Slinging.org Forum - Martial Arts recommendations

Thearos

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #30 - Jun 10^th, 2012, 7:14am

Quote from Rat Man on Jun 9^th, 2012, 7:45pm:

Grappling skills are extremely important when defending yourself in the real world. For many years martial arts training was mostly about striking with grappling an afterthought. Think PKA, for those old enough to remember that. It's good to see that times are changing and grappling finally getting its proper due.

The same remark was made in the C19th about the British army (I think by Hutton, the guy who wrote on swords, I think in his book "The Swordsman" where there is an appendix on grappling)-- too much boxing, not enough wrestling.

Conversely, here was a debate about this in the US army, a few years back. The new combatives programme was very grappling centred, because of BJJ influence: it favoured a lot of groundwork, some rather fancy (passing the guard, shrimping)-- that's how the new manual (FM 21-150) starts, whereas the older manual combined strikes and grappling.

Here's an essay on this:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA511484

Not sure where US army combatives stand now in this debate

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Bikewer

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #31 - Jun 10^th, 2012, 11:15am

When I was a kid in the 50s, wrestling was huge. "professional" wrestling, anyway. As kids, we didn't realize till much later that it had nothing to do with actual wrestling.
My background in grappling was through Judo; I learned the essentialls of groundwork and looking for the opportunity for a joint-lock through that discipline. Served me well a number of times in police work; as "resistings" invariably end up on the ground.
Still, the Martial Arts might have forgotten that any form of grappling existed. I was fairly heavily into things and reading several martial arts publications regularly when the nascent UFC hit the airwaves. Although confined to pay-per-view cable at first, thousands of VHS copies of the latest matches circulated. That's how I saw them... One of our officers had HBO and would tape the fights and we'd pass the tape around.
When the Gracie lads began defeating all comers... It was like a bombshell. All of a sudden, the MA press that had shown a cover article on Bruce Lee every other month or so couldnt' get enough of BJJ and grappling in general.
All of a sudden, forgotten grappling forms like the Chinese Shui Chao (spelling?) came out of the woodwork and everyone suddenly had to incorporate some form of grappling into their training.

Again, Bruce Lee had been prophetic... In The Tao Of Jeet Kun Do he shows illustrations of several grappling techniques and notes to himself to "look further into grappling"....

I don't think you can have a complete martial art without a grappling component. I recall informal sparring with lots of boxing-oriented guys in the army. They would stick out thier left for the "put it in the opponent's face" technique and I'd just grab the wrist. They had no idea what to do.
Time and again we watched Royce Gracie slip the "strikers" punch or kick and do a simple takedown and then the match was over.
When big, powerful grapplers began to learn some striking techniques the MMA world started becoming what it is now.

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Dan

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #32 - Jun 10^th, 2012, 12:09pm

IME, the most important ground work drill you should practice is standing back up. Fighting from the ground sucks in real life. While you are waiting 20 seconds with your choke or arm bar, all of your opponents allies will be kicking you in the head while you lay with all of your appendages foucused on one attacker.

Takedowns are excellent, but once your opponent is on the ground with the wind knocked out of him and a minor concussion, run, or maybe take out another guy. Don't try some fancy hip lock that requires you to be all twisted around your attacker.

In MMA wrestling works well because it's only one on one and the fight can last a long time.

There is also the statistic that '90% of fights go to the ground' so most people assume that grappling training is madatory. No. This just means that after a fist fight, at least one of the guys ends up on the ground and that both guys don't just give up while they are on their feet and walk away.

If you can fight with you hands standing, use the same techniques on the ground and stand up as soon as possible.

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perpetualstudent Funditor Slinging Rocks! Posts: 609 Gender:	Re: Martial Arts recommendations Reply #33 - Jul 12^th, 2012, 5:57pm Yeah, I know. Thread necromancy is frowned upon in polite circles. I did though have a follow up question that I didn't think worthy of its own thread: about how much a month (or per session, whichever is closer to your experience) would those of you with martial arts background consider to be a fair price?
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Woonilsra

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #34 - Jul 12^th, 2012, 6:27pm

I'm cheap, so 40 to 50 a session sound reasonable to me.

I emphasize practicing on your own a ton if you do take lessons. Practice what you learned during the lesson after the lesson, and make sure to perfect your technique. If the lessons cost a lot, and if they don't regardless, put the money to good use.

When I took Muay Thai, it was 105a month, and there were three lessons a week. Which was an awesome deal in hindsight. I could make 11 or 12 lessons a month, so it could be less than 15 a lesson.

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Masiakasaurus Slinging.org Moderator mah-SEE-a-kah-SOR-us Posts: 4944 Gender:	Re: Martial Arts recommendations Reply #35 - Jul 12^th, 2012, 11:44pm Atlanta Kali Group charges $10 per session, with the first few on the house.
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Dan

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #36 - Jul 13^th, 2012, 8:47am

I'm pretty sure my school is $80 a month for once a week $90 for twice a week (most common) and $110 for unlimited which orignially was up to 7 classes a week but now is only 5 classes a week. So a little less than your average music lesson.

Again as Woosilra said, if you are going to take lessons, practice is vital. I think my family and I have to remind the kids class at least once every couple weeks that they have to practice to make progress. It's just like taking music lessons, you aren't going to get anywhere if you only play during the once a week lesson.

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1 Samuel 14:7

"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8

SALVATION: By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.

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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Posts: 2171 Gender:	Re: Martial Arts recommendations Reply #37 - Jul 13^th, 2012, 8:34pm I have been doing Wing Tsun for quite a few years. Just got my primary instructor level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tn4IiZbgGc&feature=related The video shows some of the better guys in my school. My sifu is the one wearing white. they are totally badass.
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maine1

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #38 - Jul 17^th, 2012, 4:52pm

My background is Juijutsu, where i picked up many good skills. It was an "Old school" type of place, and we did 3 hour classes, with lots of ukeme.( an ignored but crucial skill. has saved me a few times)
Other MA's came and went, studied where i could whenever i could.
Then i discovered a few things: The Filipino martial arts, and James Keating.

I am at the point that i would rather pay for private instruction, then go ho
me,train, discover and develop on my own.
That method seems "slower" by some standards- but its really not.

I have worked Corrections for about 14 years. The simple techniques people think nothing of are of great value, but also need time to learn.

Seems alot of guys just want to learn "ground and pound' and use that as a solution to everything.They will not last.

Keep in mind that whatever art you study, if it is true to your heart, it will get in your blood, and you will need to channel that urge in some way for the rest of your life. Learn whatever you can, immerse yourself deeply into it, but know when to move on and get new material. Don't let stagnation, or a foolish comercial- minded teacher spoil this activity for you.

Also look into Keatings knife training- there is none better.

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peacefuljeffrey

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #39 - Aug 9^th, 2012, 8:10pm

I took out "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" from the library because this thread made me curious about it.
I found it to be IMPENETRABLE.
A large portion of it (crudely drawn diagrams, mostly) are labeled in Chinese with no translations!
The rest of it is just a disorganized mishmash of Bruce Lee's musings.
It's true that his widow introduces the book by saying that it is not a manual for learning Lee's art, but ... still ...

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squirrelslinger Interfector Viris Spurii Slinging is my life... Posts: 1614 Gender:	Re: Martial Arts recommendations Reply #40 - Aug 10^th, 2012, 12:02am if i have my treated wood staff i have gotten to a point when sparring where i can deflect strikes with the point of my staff. after nearly 5 years of constant sparring/slinging, you get pretty good with a piece of Ironwood and a sling.
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Donnerschlag

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #41 - Aug 10^th, 2012, 2:34am

Quote from peacefuljeffrey on Aug 9^th, 2012, 8:10pm:

I took out "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" from the library because this thread made me curious about it.
I found it to be IMPENETRABLE.
A large portion of it (crudely drawn diagrams, mostly) are labeled in Chinese with no translations!
The rest of it is just a disorganized mishmash of Bruce Lee's musings.
It's true that his widow introduces the book by saying that it is not a manual for learning Lee's art, but ... still ...

It helps a lot if you've already studied JKD prior to reading it. Trust me Wink

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Bikewer

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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #42 - Aug 10^th, 2012, 7:38am

The "Tao" was only published because it's all they had. It's only an outline for a series of comprehensive books Lee had planned to write.
After Lee's untimely death the family decided to publish what he had put down.

If you can find them, his several-volume "fighting method" instructionall books cover much of his thought.

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