
At 30m they wouldn't loose speed,maybe like 1m\s,but they hold their speed amazingly good.Even after 300-400-500m they still hit very hard.

 
I estimate that a 28gm glande, running with a mean drag coefficient of 0.2 (may be an overestimate but perfect alignment is hard) will lose half its kinetic energy in about 160m. Its velocity will have halved in twice that distance, 320m.
 
At 30m it will still  have just under 94% of its launch speed (assuming horizontal trajectory Wink).
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ArchaeoMan
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Re: Video Analysis of a Tennis Ball Flight
Reply #24 - Jun 19th, 2012, 8:24pm
 
Soooo, can we calculate (I say 'we' I mean you lot Smiley ) force of impact for the different projectiles based on weight, area of impact and speed at termination point ?  
 
That would be a very useful chart.  
 
...give me till the end of the week and I'll try to get a link to my thesis up. That is precisely what I'm writing part of a chapter on.
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