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Story from Reddit (Read 1609 times)
Woonilsra
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #15 - Mar 3rd, 2012 at 3:21pm
 
My personal comments are in bold

http://www.horizonacademy.us/faqs.html

4. Q: How often are visits allowed?
A: Visits and phone calls are allowed with the teen reaches the appropriate level of status as an earned privilege.
Appropriate level of status sounds like no one is allowed to reach it

7. Q: How is the family involved in the student’s program?
A: Each teen is assigned a family representative that is in contact with your teen throughout the day. Weekly phone calls are made by your family representative to you, to update your teen’s progress. In time, therapeutic phone calls are made for the purpose of working out family issues. Parents and teens communicate by letter as often as they like. A series of self-growth seminars, which are nearly identical to the seminars the teen participates in, is provided for the parents in several locations throughout the country.
Sounds like the kids do have issues with their families, major issues requiring "therapeutic" calls specifically for family issues. And seminars for parents?

8. Q: Once I make the decision to enroll my teen, how do I get them to Horizon Academy?
A: Your admissions representative will assist you through different options for getting your teen to the school. Each situation is different. Some students will come voluntarily, while others will not. We let you determine what you feel is best for your child.
"others will not" come voluntarily. Gives plausible reason to believe kids are taken in the night. You can determine the best way to get your kid to the school? Doesn't sound like a place kids want to go to in any sense of the word.

http://www.horizonacademy.us/character_development.html

Daily Schedule

 The following schedule is a representative sample of Horizon Academy's daily schedule. Boys and girls are typically educated and fed separatelyWell that's no fun =(, and actual times vary with seasons and by gender. All students attend school five hoursSomehow I'm not jealous compared to my 7 hour school day per day, Monday through Saturday. The classroom is open and staffed from 7:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m.

7:00 Wake up, shower, dress, prepare for the day.
7:30 Breakfast
8:00 School
9:30 P.E.
11:00 School
12:30 Lunch
1:00 Leisure: games, reading
2:00 Dorm Meeting, aka “Review”
3:00 School
4:30 Motivational (audio, video or group reading)
5:00 Devotional, quiet time
6:00 Dinner
6:30 Structured Activity
7:30 Educational Video What kind of education?
8:30 Journaling, reflections, and daily information sheet
9:30 Prepare for shutdown Really, shutdown? Not just "bedtime, but shutdown? Sounds like a freaking prison

End of quoting the website.

Sounds sketchy to me. Though I doubt the school would want to use precious money to send students to Jamaica. I find this hard to believe. More likely that this person has exaggerated the actual situation. But I do see little pockets of what could be entirely true.

CALL TOLL FREE: 1.866.524.3620
Anyone want to do it? I might.
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"Come on you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?"&&&&"A sword is a weapon. The art of swordsmanship is learning how to kill. That is the truth"&&&&"Dead!" I answered, and amiably "Murdered," the Hangman corrected me. "First the alien ... then the Jew. I did no more than you let me do."
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Morphy
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #16 - Mar 3rd, 2012 at 11:55pm
 
Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Mar 3rd, 2012 at 6:50am:
Well, now I'm shocked.
I'll try to explain my feelings and excuse my poor English, I'll try to be as much schematic as possible.

- 1: people catch me at night? Because my parents fear I will run away? Then it's my parent's fault, they're obviously unable to control me.

This is spoken like someone whose never been the parent of a wild teen. I see no real answers of how exactly you would force a teen to be "controlled".  How is this forcing your control on them any different than what you think these facilities do?

- 2: these Institutions are expensive: therefore, only riches can hope a way out of the drug? And what about poor families? They can die of Aids? (even if, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, at least poor kids can sleep without problems).

No, some pay out of their own money, others are court ordered there. While still others the place works with to try and find a financial solution.

- 3: the use of force to correct kids? Drug addition is a DISEASE, more than a CRIME: would you treat this way a cigarette smoker? An alcoholic? A kleptomaniac?

No where, at all, did I ever state that the use of force was how they treated addiction. Ever. I see many over exaggerations in the posts against this place, some are so far out there it's unbelievable. Corporal punishment was used in Jaimaica as a way of punishing a teen that was being out of control. As in a teen that was bullying others and beating up on them. And NEVER used in the place I was at. Any 1st year med student will tell you, you cannot beat addiction out of someone...

- 4: I haven't understand how Jamaica is involved here. Is it a last resort? Why? What happens there? (and on a side: if you need a "last resort", well then it's quite clear that what you're doing in these Institutions does not work so well).

See above for the first question. As for your comment, I suggest you look at the success rate of any rehab. It does not work so well either. Drug abuse only stops when the addict wants to stop badly enough. The point of the place I was in was to get them at least a period of time where they could be sober and learn therapeutic tools to stop self-medicating. Some of these kids start hardcore drugs when they're really young. They have no clue what they are getting into, and pretty soon they are so far gone it's almost impossible to stop.

If that kid was a problem because his therapy lasted 2 years, well then you should have tried to put ME in therapy instead. I wonder how many of these therapists would still have all their teeth.

Now take that same attitude and apply it to a teen that is in gangs and addicted to meth and you see why the parents have absolutely no other option. Either abandon them to their fate or do something drastic. You don't really think some of these teens didn't beat on their own parents did you? And America is so screwed up often times if a parent tries to defend themselves and they leave any marks on the teen, then the teen claims abuse and the parents are the ones that go to jail...

Sorry, I absolutely don't want to be controversial, but things have changed since the last century.

Yep, it's called therapy and I've seen it change lives for the better. I've loved some of these guys like they were my own family. Please don't act like I would want to bring them harm.

Asylums have been closed and crazy guys now freely walk on the streets, and this did not lead to a crime growth.
Drug addicteds are frail persons and while it's easy to overwhelm them with an organized force, it's surely hard job to gradually accompany them out of their disease.
It's a lesson of humility.

Overwhelmed by force? This is not boot camp. No one spent more time "gradually accompanying them out of disease" than the people I worked with. Every week I worked at least one 16 hour shift on top of my other work and ever other week I worked at least one 24 hour shift on top of my other stuff. And the therapists and shift leaders put us to shame. Once they turn 18 they are free to walk. Until then, their parents have the final say. Parents have to make rules for kids. That may be hard to understand but that's what good parents do.

If a kid has drug problems, you have to follow him because he's looking in the drug for something he's missing elsewhere.

That's exactly what they taught them. And much more.

You can't force him to stop, you have to find something he loves more that drug.

Right, and part of that must be themselves. They ultimately must love themselves enough to stop. I don't mean a selfish love, but they can't carry around the pain they do. And the only way to do that is to help them understand whatever self-loathing/depression/anger/bitterness/low self esteem etc that is actually causing their need to use drugs. No one anywhere is under the illusion that you can force them to stop. As soon as they get out they can start right back up. But many don't because of what they learned about themselves.


You can trust me, my cousin was a drug addicted, he spent his nights sleeping in niches and cemeteries. We spent YEARS helping him and he now has a respectable job at the shipyard.

I know more about addiction than I would like to Mauro. I hope you can understand I am not speaking from ignorance. But never have I insinuated you can beat an addiction out of someone or force them to stop forever and I find that very frustrating that someone as level headed as you could read so much into what I wrote that is not actually there.

Mom worked at a lawyer's office and there were many cases of drug addictes. NONE of them have been forced to stop, but many choose to follow some rehabilitation, and 85% of them managed to stop using drugs.

That's good to know. I am not aware of any drug addicts that have been forced to stop for good either, I'm not sure such a thing is even possible. Sure they might have had to stop while they were in the facility, but as soon as they were out they got to choose and many of them chose for the better. Some went right back to the crack houses, at least we made a difference in some lives though. I would do it all again if it only helped one of them.


None of them had to be picked up at night using SS methods.

You mean the classic SS method of telling them their parents are sending them to a live-in rehab and then asking where they want to stop for breakfast?


Greetings,
Mauro.


I'm sorry I am a bit frustrated by this thread. For some reason I feel the need to respond to your post as well Mauro. I really don't expect anyone to actually want to read it. But this is the facts from someone who has real actual experience with these places, so at least the truth is out there for anyone who may end up reading it...  
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #17 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 2:20pm
 
Morphy,
first of all, I also have had experiences with drug addicts, since my cousing was an addict. Plus 3 friends of mine died of overdose. So I know what I'm talking about.
Second, I'm sorry you feel frustrated by my post, but as long as your Institutions (and similar ones) are allowed to promote themselves, I am allowed to disagree with their methods, and try to promote my ideas as well.
Now, to your answers:

- 1: again, I had a wild teen in my family. My uncle was unable to control him because he was often at sea, while my aunt was often drunk. More, I didn't talk about "forcing my control" on a wild teen. You said that. Actually, we gave our cousin more love than ever, and with help from a psychologist we've found that he had problems with his father. We had not to force my cousin to go under therapy, he was willing to cooperate because we explained him very clearly where eroine was leading him to.

- 2: and how often are these solutions found? What if someone can't pay? Better leave this matter because it may lead to a discussion about granting free health services, which is something we're used to since the Middle Ages, here in Europe.

- 3, 4: by "force", I didn't mean corporal punishment. The idea that such a punishment could be allowed in these Institutions is simply so insane I didn't think about that. By the term "force", I actually meant that you (parents) "force" your kids to join these rehabilitations. Why don't you pick up a cigarette smoker in the middle of the night and force it to follow a rehabilitation as well?
And, the fact that there's not a 100% successfully rehabilitation does not justify the possibility that a guy can be sent to Jamaica.
About what you write here Quote:
Drug abuse only stops when the addict wants to stop badly enough. The point of the place I was in was to get them at least a period of time where they could be sober and learn therapeutic tools to stop self-medicating. Some of these kids start hardcore drugs when they're really young. They have no clue what they are getting into, and pretty soon they are so far gone it's almost impossible to stop.
I totally agree, and am actually quite happy that you specified this.

- on wasting therapist's mouth: I was ironical and I meant that 2 years are too few to rehabilitate someone. My cousin is 39 now, he begun smoking pots when he was 11 and using heroin when he was 14. He finally gave up at 21, and gave up drinking only 5 years later. Rehabilitation is a very long journey.

- others: I'm glad you specified some of the things that you forgot to clear in your previous post. I was very sorry to read these things from you, because I always had a good impression of you. Perhaps you was ironical and I misunderstood your writing, but at last we tried to clarify things.
Even if I still have my doubts about your Institutions (and still don't agree with many of the methods adopted there), perhaps it is due to our different culture and backgrounds. I therefore will stop writing here and will greedily read what you Americans of "both sides" have to write about this topic, and will try to comment on it only once I'll have a clearer view.
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #18 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 4:09pm
 
If I were sent to a place like that I'd bide my time, go with the flow, play nice, until someone let their guard down then I'd kill one of the )(*&)(*'s who kidnapped me.  I'd strangle him with a cord, cut his throat with a piece of broken glass, stab him in the back with a steak knife, whatever, but I'd take someone out, and if you think I'm joking you don't know me.  I'm very glad my parents never did that to me.  It would have been a BIG mistake.  I guess what Morphy says is so, that there's two ways to look it it and the parents might be genuinely concerned for their teen's well being, but kidnapping someone is some serious sh)t and there are some people you just don't want to do that to.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #19 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:00pm
 
For some reason this topic really hit me hard. I'm about done with this thread but I just wanted to say thanks to Mauro for your thoughts. And everyone I guess for that matter. But thank you Mauro especially for hearing me out and responding on what I said. I gave your reply a lot of thought and appreciate where you're coming from.  

It's very easy to judge others situations and compare them to our own. I find myself doing so more than I should. We're all different though.

Mauro I am glad your cousin made it out of addiction. It's a tough road. I know that as well as anyone. I'm glad he lived long enough to for that matter. Not everyone does. Peace.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #20 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:12pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 4:09pm:
If I were sent to a place like that I'd bide my time, go with the flow, play nice, until someone let their guard down then I'd kill one of the )(*&)(*'s who kidnapped me.  I'd strangle him with a cord, cut his throat with a piece of broken glass, stab him in the back with a steak knife, whatever, but I'd take someone out, and if you think I'm joking you don't know me.  I'm very glad my parents never did that to me.  It would have been a BIG mistake.  I guess what Morphy says is so, that there's two ways to look it it and the parents might be genuinely concerned for their teen's well being, but kidnapping someone is some serious sh)t and there are some people you just don't want to do that to.  


This^

Morphy, I'll say I overstepped it by calling it something like what Hitler did. But that makes it no better. I've got nothing against helping kids. You think I don't wish that the kid next to me would stop trying to bully me? Would stop smelling like beer and smokes? Would quite trying to screw every girl he meets? That doesn't mean I'd send them to a place like Horizons.

I don't mean to say that I disagree with educational institutions where kids can get 1 on 1 constant help from a special instructor or therapist. But the threat of taken away to some place to be brutalized because you can't fit in with society? No way.

When kids are arrested, they are arrested, taken to a jail, told what they are arrested for (Habeus Corpus), and given the right to trial by a fair and non affiliated judge with an impartial jury. They are then given to a state certified Juvenile Delinquent Home, where they are provided optional rehabilitation. From there they are given an amount of time each day towards near unlimited communication, generally on a computer or with a phone. Of course they can't go onto pornagraphic sites, etc; but they are generally allowed a certain amount of mobility. On holidays they are given parole to visit parents and friends. I don't see that happening here.

I don't see why you should care if they think the world revolves around them. Sure they might be annoying, but locking them up with the threat of Jamaica is just ridiculous.

Serial killers are usually given life sentences, where the threat of being brutalized by the state doesn't exist, or being taken to a place where they can be tortured. They are also given just trials, provided a certain amount of legal protection (lawyers), and cannot and will never be tortured unless evicting arrest (what happens by other inmates is another matter).
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #21 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 5:53pm
 
Morphy, I'm sorry if my reaction offended you.  You know that I respect both you and your opinions.  If the kid who wrote the article was truly sent to a place like that because of his religious beliefs and no other reason, that's just beyond all moral decency.  It angered me to think that an intelligent human being, teenager or otherwise, could be legally treated in such a manner.  If I were placed in a similar situation I really just wouldn't give a damn and I'd strike out at my oppressors as best I could by any means available.  No one has the right to do that to another human being.. there's just plain no justification for it.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #22 - Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:21pm
 
Not mad at you at all RM. I would be really pissed too if the only reason I got sent to a place like that was because I didn't have the same spiritual beliefs that my parents had. Hard to make a judgment call based on only one side of the story though. I've been manipulated enough by working around teens to know that it is not advisable to come to too solid a position based on only one person's side of the story. Shoot I was a teen myself at one time, like we all were and I was a little turd.  Wink
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #23 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 9:32am
 
Very true.  There are almost always two sides.  I wasn't the best teen in the world either.  I gave my parents fits.  If what this kid wrote is true, though, he has every right to be outraged.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #24 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 10:31am
 
Maybe I missed something.  Didn't the original post on reddit talk about a kid who was taken in the night to some undisclosed school because he told his parents he was an atheist?  Huge difference between him and some wild-a$$ delinquent crackhead in need of rehab.   There are schools, academies, and facilities that deal with problem teens and drug related issues but there are no organizations that kidnap kids because they they want to be an atheist.  Just like there are no satanic cults, yet you hear about them all the time.  This is uban legend stuff.  Man, this thing set you guys off like rockets.............
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« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2012 at 10:42am by fletch_man »  

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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #25 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 11:11am
 
fletch_man wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 10:31am:
Maybe I missed something.  Didn't the original post on reddit talk about a kid who was taken in the night to some indisclosed school because he told his parents he was an atheist?  Huge difference between him and some wild-a$$ delinquent crackhead in need of rehab.   There are schools, academies, and facilities that deal with problem teens and drug related issues but there are no organizations that kidnap kids because they they want to be an atheist.  Just like there are no satanic cults, yet you hear about them all the time.  This is uban legend stuff.  Man, this thing set you guys off like rockets.............

So in your opinion is this a total fabrication or just a gross distortion of what really happened? I think it's based ons somebody's experience, not necessarily the writer's, but with enough nonfactual elements to place it in the BS category. You do hear some horror stories, like kids dying at some "boot camps", but that's pure physical abuse, not a situation like the one described.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #26 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 2:37pm
 
HT, I agree with you completely.  There have been instances right here in Arizone of kids dying from abuse from these so-called boot camps.  These are intervention groups for troubled teens and teens who are involved with drugs/alcohol/problems with the law/etc.  

 The original article states that a kid told his parents he was an atheist and he was whisked away in the night to some religious re-education camp.  That's the difference I'm talking about.

 Can you imagine how fast an organization like the ACLU would mobilize if they got the slightest whiff of a religious re-education camp that children were taken to against their will?  The lawsuits would be as grains of sand upon the beach.

 Even if the kid was legit, he may have been taken to a rehab/boot camp type deal because he had other problems that he perhaps neglected to mention.  The ultra-religious right, or whatever you want to call them, are hugely sensitive to these kinds of issues.  Issues with the Catholic Church and the Warren Jeffords thing with the Mormon Church are the kinds of unwanted attention that most religious organizations don't want. And the clincher is: who pays?  Where does the money come from?  Donations from people who want little atheists taught a lesson? 

   Suffice to say it would be stupid to go around kidnapping kids because they didn't want to go to Church.  'Course, stupid is as stupid does.................................
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #27 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 7:38am
 
IN england recently a couple were convicted of killing the womans brother because they believed he was possessed by a demon. They beat him and drowned him in a bath tub.
They are both starting very long jail sentences. This is not an isolated incident either. There have been numerous case in the papers in recent years, and the practice is endemic in africa.

The acts that people - of all beliefs - are prepared to commit on their own kith and kin in the name of their beliefs, really do defy the belief of a reasonably well adjusted human being.

Obviously there are going to be exagerations on both sides. But do I believe this kind of institution exists ? Yep.
I've seen and heard of much worse.
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Re: Story from Reddit
Reply #28 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:10am
 
CA, It's true.  The same things happen in this country as well.  We've had children die because parents wouldn't take them to a doctor in the belief that faith alone should heal them.  We had two women kill a girl by replicating the birthing process entwining her in a sheet and she died of heart failure. One kid died from being hazed trying to join the drumline at a big school.  We just recently had a woman kill her daughter by making her run for three hours because the little girl ate a candy bar.  I'm astounded by people's behaviour.  And I think it's worse now.  Maybe because of the availability of up to the minute world wide news, but, still, I think it's gotten worse.  Eventually we all have to decide where we stand.  And stand there.  What's that old Chinese curse? "May you live in interesting times"...........................
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