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Martial Arts recommendations (Read 1150 times)
perpetualstudent
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Martial Arts recommendations
Jun 6th, 2012, 8:19am
 
This came up in the thread about exercise. MA is a great way to get exercise among other things and it seems that many of our members have some training, some in multiple disciplines.  
 
So what have you been trained in (or want to be trained in)?  What future plans do you have for MA? What do you recommend for somebody considering getting training? and (optional) about how much should you expect to pay a month?
 
I've had a couple of years training in Tae Kwon Do and Krav Maga. So really, next to nothing. I know enough to be dangerous to myself.  Personally, I really liked that balance in training. TKD was more formal training (technique, sparring, forms) while Krav was more self defense oriented (a lot of padwork and drills). The two mentalities were very different and I think the balance was very good.  
 
I'd like to get more training, but it is expensive. I'd be interested in continuing TKD or Krav, but I've also been interested in beginning Filipeno MA or Kendo. Really, I'd be happy to train in anything I just don't have the disposable income for it right now.  
 
For somebody interested in getting some MA training I tentatively agree with Jet Li's character in fearless that all the arts are equal, what matters is the skill of the practitioner.  So if you have your heart set on learning Brazilian Jujistu and no one near you teaches it, go ahead and begin training in something else. Also, if the gym advertises MMA and that's it, think long and hard before going there. MMA is popular right now and there are plenty of idiots running MMA gyms that don't really have the knowledge or skill to be teaching. I'm sure there are also good programs, but be careful.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #1 - Jun 6th, 2012, 8:54am
 
I teach Kenpo a few times a week and I have just enjoyed this style so much. It's the ony true style I've ever done (I've done some knife fighting stuff seperately but not a paticular style). I've been doing it for 8 years and I learn something every time I go in.
 
My basic suggetions: If you want to learn how to really fight in a month (espicially against guns and knives), take Krav Maga.
 If you want to do high kicks like you see in the movies, participate in tournaments, and count in Korean, take Tae Kwon Do.
 If you want to be able to punch a brick wall without hurting your hand, take Karate.
If you want tradition and forms and fancy silk belts, take kung fu.
If you want to wrestle for sport (not for street fighting), wear Tap Out clothing, and have great stamina take BJJ.
If you want people to be able to take you seriously, don't take ninjutsu or capoeira.
 
If you want to become a proficient Martial artist with extensive knowledge of body mechanics, fast hands, practical fighting concepts, and an endless amount of fighting princeables, take Kenpo
 
 One thing I really like about kenpo is the lack of exercise. It motivates you to be healthy and fit, but I don't want to pay $80 a month for someone to make me do knuckle pushups as I count in korean, because I can do that on my own, free. We foucus more on fighting then on fitness. If you do want to take kenpo, try to find a school that teaches the 24 system or 'Ed Parkers' Kenpo.  
Here is a demo,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlsv9x-u-tY  
And another video with ed parker on one of the cocepts of Kenpo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2R_af3jYDY&feature=related
 
I can say that Kenpo is different than all other martial arts as it way more tehcnical and it teaches you how to think, not just what to think. And we don't break boards either becuase of the rairity of being asaulted by lumber. Every art has something to teach, kenpo just has more.
 
In any martial art, there are a lot of studios that wouldn't benefit you so be selective.  
 
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Bikewer
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #2 - Jun 6th, 2012, 10:34am
 
I've been "involved" with martial arts for a very long time; since my days as a skinny little kid in elementary school in the 50s.    
There was essentially no MA training available then.  Judo was just beginning to get the public's attention, via returning servicemen from Japan and other Asian locales.   Karate would not show up till a bit later, at least in terms of public awareness.
I started fooling around with "ju-jitsu" techniques I found in an old book written by a British fellow who had worked with the police in Hong Kong.   My friends and I would practice the simple locks, holds, and escapes illustrated in the books.
 
When I was a teen, we began to get some public awareness of other arts, and I started working from the early books provided by the somewhat-quirky Bruce Tegner.
Bruce had some minor fame as a West-coast instructor who taught the Nelson boys.  (That's as in Ricky and David...)    I didn't realize it then, of course, but good 'ol Bruce apparently made up a lot of stuff out of whole cloth and his books are considered rather humorous now...
However, I dutifully practiced the various strikes and kicks and also began working with striking posts and heavy bags and the ball-on-a-string target.
Even at that stage I was quite handy with my feet, fast and accurate.
 
In the army, I was exposed to individuals who had actually had some real training.  That led me to realize how far afield some of my home-schoolin' stuff was!
Still, I was able to get in some practical sparring with a wide variety of folks.   I also got the excellent book on the Shorinryu style that was put up "officially" by that particular school in Japan to "preserve the art".
 
I also started working with bladed weapons.
 
When I got out of the army and started my police career in '68, I was appalled at the lack of "defensive tactics" training.   Essentially, you were encouraged to whack people over the head with the nightstick you were supposed to buy.
I had already had some exposure to Asian stick-fighting techniques and was not impressed.
 
Like many other officers wanting some more practical work, I went looking for my first commercial martial arts training and there wasn't that much available.  I settled on a TKD studio that was near my home and had a really good instructor.   Rose to brown-belt level and could have taken the black-belt test at any time when I realized that TKD was going in an entirely impractical competition-oriented direction and left that style.
Got exposed to Jeet Kun Do and through that Filipino martial arts. Attended the big travelling seminar put on by Dan Inosanto, Stephen Hayes, and several other stylists... That would have been in the mid-80s.
Very impressive.
Spent a lot of time working with Lee's JKD principals and Filipino stick and knife work.
 
Now, getting on a bit and with creaky joints, I'm more inclined to let my "tools" work for me if necessary.  Glock-fu trumps all...
 
Getting long, here... But:
 
For the individual wanting to get into MA, I would first ask him/her what they wanted.   Physical exercise?   Learning an skill/art?   Competition and trophies?   Practical self-defense?    
So many different arts and styles nowadays, and so much competition.   Also, so much nonsense...
People promoting all sorts of tradition-based "woo"....Phony instructors out to get your money, "mall ninjas", etc.
For the individual wanting to learn a skillful art, and who has the body type, the modern, gymnastics forms of Kung Fu and their various weapons sets are spectacular.  Totally useless for fighting, but the skill level required is extreme.
For practical fighting, Krav Maga, Kenpo karate, FMA (Filipino arts) or JKD are all very good.   Finding a real, qualified JKD instructor is not easy.  It's amazing how many "first generation" pupils Bruce Lee had; almost as many as attended Woodstock if you get my meaning.
Before signing up for JKD courses, obtain and read Lee's "Tao Of Jeet Kun Do" and his fighting method books (Usually obtainable from your library).  See how well the class is adhering to Lee's principals.
 
I actually saw a post on a martial-arts forum about a JKD "school" where the students were doing "forms".
Lee would be spinning in his grave.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #3 - Jun 6th, 2012, 10:50am
 
Quote:
If you want tradition and forms and fancy silk belts, take kung fu

 
Kinda dismissive of a country that has couple thousands years history of martial arts.  
 
Kung fu just means 'skill in something' (very rough translation.)
Does not neccessarily refer directly to martial arts.  
 
Most wushu systems do not have silk belts. And just about every martial skill under the sun can be found in one or other of the many chinese schools of martial arts.
 
Don't dismiss what you obviously know nothing about. Just makes you sound like someone with insufficient experience to judge anything.  
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #4 - Jun 6th, 2012, 10:57am
 
 My first instructor was John Korab, who was also one of Joe Lewis's first instructors.  Korab is my vague, second hand Bruce Lee connection.  I was extremely lucky to have stumbled across him.  At the time all I knew about him was that he was this really cool Karate guy.  I had no idea of his pedigree.  He taught us traditional Tae Kwon Do along side of a system he'd invented himself called Street Fighting.  We also learned a little boxing. The Tae Kwon Do was good for teaching discipline and building our strength and flexibility but as you know it might not be perfect in a real fight for your life; hands held low, no lateral movement, etc..    Street Fighting was basically very dirty fighting to keep you alive in a situation.  It had nothing to do with honor or sport.. it was some foul stuff.  Techniques for eye gouging, where to bite to incur the most damage, etc.. that sort of thing.  
    This was an excellent base for me.  After that I learned a bit from many different styles from many different people in the army.  We learned some Judo in MP school or AIT.  I learned some Kung Fu from the guy who bunked under me in MP school, Mickey Price.  He was a 6th degree black belt.  I still have a big scar on my chest from his training.  I learned some Hapkido in Korea, but I found it to be more flash than substance.  In all fairness, that may have just been my instructor, Major Song, from the South Korean army.  I picked up a lot of other techniques from free sparring with who ever would spar with me. Lots of guys were into martial arts in the service.  
   Also, being an MP, I'd occasionally get the opportunity to use what I'd learned while performing my duties.  We were taught to use minimum force necessary, but it was still very helpful being trained.
   It was a very well rounded education.  Sadly, I don't know where Korab is now.  He'd have to be near seventy, I guess.  I don't know if anyone teaches his Street Fighting.  I hope someone somewhere does because it was excellent.  
   What Dan wrote is oh so true: "In any martial art, there are a lot of studios that wouldn't benefit you so be selective."
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #5 - Jun 6th, 2012, 12:00pm
 
Quote from curious_aardvark on Jun 6th, 2012, 10:50am:
Quote:
If you want tradition and forms and fancy silk belts, take kung fu


Kinda dismissive of a country that has couple thousands years history of martial arts.

Kung fu just means 'skill in something' (very rough translation.)
Does not neccessarily refer directly to martial arts.

Most wushu systems do not have silk belts. And just about every martial skill under the sun can be found in one or other of the many chinese schools of martial arts.

Don't dismiss what you obviously know nothing about. Just makes you sound like someone with insufficient experience to judge anything.

 
 
Sorry, It was a bit of an over simplification. The things you said are true, however, I have been to several tournaments and every Kung fu school there (probably seen a dozen schools at the various tournaments) had silk belts and fancy forms, hence my post. I apologize if I was vauge about 'Kung fu' my hope was that you just assumed it ment martial arts and not taking a painting class or making tea, so now you definitely know.
   It's the same way that TKD is way better in South Korea than it is here in the states, I'm sure kung fu is better in China and that not all schools have the fancy belts. I've heard Wing chun has some pretty great stuff in it, as do all martial arts, and almost all of it can be applied to street defence. Some styles (like krav) are just more direct than others.
 
Don't get me wrong, Kenpo has it's fair share of traditon and forms too, but most styles of Kung fu are quite emphatic about them.
 
There is a lot of cool stuff to learn from Silat too. Unfortunately in most of the eastern martial arts there is a bit too much eastern mysticism for my taste. Hence why I prefer and suggest Kenpo or Krav.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #6 - Jun 6th, 2012, 12:17pm
 
  I think that with Kung Fu or any style of martial arts, the quality of the various schools differs wildly.  The guy who introduced me to Kung Fu was very impressive.  I sparred him every day for two months and never once scored a point.  He was that good.  I never saw him wear a silk belt.  
   But that's not why I'm posting right now.  I found someone who is carrying on Korab's teachings:
http://www.dojos.com/martial-artstc/index.htm
   If anyone lives near Delaware and wants to learn some real chit check this out!!!  If this is anything like what Korab taught I can't recommend it strongly enough.  If absolutely changed my life.
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Reply #7 - Jun 6th, 2012, 12:50pm
 
Cold Steel's "Warriors Edge" does it for me.
 
In S.A. you never get jumped by one or two attackers. Minimum 4. Using your fists just wont work. So i found Lynn C. Thomson's "Warrior's Edge".
 
It combines fencing, modern boxing and modern military hand to hand combat. None of that "cut him 6 times" nonsense. If you pull a knife in a fight, you're fighting for your life and you can finish your attacker/s with a single cut or thrust. This makes sense in SA.
 
It teaches everything from what knife will work best for your needs and starts with footwork, working all the way up to strategy and how to use an opening or create one.
 
What makes this perfect for me is that you can adapt the same training to use a stick or a pencil or a nailfile or anything that is straight, pointy or has slight heft.  
 
If you can get the 3dvd course and someone who takes it as seriously as you do, you can learn a great self defense style in a year.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #8 - Jun 6th, 2012, 12:57pm
 
Tho not a commonly known martial art but any form of sword skill (European Martial Arts) can be beneficial. Having slung a "stick" in the SCA and similar groups has given me a skill with anything from a dagger up to a pole arm in size.  
 
http://www.bellatrix.org/school/
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Reply #9 - Jun 6th, 2012, 2:46pm
 
RM, I've also seen some really impressive military Tae Kwon Do guys that taught practical techniqes, but unfortunately, that's usually not the case around here. Again as we agree, there is a large variety between schools.
 
I was actually going to make a very similar post to Greenman's but I forgot. A knife is an incredible equalizer, in almost all of the cases here in the U.S. just revealing the fact that you have a knife and know how to use it will defuse the fight and the attacker will usually just run away cause you aren't worth the trouble.  
 
I also have 'Warrior's Edge' and it is probably the best knife education system I have ever seen. However, you absolutely have to have a training partner to figure out speed and body positioning. The only thing that you should try that they don't say in the tapes is the 'fight for your life' drill. 90% of attackers in the U.S. will run after the first cut (if they haven't run already), you should still be prepared for the other 10% though. The same way a chicken with its head cut off can keep running, a damaged attacker can do an amazing amount of damage even after a major artery is cut. For this drill, just pretty much have a guy come at you and fend him off and hold him down for a good 15sec. Generally enough time for him to pass out from his wounds. Or if you cut his spinal cord the drill is more like 5sec. This is opposed to the usual knfe sparring which is pretty much taking turns hitting each other's hands with the blade.
 
 IMO martial arts training can really complement a good knife fighter. I still like just being able to fight with just my hands if I need to though.  
 
Again, it depends on what you personaly want and need.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #10 - Jun 6th, 2012, 4:41pm
 
Regarding "Kung Fu"....  Maybe 20 years ago, the publication "Inside Kung Fu" ran a series of educational/historical articles that were quite good.
There are over 2000 known schools or styles of Chinese martial arts.   Some of these are "complete" systems with standardized forms, organizations, etc.  
Some merely consist of a few techniques that were often kept secret or taught only to a few.
 
China has officially tried to distance itself from it's rather wild and wooly past and now discourages the teaching of practical fighting arts.  Instead, they have lumped a number of techniques and styles into what they are calling "traditional arts".    This consists of flashy, gymnastic forms and spectacular weapon sets that also generally include music.   Not practical fighting methods at all but very demanding; they require a great deal of physical skill.
 
The commercialized "Shaolin" temple training bears about as much relationship to any actual historical fighting arts as foil-fencing does to medieval swordplay.
 
The Chinese have traditionally separated "external" arts (that require muscular strength) and "internal" arts which are supposed to function with that mysterious "chi" energy.   A lot of Chinese training also involves the intake of traditional herbal medicines and concoctions which are supposed to promote health.
(note...I do not believe in "chi" or "Ki")
 
The martial-arts scene that existed in the early part of the 20th century is the stuff that so many of those kung-fu movies are made of.   Instructors challenging each other to fight for prestige and students, unsanctioned underground fights between schools, kung-fu fighters hired as security guards for all manner of things...  Involvement in politics and revolutions.... Recall the "boxer rebellion" with the Society of harmonious fists and all that.... "boxing" was what the Westerners called Chinese martial arts back then.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #11 - Jun 6th, 2012, 4:50pm
 
I have about 4 years of formal training in Yoshukai Karate and Kobudo (a derivative of Chito-Ryu) from a 1st generation pupil of the founder, Katsuo Yamamoto. Even got to meet the Grandmaster himself in one tournament I went to. Cool
 
When my joints got bad enough that I had to quit I bought a cane and a Cane Masters DVD to continue my training in Cane-Fu. which lasted for about 2 years.
 
I later picked up a booklet called "the Art of Japanese Self-Defense Stick Fighting" because I recognized most of the basic techniques as being the same Hanbo Jutsu that we used in Yoshukai Kobudo for bokken kata.
 
Now that I've lost some weight and new medicines are making my joints almost normal again I'd like to pick up one of the Filipino Martial Arts such as Eskrima. There's just something satisfying about thwacking someone with a stick. Cheesy
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #12 - Jun 6th, 2012, 8:17pm
 
The Filipino arts are nice because they essentially teach principals. Theoretically, every movement or strike or deflection is equally applicable if you are unarmed, or armed with basically any weapon.
It's said that a trained fighter can pick up literally any weapon and use it effectively.   Maybe not in the particular style, but effectively.  
 
Dan Inosanto has an excellent book, "The Filipino Martial Arts", which I recommend.  Clear, well written, and Inosanto is a good teacher.  I had the pleasure of meeting him at the seminar I mentioned.
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #13 - Jun 6th, 2012, 10:12pm
 
I remember watching a documentary about Filipeno Martial arts and it made the argument that because they are an island chain nation, they never had a large population. This in turn meant that it was impractical to have constant training for the majority or a large standing army and so the MA that developed were meant to be quickly taught and learned when it was necessary for large scale conflict and built into it force multipliers. That I really like. I would love to get some of that type of training.  
 
I've also heard very good things about Jujitsu as it was developed for use in war, so very little flash and much effectiveness. I've mentioned before "meditations on violence" by Rory Miller who is a vet who has worked as a prison guard for a number of years and so has real experience with violence and his "home" martial art is Jujitsu.  
 
I guess I see a purpose in both the forms and "realistic" styles. Ideally I'd like to balance the two, I really liked that the same instructor taught me TKD and Krav. Working the forms, practicing the strikes and stances training my body movements. And then working the pads, using the movements without thought as much as trained and directed instinct (+ conditioned responses).
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Re: Martial Arts recommendations
Reply #14 - Jun 7th, 2012, 8:27am
 
If you really want to expand your knowledge on the FMA stick fighting. I'd suggest looking for a few seminars. You'll probably start out doing flow drills for a while cuase that's just what they always do, but then you can get some really cool disarms and things you never would have thought of that work really well. My mom and oldest sister went to one in pittsburg with Grandmaster Cacoy (one of the original 12 guys from Doce Pares) and came back overflowing with information and were really excited with all the things they learned. I would think if you did a few of these, it'd be better than any book or DVD.
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SALVATION: By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.
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