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Survival Atlatl Darts (Read 2235 times)
Atlatlista
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Survival Atlatl Darts
Apr 24th, 2012, 5:53pm
 
So, in the other thread on sling vs slingshot, I made this post:
 
Quote:
There are definitely some tricks to it. If you live in an area with a lot of bamboo, I would recommend making a "female" atlatl. Here is a pattern for one:
http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/designs/bamboo-d.htm

These work very well with a little bit of experience. For the dart, I would make something like this:

http://sensiblesurvival.org/2012/04/13/make-a-river-cane-knife-and-spear/

The trick is, make sure you have the fat end in front and the skinny end in back. This shifts the weight forward, to alleviate some of the problem of not having a tip attached, as the weight for a tip is very helpful when it comes to atlatls.

If I were living in a wooded environment that was more hardwood-heavy, I'd go for a design like this:

http://www.primitiveways.com/atlatl_branch.html

To that, I would take a sapling, and again, make sure it was heavy end in front. I'd carve myself a sharp tip or fire-harden it, and that would pretty much be that.

If you have some duct tape on you, then this is always an excellent option and solves a lot of range problems:

http://sensiblesurvival.blogspot.com/2011/12/fletching-arrow-with-duct-tape.html

And if you have access to glass bottles or appropriate rocks, you can do this:

http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/stone/bottle.html

To get the bottle bottom off perfectly in a no-tools environment, I use this method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmXkwyOrERM

Generally, I can get the bottom to pop off with the first strike. It breaks pretty clean most of the time, only minor touch-up needed to get a perfect circle to start with, and not much overhanging pieces.

Generally speaking, on an average walk in the woods, I have access to the glass bottles but not the duct tape. On a camping trip, I always have duct tape, and can usually find old glass, or at least quartz rocks that I can get a sharp edge off of (not great for knapping, but it works). So, most of the time, a survival dart for me would involved knapped glass affixed to the shaft with duct tape, and duct tape fletching as well, which makes a big difference for very little effort.

 
I was inspired today to make some more darts, including one of the tip-less bamboo designs I was talking about.  I figured I'd post pics here rather than derail the other thread further:
 

 

 

 
I also managed to make a simple dart with an obsidian point.  (Excuse my lame flintknapping)
 

 
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Morphy
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #1 - Apr 24th, 2012, 6:03pm
 
Good job Atlatlista.  
 
My first thought upon looking at the pics is "I wonder if she put the tip near a node intentionally to give it strength?" Which sort of begs the question... what if the very point was on the node? Would that give it increased durability?  
 
Also, you may have mentioned this or not, but have you ever hunted with atlatls?
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Atlatlista
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #2 - Apr 24th, 2012, 6:38pm
 
The tip near the node is for strength.  I wouldn't put it too much closer, because you'd have to thin it out anyway to make it sharp.  This way, there's enough room to resharpen the tip if it becomes dulled, and the reinforcement node is still there.  It's kind of like a "tanto" point in a way.
 
As to the hunting, I've never hunted an animal with any weapon in my life.  I want to though.  I kind of like to eat meat, and I feel it's oddly dissociative never to have killed the animal I've eaten.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #3 - Apr 24th, 2012, 6:56pm
 
Nice job Alina, now go get some animals with these darts  Smiley
On a side, your knapping looks good to me, did you retouch that point?
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Atlatlista
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #4 - Apr 24th, 2012, 7:04pm
 
Quote from Mauro Fiorentini on Apr 24th, 2012, 6:56pm:
Nice job Alina, now go get some animals with these darts  Smiley
On a side, your knapping looks good to me, did you retouch that point?
Greetings,
Mauro.

 
Yeah, it's a bifacially retouched point.  I'll have to get a good camera at some point to show you.  It has quite a few errors and is an older piece that I had lying around, but it fit pretty well and it's sharp.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #5 - Apr 24th, 2012, 7:19pm
 
I can't see errors on the stone, but may I suggest you to flatten the wooden tip? It will give you better penetration if you remove the extra wood to obtain some sort of conical end instead of that one  Wink
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Mauro.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #6 - Apr 24th, 2012, 7:21pm
 
Yeah, I was planning on thinning the point some more.  There's no scale in the picture, but the point is about five inches long at this point, slowly tapering back to the full width of the bamboo.  I was a little worried about shaft drag, but I had to balance that with durability.  So, I may thin that out a bit.  The actual tip itself is very thin though, not much more than a couple of millimeters thick.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #7 - Apr 24th, 2012, 7:44pm
 
It may be different for you, but my experiences with arrows and atlatl darts suggest that a more aerodynamic dart has greatest chances to survive to impacts. The fact is, that I never used canes to make darts; nay, I used cane, but with inserts of different wood at both ends.
And I didn't fix these inserts so that if something had broken I was able to recycle the other parts of the arrow/dart.
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #8 - Apr 24th, 2012, 7:52pm
 
Quote from Mauro Fiorentini on Apr 24th, 2012, 7:44pm:
It may be different for you, but my experiences with arrows and atlatl darts suggest that a more aerodynamic dart has greatest chances to survive to impacts. The fact is, that I never used canes to make darts; nay, I used cane, but with inserts of different wood at both ends.
And I didn't fix these inserts so that if something had broken I was able to recycle the other parts of the arrow/dart.
Greetings,
Mauro.

 
I'm not sure what you mean by this.  In my experience, aerodynamics and durability are always a balancing act.  A thinner point possesses less drag, but is much weaker.  So, you have to make things as stiff and strong as possible, without them throwing like a brick.  That was why I made the point thin, but did it near a node for additional reinforcement.  If you're hunting game the size of a deer, I think you need to hit it with a pretty substantial dart, and a very sharp, but strong tip.  At the current level of sharpness with that dart, if I held it point down and dropped it on my bare foot, it would penetrate.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #9 - Apr 24th, 2012, 8:03pm
 
Sorry for my bad English, I meant exactly what you understood  Smiley
Anyway, as long as the dart work, then it's ok; mine was just a tip to decrease drag. Decreasing the size of the wood also mean that less wood is exposed to impact, and this increase its life. You could also obtain this without thinning the dart's end, but by twisting the rope that keeps the point causing it to assume a more aerodynamical shape (I mean, completely covering the wood's end with the rope and then keep on twisting it arount the point - this is something of which we have archaeological evidences here but I can't remember from which context).
I didn't mean to hurt you by the way, you do great works with your darts in my opinion  Smiley
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Atlatlista
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #10 - Apr 24th, 2012, 8:09pm
 
I think I get what you're saying now.  Maybe.   Grin  With these darts, I can't actually thin them out on the whole, as it would expose their hollow inner core, unlike a hardwood dart.  Is that what you were after, or am I misreading you again?
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #11 - Apr 24th, 2012, 8:27pm
 
Nope, it's exactly what I meant, you're a cool interpreter  Grin
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #12 - Apr 25th, 2012, 9:28am
 
I might try a foreshaft if I was after larger game. They make it a lot more durable and if it breaks you can just cut the shaft down and but in a new foreshaft.
 
Here's my "survival atlatl" I made it in a day because I really wanted this survival kit (It was a skills challenge) and I won  Smiley . So It worked out okay, I still prefer my sling though.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41aNdbibREA
 
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Atlatlista
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #13 - Apr 25th, 2012, 1:41pm
 
I've got one with a foreshaft.  For the dart in question, it was way too thin to make a foreshaft viable.  I'm sort of iffy on foreshafts in general.  Theoretically, friction should hold them in, but I'm finding they're finicky and sometimes need more work than just making a new dart.  I think once you get a good method, they're pretty clever bits of kit.
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Re: Survival Atlatl Darts
Reply #14 - Apr 25th, 2012, 9:13pm
 
nice job with that, trust me, that flint knapping is awesome. you do not want to see mine
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