Slinging.org Forum - Conspiracy+Questions

Masiakasaurus

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #45 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 12:19pm

Quote from Dan on Jun 12^th, 2012, 11:28am:

Masi, it's still a finch. And regaurds to the sharks and stingrays, is it possible that all of these animlas have a common Creator? It would be expected that some animals look alike,

Like I said, it doesn't matter that it's still a finch. It's a new kind of finch that God didn't create at the same times as all the other finches. It's not just an old finch with a new beak because the old finches still exist and the two groups don't breed with each other. Ergo evolution.

Likewise with the stingray, if God made stingrays when he made the seas teem with fish then we'd find stingrays at the same depth in the ground as we find sharks and half-sharks but we don't. At the deepest we find sharks, a little higher up we find sharks and the flat headed half-sharks, and closest to the surface of the Earth we find remains of all three fish. We know that the ground is made by decaying remains and silt being piled on top of older remains, so what is newer is found higher up. This means that stingrays are newer that sharks. God did not make them at the same time as he made sharks and other fish. Ergo evolution where sharks become something other than sharks.

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Dan

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #46 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 1:12pm

If it makes you feel better, I do see your reasoning. However If God created the earth and creatures (which he did) he would have made sharks and stingrays on the same day, were they different, probably. But I am postive the shark was not a precuser to a sting ray.
If Evolution were true though, that would definteily make sence and it'd almost be textbook worthy.

In this case however, it's just God making creatures that look similar.

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Masiakasaurus Slinging.org Moderator mah-SEE-a-kah-SOR-us Posts: 4929 Gender:	Re: Conspiracy+Questions Reply #47 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 2:26pm Okay. I made my point about how we can tell that stingrays are newer than sharks. If it's unconvincing, it's unconvincing. I won't pretend to be offended or surprised.
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Woonilsra

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #48 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 2:58pm

Quote from Dan on Jun 12^th, 2012, 11:28am:

To quote Issac Newton, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

From what I've heard this guy is pretty legit, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his intlectual merit. Wink

I always have to remind myself that people can have marvelous ideas, but still believe in stupid things. Therefore, I try not to exalt or praise any one person, because regardless of how much I may like certain veiws of theirs, they can still have crappy ones. Because of this, I would be very careful to cite a specific person as reason to believe something.

So, let's be glad for what Newton contributed, but not regard him as perfect. I mean, he was all for alchemy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton's_occult_studies

It's like if I told you to praise slavery, because hypothetically, the same men that approved of it approved of intelligent design. It's ridiculous. So yes, I dismiss the idea of intelligent design, not due to those who agree with it, but due to its logical failure.

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Thunder Chief

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #49 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 3:11pm

Quote from Dan on Jun 12^th, 2012, 12:00pm:

1. Sorry about that, I was just thinking about Abraham from something else I was studying and it kinda traveled over, good catch.

2. God wanted his people to rest on the Sabath every week, not every few thousand years. It's a small factor though compared to the other verses in the Bible I posted earlier pointing to 24 hour days.

3. They aren't 'leftovers'. I was using an anology on how just because you don't need something dosen't it's not nice to have. The Sword of the Spirt (spripture) is my main weapon bro. It's the foundation of Christanity, it's my best reference for what I belive in. Not trying to 'zing' you (whatever that is), just giving some background as to why I belive what I do, and the Bible really helps with answering questions.

4. If you were a cray fish, you probably wouldn't have had much sucess getting to high ground compared to a deer. The Chip bag thing is a larger factor though anyway.

Please don't try to use the ad hominem. These aren't just my views (see the post with all the Christian scientists above), I am just representating and reflecting the views of the Church. And yes, I use a Christian Curriculum which really helps in being able to defend my Faith when I need to.

2. Why does it have to be a week? Why could not God have meant that he wanted us to rest 1/7th of the time?

3. Vestigal limbs aren't "nice to have." They're useless. Why do large snakes who get around just fine on their belly need nubs that resemble back legs?

3.5. It wasn't me you were throwing those lines at and that wasn't directed only at you. I know Woonilsra did it on page two with the "truth will set you free" line and you did it about midway down page three when you told us we have no excuse for not seeing God's qualities. I'm not asking that you stop quoting scripture, I'm asking that you use it like you're quoting an encyclopedia to back up your points, and not to preach at us.

I'm certainly not trying to use an ad hominem type argument at all. I apologize if it sounded that way. This was more of an aside. I believe your points are as valid as any other. While not immediately relevant, I was going to make the point that at 15, while you might be mature, you really haven't come out into the world. I just completed (as in an hour ago) my first year of college. I lived on my own, four hundred miles from home, for a year. I am a totally different person than I was going in. I have learned new things about myself and the world and dealt with issues I never thought I would have to go near. You are sequestered in a very small corner of the planet. All I'm saying is be prepared to change your views as you experience more of the world in which we live.

"you say there is absolutely no evidence for Creation and intelligent design" (you on the last page) -- I'm not saying anything of the sort. I am a devout(ish) Christian who just happens to believe it a little differently than you.

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Woonilsra Interfector Viris Spurii Posts: 1602	Re: Conspiracy+Questions Reply #50 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 5:14pm I'm going to try to be as frank and polite as I can. Dan, how thoroughly do you read our posts? I feel that you miss the main points your opponents are saying, or simply don't respond to them. I think it is you who should be reading deeper into posts, not us.
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xxkid123

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #51 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 9:53pm

Hey guys, lets leave this topic alone. Neither side is going to change opinions any time soon, even if God or evolution fell out of a tree and smacked us upside the head.

Here's a quote from my OP

Quote from xxkid123 on Jun 7^th, 2012, 9:25pm:

BTW, to those who disagree with evolution, let's just pretend like it is true, and we're simply examining it.

and here's a quote from bigkahuna, reply 13 of this thread.

Quote from bigkahuna on Jun 8^th, 2012, 9:02pm:

This is probably the only forum on the Web where this discussion could take place so peacefully. I am proud of all of you.

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Woonilsra

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #52 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 10:02pm

Quote from xxkid123 on Jun 12^th, 2012, 9:53pm:

Hey guys, lets leave this topic alone. Neither side is going to change opinions any time soon, even if god or evolution fell out of a tree and smacked us upside the head.

God smacks me and I'll convert on the spot. Well maybe after a thorough questioning of his/her characteristics and values etc, but you get the picture.

We're marvelous at keeping this civil, until direct insults are thrown, I support keeping this thread alive.

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"Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?"

"A sword is a weapon. The art of swordsmanship is learning how to kill. That is the truth"

"Dead!" I answered, and amiably "Murdered," the Hangman corrected me. "First the alien ... then the Jew. I did no more than you let me do."

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Masiakasaurus

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #53 - Jun 12^th, 2012, 10:12pm

Quote from Woonilsra on Jun 12^th, 2012, 10:02pm:

We're marvelous at keeping this civil, until direct insults are thrown, I support keeping this thread alive.

We're also marvelous at unintentional insults. That said, no one has crossed the line here as far as I'm concerned. Let's use kid's post as a reminder to keep up the good behavior. I've not seen any other group keep up this level of decorum while debating such contentious issues whether online or in person. Way to go people. *If I ever see any of you in real life I'll buy you a beer. Smiley

*Restrictions may apply. Not valid for anyone under the legal drinking age in the locality of purchase.

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xxkid123 Past Moderator Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel Posts: 4798 Gender:	Re: Conspiracy+Questions Reply #54 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 3:39am hrumph, no one went to Godwin's Law yet, so I guess I'll call it civil.
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Dan

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #55 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 9:24am

TC, I was refering to Bikwers earlier quote, where he said exatly that (there is absolutely no evidence for Creation and intelligent design). Regarding vestigual organs, lets say the appendix, It does stuff and it's not 'useless' http://askville.amazon.com/appendix/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8374996
I was kinda witnessing where you use the scripture to help explain things and clear things up, If I was preaching there would be more 'Hallelujahs' and 'Amens'. Wink

If you are a Christian and have accepted Jesus Christ into your life, Awesome! It's good to have you in the family, but remember you can't serve two masters. It's either All God or All World, there's no in between. I don't really know how your relationship with God is, but just try to keep that in mind and get in the Word.

Woonsilra, I actually do read every word of your posts, but to be honest I ususaly just skim the links and I don't really spend day and night contemplating evolution. And btw, that was a very reasonalbe question asked in a polite manner, well done.

If I have ever been 100% sure of something, this is it. I have absoultely no doubts about my faith and my belief. TC, my oldest sister is actually graduating college next year and she still belives the same thing I do, and my other sister is the same age you are and still has the same faith she had when she left home, except even stronger. I know a lot of people that have had a lot more 'life expiereinces' than you and belive what I do, but even more fervently.
I assure you, if there is one thing I won't ever compromise on, it's my Faith.

Having done a few of these (some were nearly 30 pages) I know we'll still get along just the same afterwords. This thread won't end with flying insults but with a major thread drift and some comic relief.

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1 Samuel 14:7

"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8

SALVATION: By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

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Bikewer Interfector Viris Spurii I love Slinging.org! Posts: 1408 Gender:	Re: Conspiracy+Questions Reply #56 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 10:13am I would just like to add that for those interested in an intelligent and well-crafted web page (it's been up for years) that addresses all the concerns laymen might have about evolution and refutes all the claims made by creationists.... Visit "Talk Origins": http://www.talkorigins.org/
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Greenman

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #57 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 1:37pm

We're marvelous at keeping this civil, until direct insults are thrown, I support keeping this thread alive. – Woonilsra

This is probably the only forum on the Web where this discussion could take place so peacefully. I am proud of all of you. - xxkid123

We're also marvelous at unintentional insults. That said, no one has crossed the line here as far as I'm concerned. Let's use kid's post as a reminder to keep up the good behavior. I've not seen any other group keep up this level of decorum while debating such contentious issues whether online or in person. Way to go people. *If I ever see any of you in real life I'll buy you a beer. - Masiakasaurus

Copy that. If i could have X amount of people over for a dinner and discuss this, i would choose you guys. I can see us sitting around a roaring fire drinking Carling Black Label and discussing this till sunrise, when we would use the coals of the fire to make 5kg's of bacon and 5kg's of scrambled eggs and a huge, piping hot pot bread, smothered in real butter and cream.

Kudos for the civility shown by everyone who participated in this thread.

From discussions on this very subject i've seen in my own land, this usually ends up in a fist-fight.

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Dan

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Re: Conspiracy+Questions
Reply #58 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 3:15pm

Greenman, I'm sure on the other side of that awesome fire would be some cooking clay glands too.

I don't know how much a kg is (my area of the U.S. is pretty anti-metric) but assuming it's a lot, that sounds great and now makes me very hungry.

Bikewer, this may surprise you, but I have seen most of the refuting points against Creation. Something that site misses (from the portions I saw) is the come back from the Creation side (which I have also seen).
It'd be like having a court case and stopping after the opposing side went once, either way it's not a full view of the evidence and dosen't give the other party a chance to come back.

You are all wecome to beleive what you want, I am a messenger. It is my duty as a Christian to spread the Gospel so that is what I am doing. I'm not sure if you think it's your job to convinve me that there isn't a God and there is no reason for life here on earth besides conincdence (and that our planet made an incredible amount of progress despite than complete lack of other resources on other planets), but it's simply not going to happen. In fact, every time we go through one of these discussions my Faith usually grows stronger becuase it reminds me how confidant I am and what my purpose is here, so I guess I should say thank you.

There is an element of Faith in Christainity. In fact, one of the 3 Christian virtues is Faith (I think hope and love are the other ones). In additon, as Romans 1 says, even though you cannot see God his works are evident for all to see. God really has been very evident in my life.

I just finished a great book about an hour ago called 'Unbroken'. It was written on an amazing survival story of a crashed airman in the pacific that survived for/ actually I'll let you read it yourself but there it is an amazing story of survival, resilianca, redemption and an awesome testimoney.

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1 Samuel 14:7

"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8

SALVATION: By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

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Woonilsra Interfector Viris Spurii Posts: 1602	Re: Conspiracy+Questions Reply #59 - Jun 13^th, 2012, 3:25pm Quote from Masiakasaurus on Jun 12^th, 2012, 10:12pm: *Restrictions may apply. Not valid for anyone under the legal drinking age in the locality of purchase. I'll take some nice jugs of apple juice or cider from the store.
Back to top	"Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?" "A sword is a weapon. The art of swordsmanship is learning how to kill. That is the truth" "Dead!" I answered, and amiably "Murdered," the Hangman corrected me. "First the alien ... then the Jew. I did no more than you let me do." IP Logged