Slinging.org Forum - Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Battle

jlasud

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #30 - Jun 20^th, 2012 at 2:28pm

C_A thanks for clearing up things

billhook..actually the worst weapon i've ever faced...it can pick roman shields like a forager picks strawberries ,hits,cuts,slashes,punctures like no other weapon...excellent tool
They told me that it used to be an agricultural tool for slashing branches. It's funny how most agricultural tools of the time could be used as effective weapons.Add to this that work hardened peasants,who used these tools all day long since childhood..of course not trained soldiers they were,but not the peasant with a stick image that tends to get depicted usually,either.
Here's an original roman (the historian told me ,the guy that uses it) found in Sarmisegetuza.Also some keys are visible and a Massive door hinge. Personally i don't see how the romans used a billhook in Dacia..they didn't use it as a weapon,and i can't imagine them,clearing branches of trees either,while in Dacia.

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perpetualstudent

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #31 - Jun 21^st, 2012 at 1:20pm

Slightly related: The roman shield's handle puzzles me. I just finished a book on the history of the roman empire and they, like you guys, note that there is a single bar horizontally placed in the center of the shield. The book argues that it made it easier to punch with the weapon. While Viking shields and other "sword and board" re-enactors tend to place that bar handle running vertically.

Since you've had experience holding them, what do you think of that way of holding the weapon? Are they equivalent? Is it because of the rather unique shape of the scuta?

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Caldou Funditor Offline Moving the world... rock by rock. Posts: 779 Picardie, France	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #32 - Jun 21^st, 2012 at 4:54pm The Celtics one too have a horizontal handle, and they are also long. They have some metal on the bottom, so they were offensive weapon first and after defensive. And that's easier to carry them on a walk, on the vertical. PS : Sorry, those senteces don't make much sense, but I'm somehow tired ^^
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Mauro Fiorentini Forum Moderation Offline Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3442 Ancona, Italy. Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #33 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 5:22am Caldou is right, it's easier to carry a shield (especially a big one like Roman and Celt's) if it can be hold on the vertical, it's much more balanced. Jlasud, remember me I've to send you a picture of a billhook found in my Region and dating to the 5th century b.C. Greetings, Mauro.
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Mauro Fiorentini Forum Moderation Offline Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3442 Ancona, Italy. Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #34 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 7:06am I knew I had already uploaded it here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338566873/15#15 last page, scroll down until you see it! Greetings, Mauro.
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perpetualstudent

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #35 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 10:37am

I can definitely see how it would be easier to carry with a horizontal handle but it seems that punching loaded with the extra weight would actually be easier with a vertical handle, less stress on the wrist that way. But then I've never actually held or handled one, so I could definitely be wrong. And the slight dabbling I've done with fighting in the youth SCA style didn't allow shields to be used offensively which was how the Romans preferred to use theirs. I defer to the greater experience good sirs Grin

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Mauro Fiorentini Forum Moderation Offline Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3442 Ancona, Italy. Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #36 - Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 3:15pm Actually, you're more experienced than me, for my fighting experience is related to the bow only Why don't you try to build a shield with a horizontal handle?! It would be a nice amusement, and you may tell us how it feels in fighting! Greetings, Mauro.
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jlasud

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #37 - Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 11:22am

perpetualstudent wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 1:20pm:

Slightly related: The roman shield's handle puzzles me. I just finished a book on the history of the roman empire and they, like you guys, note that there is a single bar horizontally placed in the center of the shield. The book argues that it made it easier to punch with the weapon. While Viking shields and other "sword and board" re-enactors tend to place that bar handle running vertically.

Since you've had experience holding them, what do you think of that way of holding the weapon? Are they equivalent? Is it because of the rather unique shape of the scuta?

Yep,it's easier to carry (99% of the time it's carried,the rest is fight) and in fights it's also easier to hold.It's heavy,at least 6kg. That being said,you can't really box with it,more like push it into the opponent,but that is done by holding the shield with the left and you push the gladius either on the upper or lower horizontal wooden reinforcement,depending where it has to be held.I couldn't see it being better to push with it,if it had a vertical handle.In all the other tasks it's better with a horizontal grip.Except carrying a spear held in the same hand with the scuta.Probably it would have been too heavy ~6kg+1-2kg Pilum in one hand

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jlasud

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #38 - Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 11:24am

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 5:22am:

Caldou is right, it's easier to carry a shield (especially a big one like Roman and Celt's) if it can be hold on the vertical, it's much more balanced.
Jlasud, remember me I've to send you a picture of a billhook found in my Region and dating to the 5th century b.C.

Greetings,
Mauro.

Yep.
Mauro,remember that you want to send me a picture of a billhook found in your region Wink

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Mauro Fiorentini Forum Moderation Offline Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3442 Ancona, Italy. Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #39 - Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 9:18pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 7:06am: I knew I had already uploaded it here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338566873/15#15 last page, scroll down until you see it! Greetings, Mauro. Eerrrr... Mauro.
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jlasud

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #40 - Jun 24^th, 2012 at 12:44am

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 9:18pm:

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 7:06am:

I knew I had already uploaded it here:
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338566873/15#15
last page, scroll down until you see it!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Eerrrr...

Mauro.

Ahham,cool,although i like the form of that i've posted,better. The one from 5th century BC,looked really small.Maybe it was made specially for fighting,so it's faster to wield?

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bigkahuna

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #41 - Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:47pm

jlasud wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 12:44am:

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2012 at 9:18pm:

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2012 at 7:06am:

I knew I had already uploaded it here:
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338566873/15#15
last page, scroll down until you see it!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Eerrrr...

Mauro.

Ahham,cool,although i like the form of that i've posted,better. The one from 5th century BC,looked really small.Maybe it was made specially for fighting,so it's faster to wield?

Or, maybe it was just made as a farming tool.

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Mauro Fiorentini

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Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat
Reply #42 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 12:58pm

Hallo!
Yes, the Roman billhook is better, and show the improvements in iron working that took place between the 5th century b.C. and the (I suppose) 2nd A.D.
The Picenian one was made for farming only, because it has been buried along with other farming tools: a hoe and an axe. Plus we have no evidences that the Picenians used other pole arms besides the spears.
Greetings,
Mauro.

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jlasud Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Programming stones Posts: 2358 Transilvania Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #43 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 3:27pm Thanks for clearing it up!
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Mauro Fiorentini Forum Moderation Offline Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3442 Ancona, Italy. Gender:	Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Reply #44 - Jun 25^th, 2012 at 4:25pm Thanks you for your picture When did the Romans arrived in Dacia, was it during the 2nd century? Greetings, Mauro.
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